Sabcat

[img]http://wmiww.org/images/nso.jpg[/img]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1319347603' post='2830800'] Well - the consensus amongst the general membership when they learned of Legions [i]demands[/i] for a full surrender and reparations; we take a page out of FAN's book [/quote] The FAN/NPO conflict was before my time but from what I've read (and I have, sad isn't it?) what allowed FAN to fight the way they did was their organisational ability. NSO in contrast are a loud mouthed rabble who can't organise an irc channel

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1319115974' post='2829238'] So, this [i]other[/i] discussion is about people that would be "real-life cowards" because of what they chose to do/not do seven months ago with their pixels, or what they are doing/not doing now? Seriously? [/quote] As I told Hereno last night on irc, this whole thing is having such an effect on me rl that I got drunk and beat up my wife. Or not.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1319059749' post='2828806'] [color="#0000FF"]I must wonder where this martial spirit was when Legion refused to fight MK, declaring that it would only attack GOONS (before having most of the alliance spend that war in peace mode). That is where the heart of this argument is. It is not even that Legion was completely useless during that war, but due to the disrespect shown towards those who actually fought afterward.[/color] [/quote] The disrespect started with you playing your face about the DH war on these forums. You laid the blame squarely at our door for the defeat. You blamed the strategy of the coalition in that war on Legion. I wasn't in any of the planning channels for that war, heard none of the arguments for or against the way the war was fought. I do know that your version of events bears no relation to what Legion members were being told. There was no lack of enthusiasm for the fight from the general membership. We do know NSO left the war early. As has been said though, this is all in the past and we're never going to agree. In the present we see you trashing your current allies in public. I'm sure they appreciate it. You've based your assessment of Legion on assumptions that were wrong 2 weeks ago and are more wrong now. Despite your predictions we're more organised and determined now than when the war started. In that regard we owe NSO and their Tetris stooges a debt, one which we intend to repay in full.

[quote name='generals3' timestamp='1319052256' post='2828744'] Even if you dislike capitalism it was necessary. Because of the simple fact that economics isn't an exact science, you can't just come up with one good solution. Therefor you need to test and learn from the tests. And every economic model we've been through has shown strengths and weaknesses and from that we must learn and come up with a new model which will try to combine the elements which were "proven" good in certain systems and try to remove those other elements which ended up detrimental to the tested systems. Capitalism has shown many weaknesses over time but neither sides (pro & con) have yet to realize the answer is nor total change nor blind perseverance. And the same goes for communism, it had its pro's and con's but blindly rejecting or adopting all its ideologies is not the answer. [/quote] I was approaching the question from a different angle. [i]Was [/i]capitalism necessary, I don't believe it is now. From a Marxist perspective capitalism was not only necessary but inevitable. Is that right though? I don't know of any theorist that posits the development of communism (which in the Marxist sense is predicated on an industrial working class) without capitalism. The nearest I've read to it is "what is to be done" by Chervyensky(sp?) (not to be confused with Lenin's pamphlet of the same name) but his ideas are based on the idea of Russian peasants learning from the experience of the German working class and skipping the capitalist phase of development. In short could the productive forces unleashed by capitalism have been produced in any other way? edit for missing word

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1319053676' post='2828758'] So for all we know, you are making up numbers to make ya'll look good. [/quote] If they are, it's not working

An interesting discussion (although this probably isn't the place to have it) would be to argue whether capitalism was necessary.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1319013209' post='2828557'] [color="#0000FF"]And if you do not know by now that I am the True Emperor of the Sith you never will.[/color] [/quote] I've always assumed that you were the true emperor of planet bob.

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318939765' post='2827882'] We had no plan. Varianz passed the screens along of his own accord, and Hereno posted them of his own accord. That said, we're here now, and we're going to enjoy it. I largely agree that it's going to go to the bitter end, and frankly I don't shy away from that. A long hard war is the greatest test of an alliance, and NSO has already come through a few of those, so I don't doubt our capabilities. The reason we bring up the Doomhouse war is that that suggests that you don't have the stomach for war that we do, since you took most of your alliance into peacemode for the duration. And yes, we can win. [/quote] Then we'll see who's right in the end, in the meantime lets enjoy the fight.

Labour theory of value's covered. Has anyone posted the "Great money trick" yet?

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1318933031' post='2827852'] idk man, all I do is criticize, they kind of blend together. Mostly what I remember is your performance in past wars, especially the Doomhouse war, and the bad warchests exposed by the spy ops. I've seen a few Legionnaires that were close to running out of money, but as I remember most of the criticism of your warchests since the start of the war was on a general level, not saying that you're all about to be bill-locked. And that's good to hear. [/quote] I've seen a few woeful NSO WC's, I've seen some impressive WC's. My criticism of NSO et al is that you've based your game on assumptions. Whether you admit it or not you never expected the fight to be the one that you're getting either in terms of the resolve of Legion members to take this to the very bitter end or the line up on each side of the war. I'm not sure about the real truth behind the spying/Varianz's involvement and I don't know what your plan was - just that it wasn't this - You can't possibly be happy with the way things are going though. Whatever you might say. Given the ferocity of this war, especially the rhetoric I can't see it ending until one side or the other is completely spent. Total war. Obviously I'm going to say that we'll win but I do actually believe it. Do you believe you can win?

What are your criticisms? The only specific criticism that I recall is that we have no money and we're fast going broke. Don't worry yourself, you won't have the war you love so much cut short because we have a lack of cash to fight it.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1318918808' post='2827760'] We are totally irrelevant and we don't care for our allies, may be that's why the thread announcing that we will help one of our allies as they requested has 32 pages and 22k views. [/quote] You're spoiling it for them

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1318884760' post='2827316'] [color="#0000FF"]Did anyone say that about this war (except for yourself that is). But let us face it, you are not doing as well as you think. I am not saying you're doing terribly, but you are by no means winning. Looking at the percent of original NS might work for you, but looking at raw damage it is about the same, with Tetris, NSO, and NsO doing slightly more than you. Considering that we are much smaller alliances, and approximately equal amount of damage will taking more of a toll (percentagewise) on us than you. But that does not mean you're winning. It is too early to tell, despite your repeated attempts to spell our impending doom before at the hands of the Lesion.[/color] [/quote] How do you think it's going to play out then RV, is it still a matter of will to win or is something else going to decide this?

[quote name='GoddessOfLinn' timestamp='1318880576' post='2827284'] First no one thought we would do anything. When we did, no one though we would do as well as we do or last as long. Maybe it is time for you to stop making so many assumption, you are not doing so well with them [/quote] Have you not had the memo? Sith are the best at the warz and we all have to go into PM ASAP.

That's just numbers, we need RV to come and tell us the truth behind these statistics.

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1318801544' post='2826396'] Where did I say everyone in Tetris knew? Where did Tetris say everyone in Tetris knew? Pollard and Hereno are the only ones who knew, and are no longer gov. Pollard apparently told people, but Hereno didn't. Also that sig you have desperately requires an explanation. [/quote] Where did I say that you said everyone in Tetris knew? If only they knew, if the information was that tightly controlled why did you say: [quote] Holy hell it took long enough for that to come out. Speaking as "the supplier" of aforementioned screenshots, I have to say I'm surprised it took this long.[/quote] My sig? It's a pig, stuck in mud. Squealing.

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1318800414' post='2826386'] He stated that Legion gov clearly knew because they told him about it before they even declared war, but that NSO gov wasn't aware. You know what would have made NSO gov aware? If Legion had brought it up with someone over here in an effort to actually find the source of the leak. They knew Tetris got it from Varianz, but they never bothered to try and figure out where Varianz got it from.[/quote] So your story is that Varianz knew, your allies in Tetris knew, your enemies knew, VE knew but you and the rest of NSO gov didn't know? You think anyone will believe this? You never asked Tetris? I'm offended you think I or anyone else is dumb enough to believe you.

I think this particular capitalist would like to sell us some rope

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1318788212' post='2826300'] 21 out of 40 of Legion's top 40 nations are in peace mode. Can we expect them out of peace mode in a few days or did Legion fall back on their previous strategy? [/quote] We're getting ready to surrender. We're all desperately trying to get into peace mode and then beg the Sith for mercy.

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1318670619' post='2825543'] Holy hell it took long enough for that to come out. Speaking as "the supplier" of aforementioned screenshots, I have to say I'm surprised it took this long. Two different highly placed people on Legion's side of things shared those logs with me the day we entered the war. Actually, now I'm not surprised. It kind of fits Legion's actions- wait until the VE downgrade on Tetris takes effect before declaring, find out that someone in NSO was the source of the screenshots, ignore it because attacking NSO directly is unfeasible, hit Tetris instead. And everyone thought Legion were changing for the better . Anyways, the rest of NSO gov weren't aware of the fact I was the source of the info until about 10 minutes ago when I told Rayvon. I shared the information with various people, including some in Tetris. Will I reveal how I got the screenshots? Nah. I'll leave Legion wondering if they still have a spy (although I'd point out that they had another forum screenshot leak a few months ago on CNtel). I'm sure they'll go through and demask half the small new nations in their alliance, which will be entertaining. Speaking of demasking, I wonder how long mine lasts on the NSO forums... Why did I do it? Mostly because I hate Legion with a passion. We've already kind of covered that in the various rants NSOers have had about Legions actions in the DH-NPO war. Or rather, lack therof. Cue the entertaining commentary from the peanut gallery! [/quote] So everyone knew that NSO supplied the screenshots, people in Legion knew but ignored it because they didn't want to declare on NSO? In the same post you claim that NSO gov only found out 10 minutes ago. You're squealing like a pig stuck in mud Varianz. I for one am enjoying immensely. More please.

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1318670619' post='2825543'] Holy hell it took long enough for that to come out. Speaking as "the supplier" of aforementioned screenshots, I have to say I'm surprised it took this long. Two different highly placed people on Legion's side of things shared those logs with me the day we entered the war. Actually, now I'm not surprised. It kind of fits Legion's actions- wait until the VE downgrade on Tetris takes effect before declaring, find out that someone in NSO was the source of the screenshots, ignore it because attacking NSO directly is unfeasible, hit Tetris instead. And everyone thought Legion were changing for the better . [/quote] So you supplied screen shots to Tetris so you'd get caught doing it so Legion would declare on you? How stupid do you think we are Varianz? You brought Tetris into this, no one else. This entire mess is yours and it appears that NSO are going to pay for it. I'm sure Tetris are grateful for your generosity.

On a side note, I'm waiting for Varianz to give me a view on the aid sent to NSO by their allies - As it was never officially recognised/announced I'm willing to accept the loss of our tech bet on that basis.

Putting my objective hat on for a moment. I don't think RV's analysis is far wrong. in particular this is about the will to fight and accept being smashed up. I think more of NSO than I did a week ago.

Happy Birthday