Baden-Württemberg

[quote name='Shamshir' date='10 April 2010 - 11:43 PM' timestamp='1270935780' post='2255820'] Thanks for the distraction, but i'm sure when chill and ertyy come out to play you'll be below the NS threshold where you can make the biggest impact brother. We will sit and wait till the DAWN when IRON comes out to play [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif[/img] [/quote] ..and that although your CB expired and basically everyone wants you to peace out. Even your Harmlin friends call this move a mistake. Why are you fighting this war again?

OOC: It's awesome what IE makes out of Fast Reply Boxes! IC: This is amazing! I liked the name "Alexis Bledel Accords" better though. Just for Longbowe...

Congrats to you guys. Looks awesome!

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' date='08 April 2010 - 02:05 AM' timestamp='1270688724' post='2252421'] Ultimately I started a global conflict..whoops. Like it hasn't been done before and like it wont happen again. See you next time the nukes are flying I guess. I have some regrets, I made some errors and I upset some people, you wont absolve me or even give credence when I try to explain , so learn to live with it.. I will. See most of you in hell? Sounds like a date. [/quote] You have been the one holding grudges and playing the victim, not the rest of the world.

[quote name='Shamshir' date='07 April 2010 - 12:42 AM' timestamp='1270597344' post='2250883'] 3 does not a majority make, a lot have left for paradox's fair shores though. That I can't deny. [/quote] [quote name='Bob Janova' date='07 April 2010 - 12:45 AM' timestamp='1270597506' post='2250887'] Hey [/quote] The three that left were key members. I think I can agree that it wasn't a majority, but then again, quite a few joined. Also Bob, exceptions prove the rule. [quote name='Mad Mike' date='07 April 2010 - 05:45 AM' timestamp='1270615482' post='2251314'] i have a feeling you and the whole planet bob would know, when that time comes that they surrender. [/quote] No one likes Surprise Boxes. The important question here is, "would Grämlins accept these terms, if they were in IRON's situation?". Talking to old Grämlins Members, those who have made Grämlins great, I think no, no one in Grämlins would accept that. [quote name='Bill Adama' date='07 April 2010 - 06:48 AM' timestamp='1270619281' post='2251370'] It would be pretty funny if after all this IRON finally surrendered and the Gremlins Unconditional Surrender to them was white peace. [/quote] If Grämlins offer them white peace, they can do that without the fancy surprise box bs. Apparently, they don't impress anyone with that strategy but themselves. If being stubborn is the only thing they want, then they have to live with the criticism of others and can expect to die slowly in irrelevance.

[quote name='Shamshir' date='06 April 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1270593100' post='2250804'] Using those things called facts i think you'll find the majority have made the wise decision of deleting... RIP steelrat [/quote] http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=95431 - Syzygy - Now in TOP http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=61895 - HellAngel - Now in TOP http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=110612 - necant - Now in TOP I know Steelrat pretty well, and I know if he didn't delete he'd have followed his friends, to TOP. And I am quite sure that there are more....so much to your facts. If the facts you argue with in the peace negotiations contain the same amount of truth, I start to understand why trying to get peace with Grämlins is difficult.

[quote name='Shamshir' date='06 April 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1270592211' post='2250778'] be nice we don't call your alliance The Shiite Oblivion do we? IRON and DAWN can end the war at any moment [/quote] You just improved Grämlins situation 100%. Not. Again, Shamshir, I know it's quite hard to understand for a proud gRAMlin. However, I doubt either IRON or DAWN are losing anything. I know IRON is having the second tough war in a year, and they are standing like a rock. Their nations might be down, but their morale is not, and I know for a fact that they have the ability and the people to rebuilt. That said, I know shilo since his time in ODN, and in fact he has a lot of things in common with the people that founded Grämlins and made it great. DAWN has proven in this war that they are a loyal and strong partner in any conflict. I doubt that they care fighting another month. But what I know is that gRAMlins lose respect with every single day this war continues. And I know, you being gRAMlins, that if your PR starts to drop, your Member count will drop equivalent. We both know, that the peace options presented by your government, supported by you, are not an option for any alliance with some sense and honor. That said, I thank god, that our enemies were much more reasonable. We'll speak in a month or two, it'll be interesting to see if you are still a Member of gRAMlins or not.

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='06 April 2010 - 08:35 AM' timestamp='1270539321' post='2250179'] Is this a threat or just a mere suggestion? The fact that the only alliances that would have any kind of CB is IRON's allies would make it a bit hard for a "coalition" to be formed and defend IRON. That said CB-less wars have been fought before, or useless CB wars. Whether our friends would come to our aid or not, I do not know. [/quote] Aren't you guys the ones advertising a paperless CN, and now you tell others they don't have a CB because they don't have a written agreement? Why would the rules that (don't) apply to you, apply to others? After reading the 30+ pages of this thread and trying to get a clue [u]why [/u]on earth you'd want to keep fighting I still don't have an answer. It makes no sense. People start despising you, hell even your own "allies" don't support you anymore. Do you really think that you'll get just a single recruit in the next months? I really doubt that. And all people with a sense in gRAMlins will do what all smart Grämlins have done lone before this war - join TOP.

[quote name='Omas Nams' date='06 April 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1270590814' post='2250748'] For God's sake people use the umlaut :/ [/quote] This is rich. End the war and we use the umlaut. But as long as you keep getting brainwashed by Ramirus, you'll stay gRAMlins.

OOC: Sorry for the lack of fight of my nation for the past few weeks, but I was moving, thus hardly time and internet. That said, it was a great fight, I really enjoyed, we had some good "enemies". Special shout out to GATO and ODN and Ronin. Good job guys.

[quote name='Starfox101' date='04 April 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1270405065' post='2247658'] Lol, Penkala. Why you being a coward? Fight him like a man and back up your words. Always going around tough talking, well now we see you're only as tough as the people backing you up. [/quote] Oh noez, Penkalas infra. Good job, Aut!

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' date='03 April 2010 - 08:27 PM' timestamp='1270322811' post='2246718'] My god you're annoying Dr. Fresh and Gopher need to become Chancellors again and right the sinking ship [/quote] Finally, people start blaming SCY instead of TSO

[quote name='Gopherbashi' date='09 March 2010 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1268169582' post='2219615'] Seven, actually. [/quote] With crack only 6...

One of our best. You are certainly one of the very few persons I won't forget. Damn Aussie See our middlefinger and behold our indifference \o

TOP, next time when you infiltrate another alliance and gain control, don't make it that obvious, please

[quote name='Lord Rune' date='28 February 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1267374145' post='2208373'] Yet you cared enough to start this thread and spend the past 16 pages arguing the toss. I see the indifference!! [/quote] Nope, we started that thread because it's our birthday, not because we intended to argue anything. These, "omg you say you don't care yet you responded", argument is a little silly and unneeded. Yes, when people make claims, that are proven to be untrue about us and our heritage, we [b]will correct them[/b]. And when we do that we argue the topic not the person. (OOC) We judge the post by the post and not by the person writing it. (/OOC) So yeah, it might happen that we respond to someone's arguments although we totally don't care about the character. Thanks, and have a nice Sunday, I hope next time, we'll have a more productive conversation, and that I can respond on more productive points .

[quote name='Pearl' date='28 February 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1267381292' post='2208553'] Uh oh. Is the big bad Sparta ruining the game again? I knew it. Down with sparta before we get a chance to cripple/disband a few alliances, and insert a few viceroys. EDIT: Voted less then 3 months. We deserve Satan's wrath asap. [/quote] I think the majority of the people in here think that Sparta is too irrelevant to actually ruin something.

[quote name='illini12day' date='28 February 2010 - 06:27 PM' timestamp='1267378278' post='2208470'] O really? I am sorry you guys don't have balls to attack us if you think we are such a bad alliance! By the way [b]we are number 4 alliance![/b] Attack us and I bet you we won't be one burning! And Sparta ain't going down this year we just need to re-adjust things after this war! Doxa Sparta!!!!! [/quote] This is rich. And the thread isn't even 2 pages long. Have fun readjusting things, if I were you, I'd sign a few additional treaties. Or do it like ODN, suck up to Archon and get into CnG. Your possibilities are endless

[quote name='SunnyInc' date='28 February 2010 - 09:47 AM' timestamp='1267347072' post='2208023'] What part of TSO not caring about your opinion don't you understand? [/quote] I don't think anyone is surprised by his ignorance.

[quote name='MaGneT' date='27 February 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1267307827' post='2206961'] Perhaps this whole thing was more of a misunderstanding than I'd thought. I believe that you tried to help the situation, although I can't remember it, but neither of us have the time to sift through those logs, and the BLEU forum archive that I read through doesn't have many threads about the NADC war. I'll exit the thread for real now. I'm still no fan of TSO, though . [/quote] TSO doesn't want to be liked, but we want the ignorance towards our alliance stop. Everyone who doesn't know us, hates us, there are a very few people who know us and dislike us, some of them might even have their reasons. That said, there are always two sides of one story, and our side has been ignored by most of the people, because it seems to be cool. We don't want to be liked, simply that some people recognize that we might have a point and a few arguments when it comes to the issues presented. That said, back to the actual topic. We in the Oblivion have and always had our very own ideals, even before the creation of TSO. You don't need to like them, but no matter how many people we piss off, these ideals will be followed, because we won't make decisions that don't please us, to suck up to other people. One big part of these ideals, although I can't really talk as an official anymore, is that treaties as most of you see them, are rather unimportant. For us friendships matter, have always mattered and will always matter. Thus we are fighting for TOP now. Like it or not.

[quote name='MaGneT' date='27 February 2010 - 01:50 AM' timestamp='1267232054' post='2205588'] You supported the war with NADC. You fought alongside us. That's support. You even supported attacking the whole alliance again because 20% of them were violating terms. I don't recall any of MCXA's government members saying anything against that war. I could be wrong, though, that was over two years ago, so feel free to log dump. [/quote] Certainly, I am not going to search for logs of these conversation, because that would take me hours. But, I can tell you, that many of our Members, such as the current MCXA Chancellor NeurlLink and their current Judge Liffer were unhappy with the situation. While we defended the war internally, in order to keep the morale up, we very well presented our concerns to the Members of BLEU, and for that, were called cowards by Grub. We also received a screenshot that showed Sponge saying we should get attacked because we are getting too strong. When we approached Myworld about it, he said, we shouldn't worry because Sponge is like a grumpy old man. This were his exact words. So yes, we indeed disapproved of the war, because our Members did. [quote name='elborrador' date='27 February 2010 - 06:02 AM' timestamp='1267247154' post='2205881'] please, they left BLEU to get into one vision. They sold us out, plains and simple. [/quote] You make it way too simple. The whole reasoning behind our decision was more complex than that. We were in the Continuum and had a treaty with Echelon and GGA. So that's bs. [quote name='SunnyInc' date='27 February 2010 - 06:06 AM' timestamp='1267247424' post='2205893'] No, we left BLEU because ES completely alienated us as friends. [/quote] This. [quote name='MaGneT' date='27 February 2010 - 06:30 AM' timestamp='1267248825' post='2205922'] A MADP does not force you to approve of everything your allies do, nor does it keep you from raising your concerns with them. No one from MCXA's leadership came to myself or anyone from SOUL, and we held a MADP with them outside BLEU as well. In fact, we considered them to be our closest ally. [/quote] I am rather certain that you guys knew about our concerns as well. I believe you that you didn't though, but I don't know why. [quote] MCXA left BLEU closer to the NoCB War. They had participated in a curbstomp after NADC (GUN). They weren't against BLEU's actions so much as BLEU's reputation. I'm not confused. But MCXA's leadership never expressed their disapproval with the whole of BLEU. Oh, lordy. You left because NPO wanted ES alienated. [/quote] Yes, we left closer to the WotC than to the NADC - War, because 1 or 2 $%&@ed up wars wasn't a reason for us to cancel that treaty. But you'll also remember that after GUN we refused to fight. That said, it wasn't BLEU's reputation that was damaged by NpO's, however claiming that we ever cared about our reputation is quite funny, because the past year we haven't. Why would you think that our stance on that has changed from then till now? I thought we don't change? We didn't have a disapproval with whole of BLEU, if that's what came across to you, it's wrong. We had a major disapproval with Polar, that's it. Fresh gave you the opportunity to show them the boot, most of BLEU refused, thus in the end, there wasn't a choice left. And seriously, if NPO wanted to see Sponge alienated they could have done that very well without our help. Sponge pissed off enough people. [quote name='Gopherbashi' date='27 February 2010 - 06:30 AM' timestamp='1267248860' post='2205924'] And the Gopher said "Let the alliance be split into two"... That would be incorrect. The decision to form that alliance was never under my control, and plans for its formation were already well in motion before I was made aware of them. The acceleration of a months-long transfer of government to one extending over a period of days was made around the same time, and I do not believe I was the chief reason why people wished to accelerate their departure. I should note, in factual defense of TSO, that a number of departing government officials - specifically in the Minister of Defense - did make efforts to train those who would be replacing them. My congratulations to TSO: I do not believe that many believed either of us to make it this far. Should anyone wish to discuss the events of this split (you know, instead of just circling each other on unicycles and bashing each other over the head with rubber mallets), I'll stick around on IRC for about an hour. [/quote] We never claimed that you said Gopherbashi SPLIT! But we claimed that we offered to stay longer to help you out. Mainly because of some of the drama, many major members (doesn't necessarily mean government) wanted to leave the alliance. I could hold them back for some time, but after the childish discussions continued, many people simply got enough of it. So in the end, the result would have been the same. Most of the Members would have left, however what I tried was keeping together the grouping. We also hoped to keep up good relations with MCXA, that's the part in where we failed. [quote name='MaGneT' date='27 February 2010 - 08:04 AM' timestamp='1267254453' post='2206184'] You're implying that we coerced MCXA into cooperation. Given the fact that MCXA was part of NPO's sphere of influence, I doubt that they felt threatened by BLEU. And, personally, I can't see a reason not to tell a MADP partner about something you disapprove of. DT and PC do it all the time. [/quote] After our resignation we indeed felt threatened by BLEU, considering past actions, and considering the liability of some of the leaders in this bloc. (That liability is IC meant. They used to tend to push the red button pretty quick) As I said, you have a point, we should have been a lot more open about it. That's one of the mistakes we made in this conflict. But trust me on one thing, the NpO officials very well knew where we stood in this whole debacle.

[quote name='raasaa' date='26 February 2010 - 07:55 AM' timestamp='1267167537' post='2204616'] I understand that gullible minds simply cannot comprehend the manner in which the exit was carried out. We have no issues with MCXA leaving BLEU, their alliance, their choice, their decision whether or not to remain in the bloc. But we do have an issue that MCXA tried to spread false rumors regarding another member of the same bloc, trying to get them ejected from BLEU and isolate them on the treaty web. Again, the majority of the voters, which comprised of the active members of MCXA, are now in TSO P.S : a few more announcements from TSO should help my post count on these forums [/quote] In one of my posts yesterday or the day before I have given you 4 points why we've left BLEU. What you write now, sounds a lot different than where we started. Whatever, the 4 points I have given you, were the reasons we are leaving. I knew that Fresh was trying to get NpO out of Polar, but I didn't know what reasons he told you he used. He is grown up, not in TSO, not our problem. Stop blaming us. [quote name='MaGneT' date='26 February 2010 - 08:18 AM' timestamp='1267168920' post='2204642'] Sorry for venturing back here, but it's just too tempting. MCXA's leadership (and now TSO's) ran a campaign within BLEU to try to undermine NpO. In my opinion, this was under NPO's direction. Why? They wanted to remove Polar and Sponge without having to fight a global war. They also wanted to take an entire color bloc under their sphere of influence. This is common knowledge. Wake up. [/quote] It wasn't under our direction. I know there are the logs from Dilber, they are taken out of context. In fact, we went to him, telling him we'll resign, he asked us to wait. Thus, out of respect for them, we waited. And yes, we wanted Sponge removed. Him being Emperor again was a slap in our face. Also, our Members were very eager on fighting, thus in the end, we fought. That said, I personally, and I doubt anyone in TSO was ever hot on the blue senate seat. I mean, I was Chancellor, if I really wanted it, I could have simply removed Fresh. Yet I didn't because today and at that time, the team senat can be compared to the (OOC) UN in my opinion. It's a useless political tool unless you are a nuke rogue. [quote name='magicninja' date='26 February 2010 - 08:29 AM' timestamp='1267169603' post='2204653'] On a side note have you guys really been changing AA's so you can slip into peacemode? [/quote] Because two people changed their AA? Oh come on now...do you really think we don't know we got monitored? [quote name='raasaa' date='26 February 2010 - 08:44 AM' timestamp='1267170452' post='2204675'] problem here is, being one of the leaders who was approached by Dr Fresh at that time, i know that MCXA did try to undermine NpO's position in BLEU. That is not common propaganda, it is a fact. [/quote] I admitted I don't know what he said. [quote name='raasaa' date='26 February 2010 - 10:14 AM' timestamp='1267175850' post='2204744'] BLEU got rolled because they stood by their MADP ally in NpO. We are not the kind to cut and run at times of war, jumping to the more stronger side. Fortunately, that didn't work out for you on the long run. Oh great, now Fresh acted without government authority on trying to eject NpO from BLEU...what next, Fresh was the complete mastermind behind every and any bad decisions taken by MCXA ?? And how did you arrive at that conclusion....which brilliant genius fed you guys the wrong information regarding the NpO - NADC war ?? Why MCXA, the people who executed the plot reside in TSO.... Broken record will stop once scum own up and change their attitude [/quote] Fortunately, you don't know us. No one in TSO ever cared about infra, or why have we suddenly stopped caring about it? We didn't want to support NpO anymore, because for the 4 reasons (and more) I mentioned. We fight for our friends. We have fought for NpO / Viridia during GWIII without treaty obligation and were ZIed; because they were our friends at that time. Today, we are fighting for TOP for the very same reasons. But there was no way in hell we'd stand by the alliance that betrayed us that many times within a few months. Trust me, to cancel BLEU was very disappointing for us, yet the only possible and logical step. [quote name='MaGneT' date='26 February 2010 - 10:20 PM' timestamp='1267219469' post='2205326'] Whether we were lied to or not was a moot point. MCXA was hungry for the senate before and after that conflict. It was an unspoken agreement: a bunch of us had nukes spied away, and we had all been getting angry at NADC's presence on the blue senate. For the most part, we didn't care who had done it as long as it meant a senate seat. None of us were dumb enough to believe that NADC had the capacity to pull something like that off. But did we care? No. And neither did your leadership. Not once did they say "hey, let's take a second". [/quote] That's bs. We had our senate seat, we knew we wouldn't get a second one. So even if it were true what you said, that we knew that the NADC CB is bs, there woudld have been no logical reason for us to participate. [quote] Even after the war, when Polar was the main threat to MCXA's senate seat, Fresh was going around whining to certain BLEU members about how he had over 100 votes less than Myworld. Do you really think that MCXA didn't know the real reasons behind that war? Do you really thing they weren't one of the driving forces behind it? I think our issue is more with the fact that we (being myself, raasaa, Sponge, and the rest of BLEU's leadership) paid the consequences for our actions. We learned our lesson. MCXA's leadership, however, jumped ship during NoCB, then avoided justice yet again during Karma. They're cowards. You can't dispute that. We all know the truth, and one day they'll get theirs too. [/quote] Nope. We offered MCXA a treaty before we left. We offered NPO a treaty before we left. We did that, because we didn't want to fight the Karma war? Yes sure thing. What lessons did you learn? That attacking the allies of allies is bad? That talking !@#$ about allies of allies and plotting a war against them in dangerous? I am afraid we don't have to learn these lessons. [quote name='Haflinger' date='26 February 2010 - 11:14 PM' timestamp='1267222680' post='2205394'] You're generally correct. You missed out on where the "USN members" joined USN private members-only IRC channels after joining TSO. [/quote] I am not certain about whom you are talking, I am sure that it wasn't spying. It was the proof that we in fact didn't poach Members, but that it was their very own free will to join us. That they joined USN just a few days ago was unfortunate, thus they paid. [quote name='MaGneT' date='27 February 2010 - 12:10 AM' timestamp='1267226010' post='2205455'] Fresh was one of the few people in MCXA who was respectable enough to try to help us out. The rest of you were rats who didn't give a hoot if allies who would've gone to ZI and back for you in a heartbeat got beat down as long as you saved your skin. Your memory seems a bit lackluster. MCXA stayed as one alliance through the NoCB war. MCXA and Echelon ran from BLEU before NoCB, then, when their judgment day came, Echelon's leadership stood tall and got what they deserved, and I respect them for that. MCXA's leadership, however, fled to hide behind TOP, because they knew that Karma needed TOP on their side. Cowards. I am in no way bitter about being rolled. The BLEU sigs all participated in acts whose reasons were mostly "we don't like them, and we can kill them if we want". We deserved what we got. For the most part, we've learned our lesson. Your leadership was as complicit as any other. And don't give me a tearful "but the general members voted to leave BLEU!" You only voted to leave BLEU when you saw that the general mood of Planet Bob was very much against us. That isn't noble, that isn't moral outrage against the wars against NADC or GUN, that's an entire alliance behaving as a pack of poltroons. When TSO/MCXA's government needed BLEU to gain power on the blue sphere, they sang its praises, and helped push for a war on NADC, which would secure them a senate seat 100% of the time. But when BLEU became more of a liability, you showed your colors as a pack of self-serving turncoats. That's the truth. That's one of the reasons MCXA was beat down along with the rest of the Hegemony. That's the reason that TSO is one of the most reviled alliances on Planet Bob. [/quote] 1. You guys are complaining about Fresh yet saying he is a respectable guy and at the same time blaming his actions on us. Priceless. 2. I told you about the Karma war already. 3. Tell me which of BLEU's actions were aggressively started by MCXA? Which alliance did we start to "bully" as you might call it? Did we start the NADC conflict? No. Did we start the GUN thing? - no. Did we start hitting VE's allies? - again, no. We participated because it was our obligation, and everyone in BLEU knew our opinion about it. I remember Grub calling us cowards when we tried to leave the NADC conflict. I remember getting in endless discussions and I regret that we didn't leave earlier. Would have saved all of us valuable time.

[quote name='KingEd' date='25 February 2010 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1267131093' post='2203433'] Leadership telling members to what ? I doubt that ever happened and if it did, it sure as hell wasn't me. The NPO cancellations, sure pin in on that. No one ever mentions they failed to inform us that they were launching attacks while in peace-talks, and Moo's internet dropping every 10s didn't help the situation. There has to be drama, otherwise, who would play ? [/quote] How about you sing for us I'd love a belated birthday song. We can even start a CN's best idol contest.

[quote name='raasaa' date='25 February 2010 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1267127654' post='2203361'] Well, i am yet to see any attempt from MCXA towards changing it or addressing the "NpO running roughshod over her allies" issue with allies in BLEU. Before MCXA's exit from BLEU, you guys tried to poach the other BLEU allies, feeding us BS, trying to turn us against NpO, thus leaving NpO hanging dry. Plotting against your own MADP partner....is that a requirement in the Mobius Accords as well..i am guessing it is cos we had a similar experience ?? Playing the innocent victim doesn't suit your alliance at all...... [/quote] See, you are the one spinning the story. IIRC every alliance in BLEU was equal. You cannot coup someone equal. We tried to get them booted because in our opinion their actions didn't meet BLEU's standards anymore. Same could have been said about their communication. The rest of BLEU disagreed, thus we left. There are plenty of alliances leaving blocs for less reasons, and getting hailed for doing so. This isn't about the facts, this is about your hatred. Also, I don't know what Fresh told you, and I am certainly no fan of him, yet I am quite certain that it wasn't a big big lie, as you claim. I however think, that this is you trying to spin the story. We had plenty of reasons resigning from BLEU, some of them are mentioned above. There is no way and no reason for us spinning the story.

[quote name='raasaa' date='25 February 2010 - 08:42 PM' timestamp='1267127139' post='2203349'] I like that spin, quite original, haven't heard that one before. So you did betray one set of allies to appease some others... [/quote] Nope. 1. We told everyone we were unhappy with the situation. You all knew our treaty. The Mobius Accords wasn't something secret. You all knew it's a bloc that overwrites everything else, you all knew that most of the treaties have an Intelligence clause, you all knew that attacking, or even planning on attacking our allies is a bad idea. 2. You all knew, that attacking Viridia's allies was a bad idea. Hell, they were one of our close allies at that time, no way in hell Polars attack on their allies would have stayed without response from us. 3. I told you in query we are unhappy with Polars communication at that time. They left us in the dark with so many things, saying their "Emperor" is busy, yet they were able starting threads on the BLEU Forums dissing our allies. 4. Fresh at that time, talked to each any every of you, about booting Polar from BLEU for exactly these actions. You didn't want to boot them, thus the only logical thing for us to do was following the will of our Members and resigning. I doubt we are the ones spinning the facts here, nice try though.