WarriorConcept

[quote name='Jgoods45' date='04 April 2010 - 10:10 PM' timestamp='1270433432' post='2248213'] Then the person(s) involved would be punished by our government following our rules and regulations with zero interference from foreign entities. [/quote] I just had a chuckle considering what happened with the last huge Athens tech raid.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='04 April 2010 - 10:07 PM' timestamp='1270433260' post='2248206'] Oh dear admin, you people really are that desperate to make a point aren't you? First off, there is a huge difference between bullying and attacking someone relatively at your strength, who has the ability to fight back and do damage, by yourself. It's not bullying to attack someone your own size. However it is bullying to attack an alliance of ten with one hundred people and then extort them for reparations. I will never endorse that, but don't tell me a 1v1 is bullying. [/quote] Like I said, and for some reason you've been missing the point, every case will obviously not be the same and we will be responding accordingly to the circumstances, as stated in the very pact itself.

I dare you to attack any of our nations defending an unaligned.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='04 April 2010 - 10:02 PM' timestamp='1270432920' post='2248200'] Yes they can, but no one's going to engage in tech raiding if they know they will be completely leveled to the ground. People raid to alleviate boredom for a short period of time, not to be ZI'd. [/quote] Just like a bully decides to beat up a kid after school to relieve boredom only because he knows he won't get in trouble.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='04 April 2010 - 09:32 PM' timestamp='1270431149' post='2248167'] 1. I'm expecting the nation to fight back. I know, what a terrible concept! Most 1v1 raids (significant raids where the raider and defender are both above ten nation strength) will end after two ground attacks. No cruise missiles, no nukes, no planes, no navies. Two ground attacks. Very little technology will be captured in this raid. Now if the defender chooses to fight back then the war will end when the defender chooses to give up. No reps or extortion or any of that crap. [/quote] If that is where it will end then that's all good. We do try to push for peace to begin with anyway. At the same time we will also offer the nation whom was attacked rebuilding help and a temporary home to be safe in. [quote] 2. Okay, but then what happens when diplomacy fails? [/quote] It all depends on each situation specifically. Mostly the unaligned raiders will most likely be hit, and the one raiding whom are aligned will not be. However the optional part is there, so anything really can happen and each alliance does have their sovereign right to fight any alliance if they feel it necessary. With all that said, the first attempt will always be diplomacy, whether aligned or unaligned.

[center][img]http://i50.tinypic.com/op2oly.png[/img] Good evening Planet Bob. I am pleased to announce our Fourth Edition of Celestial Being Logs, a publication designed to keep the general public abreast of the ongoings regarding Celestial Being. First off I'd like to announce thanks to Molon Labe for being our first mass alliance buyers. They understand and respect our position regarding raiding and I'm looking forward to getting to know those guys better. They've definitely proven themselves over the past years to be very principled as well, something which I learned while fighting against them during the Karma War in which I gained tons of respect for them. As a notice to other alliances out there we are still selling tech (I'm buying ) to only nations that do not tech raid. If you're in an alliance that raids it's fine, as long as you yourself don't raid. If you do raid during the tech deal we will be asking for all the money paid back or just holding the tech. While I know this might be controversial, this is our stance and entering a tech deal with us you should be or will be informed of the circumstances involving the deal. Secondly, I'd like to congratulate Walford of Walfordistan on his promotion to Meister of Celestial Being. When he joined he brought with him massive amounts of experience and ideas regarding how best to help the unaligned raider and has since helped immensely. He has earned this position and myself and Kulomascovia both agreed with his promotion and expect great things. Lastly the most major announcement, the Freedom of the Seas Pact has finally been announced. We've been working closely with our fellow signatory alliances on this for some time and are proud to finally put it all on paper and out to the public. While I'm sure it will be, and has already, brought some skepticism I'm confident we will handle this better than any predecessors whom have done something along these lines. There's a big comparison going on between CNARF, but that is a bit off as the execution in which we handle the cases are much better than an indiscriminate attack and hiding behind an alliance. One alliance that has shown helping out unaligneds works is the NPO. While we do not exactly have the resources that they do, we understand that theirs and our method will work out better than CNARF and Yellow #5 because diplomacy will be one of the key actions we'll be taking, especially with aligned raiders. Our goal is ultimately to help those guys whom are mostly new and just get attacked and their citizens, land, infrastructure, and technology destroyed for the simple musings of a few bored rulers. We consider, and have considered since our alliance's formation, that to be a lowly thuggish act and have since then as well pledged to help in any way we can. Since our formation we've donated tens of millions in aid to tons of nations whom needed help rebuilding and offered them temporary protection while providing them the knowledge that is required to thrive on Planet Bob. While we know the impact that we ourselves can make is perhaps just a tad bit small, with the Freedom of the Seas Pact we know we're not alone in our efforts and also that any little bit helps. Just because it seems a daunting task does not mean we should not try. It does not mean we should not speak up. It does not mean we should not act for our beliefs. With that being said I encourage anyone, be it alliance or individual, to drop by our forums and see what they can do to help out the cause. Anyone can make a donation for the raided victims, and alliances can also read over the pact and perhaps consider joining as well. It is our sincere hope that more people will pay attention the bullish actions being done on this Planet that is driving countless new nations away, and perhaps get them to act as well. Thank you for your time, and good night. Forums: http://z10.invisionfree.com/Celestial_Being/index.php?act=idx IRC Server: irc.coldfront.net IRC Channel: #celestial End Log [/center]

Was definitely in the works for a long time. Glad to see it go through and Vanguard will be remembered.

[quote name='Godwin' date='04 April 2010 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1270430932' post='2248159'] Sweet, it's this crap again... OH TEH NOES TECH RAIDING IS EBIL AND BAD STOP IT! ...Yeah, have fun with that. [/quote] We will.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='04 April 2010 - 09:21 PM' timestamp='1270430448' post='2248146'] A lot of "tech raids" are declared for fun. Most of the time the only time a raid is more profitable then a tech deal is when the nation is abandoned. [/quote] Yes I'm sure the nation whom just got hit will understand his citizens, land, infrastructure, and technology was destroyed just for "fun" and carry on with his day without turning away from this planet. [quote] Umm no. Your leader just said it would extend to all raiders aligned or not. Maybe it's just me but that seems to me it will extend to all raids. [/quote] I said anyone who got raided under our Applicant AA will be hit no questions. If you're referring to the pact, well now you're assuming it's a guarantee that the raider will be hit. If the raider is in an alliance you'll want to note the diplomatic part of the pact when dealing with raiders.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='04 April 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1270430137' post='2248135'] Because basically you're making one of the few ways a nation can vent his pent up nerd rage into taboo. [/quote] Your argument is really getting silly now.

[quote name='New Frontier' date='04 April 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1270430055' post='2248132'] Which is where the CNARF comparisons come in. [/quote] We're not immediately attacking any raider indiscriminately, aligned or not. Therein was the biggest mistake CNARF made. Well that and hiding behind GATO. This is us standing up for what we believe in and putting our alliance out there for it.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='04 April 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1270430042' post='2248130'] Okay that's fine, but the "manner best available" will differ from time to time and there's a huge difference telling a raid victim, "Hey comrade, there are people out there who love you. Here are some alliances that aren't into raidng, brother." and a different time telling a raider he's got one day to peace out or face the wrath of the FoS. [/quote] Of course it differs from time to time, everyone is different and so are circumstances. Oh, I don't see what's wrong with telling a raider his thuggish actions might actually bring about some karma and get him hit.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='04 April 2010 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1270429819' post='2248124'] sometimes even unaligned have friends. plus, there is the fact that a victim won't always have 3 unaligned hitting them. most likely they will have only one unaligned with 2 aligned. that is the issue with this that i have, it don't matter if FoS does get rid of the unaligned raider. all that will happen is some aligned raider will jump in immediately. [/quote] We don't just get rid of the unaligned raider. We inform them of their options regarding what alliances are out there while offering them temporary protection. The AA they can use for protection is Celestial Being Applicant. If any aligned raider decides to attack someone wearing that AA, then they will be handled.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='04 April 2010 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1270429790' post='2248122'] Then tell them their options, you'll hear no complaints from me. But don't go around threatening to attack the raider and give the defender money. [/quote] Why not? Why should these guys whom are knowingly raiding and stealing from an individual whom has done them no wrong get that kind of courtesy? We'll be helping them the best way we can, and in most circumstances the only thing these guys will understand if force, as proven in this planet's history.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='04 April 2010 - 09:08 PM' timestamp='1270429692' post='2248117'] We're dealing with unaligned raiders. [/quote] The Freedom of the Seas Pact deals with all raiders in the manner best available, not just the unaligned.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='04 April 2010 - 09:06 PM' timestamp='1270429585' post='2248111'] Then you join an alliance learn !@#$ and come back six months later and make your own. [/quote] I'm sure that's something that's surely going through a new nation ruler's head as he's just been pounded away by one of those "alliances" for no reason at all.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='04 April 2010 - 09:03 PM' timestamp='1270429414' post='2248103'] Jesus, I know I've repeated this like fifty times but all your problems would go away if you asked for protection from a larger alliance without joining said alliance. [/quote] And how many alliances give protection like that? And how many of these brand new nations would know of whom to turn to and how to act? Our aim here is to give them said knowledge and help when possible. All we're doing is putting into practice what you're recommending right now, just on a pro-active scale.

It's great to see this finally announced. Been working on this for a while and gotten to know a lot of great people and alliances and to finally have it rolled out formally makes me proud. Trying to relate this to CNARF isn't that credible. While I see where you can make a comparison, the way we're going about this is quite different. If raiders feel they have the right to raid anyone whom has done them no harm, and they most certainly have that right, we have the right to help them out.

I dare you to try and get your money back now

[quote name='tobbogon' date='31 March 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1270087755' post='2242801'] I'm just a lowly templar, I am not as informed as you all wish i would be, anything i were to tell you would not be correct. I pretty much know as much as you do. But i feel like i need to contribute to the thread, because it makes me all sad that people are bashing us. Yeah, some stupid stuff was done, and by no means am i condoning it, but srsly, you guys are just lumping me and all the other dudes together with Ram, whom you all dislike. (Kind of like that show The V. Where Ryan Nichols is a 'visitor' posing as a human, but he isnt like all the other visitors, who are out to use and destroy human life, he's part of the Fifth Column, some rebel group. Not saying I'm part of a rebel group working to destroy The Gromlins. This analogy has gotten far too... yeah. Just saying, dont lump us all together.) ^More nonsense for your hungry mouths [/quote] You seem like a good guy. I wish you luck in trying to have an alliance that better represents your beliefs.

[quote name='Lennox' date='31 March 2010 - 08:58 PM' timestamp='1270087090' post='2242783'] I'd like to see a Gremlin who actually adds something to this thread instead of beating around the bush or making baseless claims. [/quote] He added his opinion and the fact that the people in his range are in peace mode or full on slots to refute the notion that their only capable fighter is that 400 ns guy. Really, I get the argument against gremlins in general but that wasn't a post to rage at.

Disappointing showing by gremlins. Hopefully this all gets resolved quickly and my friends in CnG can move on from this war, as well as the world in general.

Shame to see, but I'm sure you guys will enjoy being in MK (again ) Also I win

Our guys need to find the back of the net before I sub them (Greenland United)

Sounds great