Unknown Smurf

I see your points and I think you see mine. I'll bow out of the topic here. Just poorly handled by all parties involved. Edit: seems you've posted in the time it's taken me to post mine. Those screenshots were all over IRC and I'm sure they didn't think it was a big deal as logs/screenies are posted regularly during wartime. And I call them stupid on the daily. I do support them however as they do learn from their mistakes and they are one of the handful of alliances that are different in this day and age.

He was masked as a full member because he applied. MInc putting him as a full member wasn't them making a statement in this scenario because Atlas never made them aware that this was a scenario!

That is true, which is why my first line was that LH screwed up. My point is should the rest of MInc be rolled for the actions of two people?

First and foremost I will agree with you LH screwed up. Hitting an entire war weary AA is overkill for the situation at hand though. Those bolded facts are simply not true. In order: Fact: Hardin left Atlas and joined MInc. Fact: He told LH that Atlas was going to declare Fact: LH asked if he had any proof and hardin provided those screenshots because atlas didn't change his mask (and for the record the screenshots are from a Gen membership thread, not a gov forum as people have been saying) Then your final fact. I'll give you some other facts: Fact: Atlas did not approach MInc for an explanation Fact: Atlas decided to declare on the alliance as a whole instead of the guilty parties. Is MINC protecting that guy? Atlas could have requested to kick him out if they so chose to. But they didnt. They saw a way to win a war on the backs of TSOs (and doom squads) allies and circumvented CN norms

War Jesus is an agreement between nations, and doesn't always I'm sure doom kingdom has no issue with that as they do the same thing on a regular basis, the most recent and obvious example being their reformation of doomsquad to "honor" a treaty in a war that was already heavily favored in the war. The word of the day is opportunism.

I understand your perspective but it still doesn't address my question: do you believe MInc was maliciously spying on you or just receiving information from a disgruntled member? Do you believe hardin was passing information to MInc prior to leaving atlas or do you believe he chose to go to MInc because he was mad at you and decided joining MInc would piss you off the most since they were the ones you were discussing warring with? Your sixth point referring to my post on opportunism clearly was. If you're gonna play dumb, do it better.

Ha. I remember hearing about this 2-3 years ago. I thought it was a joke. I will fulfill my duties however I doubt it will amount to anything.

I think meth and Dwight/SNXs misunderstanding stems from the fact that SNX supported meth potentially holding a Senate seat before the govt overhaul and foundation of BC. I really hope something as trivial as that isn't misconstrued by the brown sphere as a hostile action.

The joke is that yall are too nice

Nice zinger man. Did your mom not hug Bros not high five you enough while you were growing up? The validity of the CB aside, I'm trying to understand Atlas' perspective here. While spying and receiving/posting have both been used as valid CBs in the past, they are two different scenarios and I'd like a clarification on the matter.

I wonder if atlas calls in allies to help with a micro that was just rolled. :popcorn:

Wait. It seems were all working on different sets of facts here. Where am I wrong: 1) Atlas discusses hitting MInc because of nothing else happening on cn but their war 2) member gets frustrated at atlas and joins MInc bringing screenshots 3) Atlas declares on MInc Or is it: Atlas sees MINC has screenshots and believes that MInc intentionally put a spy in Atlas' alliance in order to ..well spy on them?

Looks like opportunism to me.

I agree with myth... Roll UnknownSmurf 2015!

It's easily. Just do some [url=http://www.cybernations.net/declarewar_form.asp?Nation_ID=537801&bynation=537801]clickity[/url], clickity click and pew pew pew. But how isn't one of the Ws. It's who what where when why. Is that not a common thing people are taught? I've like founded my life on it :psyduck:

..I thought they were protected by AI?

You forgot where. :v: Welcome. I thought getting involved in affairs that have no concern to them was DKs M.O. not NGs.

I'm not saying their actions were reasonable, I am saying they were necessary to prevent a potential SNX disbandment.

I don't see why either has to be wrong. SNX may have made the wrong decision morally/from Bob standards but from a long term perspective it was (without the benefit of hindsight) the best move they could've made. A war would have been very bad for them when you take into all of the factors at play (rebuilding/no forums/structure/large group of active players just left/a few allies recently cancelled)

I agree with you up until the last bit. It couldn't have waited. No cancellation would mean either you'd get chided for not entering in defense of TSO or you throw your rebuilding weak alliance to a war they are ill-prepared for on the eve of a losing war and you cause further problems for SNX. Either way you'd start your new era cast in a negative light. All things considered I think you made the best move possible.

http://imgur.com/tOeZe4e

Tax rate.

Oh don't get me wrong, if we look at this incident soley for itself and nothing more SNX looks wrong by all perspectives; my point, however, is that due to the necessitated and implicity urgent revamping of their entire alliance image I can understand and support their decision to cancel here, and could eventually come to forgive them (or understand those that do ally them at the very least) due to the fact that they avoided an easy war over avoiding a real fight via PM or shirked responsibilities.

Are you saying you don't have to collect before changing government? :popcorn:

Edited previous post. I think you may believe I have been agreeable because we've historically had few (if any) spats. Along the same vein I believe that many people have issues with MInc for residual historical issues rather than current blunders.