Hyperion321

you edited yours. I'll edit mine.

[quote name='Krack' timestamp='1312521149' post='2772439'] Not sure I would have posted those logs; made you both look bad. EDIT: Particularly when nobody was asking for them. [/quote] Nobody was asking for them, but I wanted to detail my thought process publically so that people will stop asking about it. It wasn't about non chaining clauses, or choosing one ally over another, it was about taking a hard decision and trying to find a way around it. Most people that ask me about how I handled that war don't know why we did what we did, or why xiph did what he did. Now you do, and now we can all move on. I've since apologized to everyone from RIA to NoR for how I handled that war, and now that you all know my reasonings we can stop binging it up over, and over, and over agian.

[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1312520823' post='2772436'] You're being a little hyperbolic, I think... I'm really not supposed to be answering questions, so I'll just point this one out- you [i]vastly[/i] underestimate the amount of work the alliances on Maroon have put in since the war in order to improve themselves. CSN will probably never get credit for all the work they've put in because they're such a trendy hate target but give CRAP, TTK, and RIA some love for the work they're doing, hmm? Seriously. In some ways it's literally night and day. And I don't even have the full scope of the work the CA alliances are putting in since I'm only a grunt. [/quote] This. I've heard pretty much all of maroon has gone balls out in terms of improving war readiness lately.

[quote name='Dontasemebro' timestamp='1312518673' post='2772404'] That logdump has some seriously unnecessary parts in it. Not what an ally would do tbh, Im pretty disappointed. [/quote] What was unnessecary? That was literally what was going through my thought process when I made the decision. Keep in mind, I was only an elder, so that decision wasn't even mine to make. The kings weren't around to make the call, so when Xiph came to me, that was what transpired. I never said I was right, I just thought I would air out our individual thought processes.

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1312517595' post='2772391'] Gonna need a tldr on that one dog. [/quote] Xiph: "WHAT THE $%&@ DUDE!" Hyp: "DUDE, WHAT THE $%&@!" Xiph: "no seriously dude...what the $%&@." Hyp: "No...what the $%&@ dude...seriously." Xiph: "seriously." Hyp: "What the $%&@."

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1312500935' post='2772159'] [b]On a scale of one to ten, how angry were you with Sparta after their refusal to hit GATO after Athens requested them not to? And Why?[/b] 9,000. And: when an MDP partner that's heavily engaged already gets hit by an alliance of GATO's size [no points for skill, but still] I generally expect that the treaty would be honored, and not cast aside because Athens was considered a higher ally than RIA. That's just not cool. [/quote] Just to set the record straight publically to anyone who actually cares what the GOD-Sparta dynamic was like during our decision making process, here are some logs (below). These are not meant to paint anyone in any negative or positive light, this is just what happened. I think you will all agree that the factors that went into our choices were a little bit more grey-area than a non chaining clause or even just Athen's requests, and I think you all will also agree that when it comes to a bloc mate, Xiph will do anything and everything he can for them. That being said, I still regret how it was handled and since then we have made it a top priority to rectify our mistakes with RIA. So...anyway...here you go. <Xiphosis[GOD]>I don't play that <Xiphosis[GOD]>Maybe you should ask Athens why they are <Hyp>perhaps if you gave us just a tiny bit of warning before going in we could have had this mess planned around all of our interests before kicking it off <Xiphosis[GOD]>tbh <Xiphosis[GOD]>true of VE too <Hyp>i understand wanting to back RIA immediately, but tactically there are better ways of doing it <Xiphosis[GOD]>aren't you guys allied as well? <Xiphosis[GOD]>oh you mean GATO <Xiphosis[GOD]>not the whole thing <Hyp>ya <Hyp>the whole thing is another !@#$storm all together <Hyp>I am talking about how the GATO front is being handled tactically <Xiphosis[GOD]>I'm aware <Xiphosis[GOD]>I wanted to punch GATO in the face as they blitzed and I was willing to overextend to do it <Hyp>if this was brought up before going in, Athens could have expressed their request before hand <Hyp>and we could have planned accordinly <Xiphosis[GOD]>they could've <Xiphosis[GOD]>in all honesty? <Xiphosis[GOD]>Would've ignored it even still <Xiphosis[GOD]>an ally of an ally has no say in whether I defend my own allies <Hyp>i'm not talking about athens getting you to stop going in <Hyp>you, of course, SHOULD be defending RIA <Hyp>what I am talking about <Xiphosis[GOD]>[so should you] <Hyp>is planning the support before hand <Xiphosis[GOD]> <Hyp>rather than scrambling for it now <Xiphosis[GOD]>couldn't resist, go on. <Hyp>if we knew what you were doing before hand <Hyp>we could have done this without having Sparta become the ace in the hole in the first place <Hyp>we could have prepped Argent <Hyp>we could have prepped IRON <Hyp>that's all I'm saying <Hyp>is that communication was lacking in this isntance <Xiphosis[GOD]>IRON lol <Xiphosis[GOD]>I wish you could see my face right now <Hyp>and we should have had a meeting on the best way to handle this tactically to get AROUND Athen's dissatisfaction <Xiphosis[GOD]>you're not hearing me at all <Hyp>I don't think I am <Xiphosis[GOD]>Athen's dissatisfaction should not overrule treaty obligations <Xiphosis[GOD]>that is my issue. <Hyp>and what of our treaty obligations to Brig <Xiphosis[GOD]>When it's our basic security on the line I shouldn't have my allies ducking out because one of their other allies is dissatisfied with them supporting me. <Xiphosis[GOD]>Brig was not attacked <Hyp>and our plan on taking down NPO with MK/umb with sparta as the chain <Xiphosis[GOD]>they attacked <Xiphosis[GOD]>RIA /was/ attacked <Xiphosis[GOD]>Oh I know <Xiphosis[GOD]>I don't want you on GATO at this point <Xiphosis[GOD]>I'm just saying <Xiphosis[GOD]>that was !@#$%^&* it needs to never happen again <Xiphosis[GOD]>You have every right to say no to me <Xiphosis[GOD]>GATO didn't attack me <Xiphosis[GOD]>I hit them <Xiphosis[GOD]>but not RIA <Xiphosis[GOD]>I mean it's pretty much flat out breaking the tie and spitting in their face on top of it <Xiphosis[GOD]>and if you'd do that for Athens <Xiphosis[GOD]>then you are playing favorites. Pure and simple. <Hyp>I guess us exhausting ourselves trying to find you back up doens't count for anything eh? <Xiphosis[GOD]>I gave you credit for that <Xiphosis[GOD]>but no <Xiphosis[GOD]>finding surrogates doesn't make up for not honoring a treaty <Xiphosis[GOD]>it helps but it's really not the same <Xiphosis[GOD]>I need to know you have my back - not just when Athens is okay with you having my back <Xiphosis[GOD]>if that makes more sense <Hyp>You know we always have your back <Hyp>I came to you last night, remember <Xiphosis[GOD]> <Hyp>however <Hyp>sometimes <Xiphosis[GOD]>I knew* <Xiphosis[GOD]>lol <Xiphosis[GOD]>you came after <Xiphosis[GOD]>After <Xiphosis[GOD]>I got Valek on the horn <Hyp>ya <Hyp>he called me <Xiphosis[GOD]>and tried my damnedest <Xiphosis[GOD]>to find anyone from Sparta <Hyp>because nobody ever actually talked to me <Xiphosis[GOD]>I know <Xiphosis[GOD]>I had to come to y'all <Xiphosis[GOD]> <Hyp>i never got a query or notification or anything :-/ <Xiphosis[GOD]>You'll just have to accept a sorry for that <Xiphosis[GOD]>and realize I had to get my guys in order <Xiphosis[GOD]>and out <Xiphosis[GOD]>in less than 30m <Xiphosis[GOD]>and the DoW up <Xiphosis[GOD]>and a million other things <Hyp>I understand <Hyp>I'm there in that position right now <Xiphosis[GOD]>UPN was due to nuke us and all the anarchies meant no one can declare offensively <Xiphosis[GOD]>which is a big issue <Hyp>however, what you have to understand is that having your back doesn't mean we can just !@#$ on all of our other allies <Hyp>having your back is doing everything we CAN do for you <Hyp>which we have been doing <Hyp>trust me <Hyp>I would love nothing more than to stomp GATO <Xiphosis[GOD]>... <Hyp>but we cannot and will not !@#$ on Athens when there are other options <Xiphosis[GOD]>if your other allies <Xiphosis[GOD]>sanction their allies <Xiphosis[GOD]>to hit mine <Xiphosis[GOD]>not to hit mine <Xiphosis[GOD]>to hit ME <Xiphosis[GOD]>then yeah <Xiphosis[GOD]>you'll need to !@#$ on them <Xiphosis[GOD]>if I okay VE to hit Sparta <Xiphosis[GOD]>you'd !@#$ on me <Xiphosis[GOD]>a million times over <Xiphosis[GOD]>No? <Hyp>I don't think Athens gave GATO permission to do anything <Hyp>because they would not have condoned it. <Xiphosis[GOD]>oh? <Xiphosis[GOD]>then why is Athens still allied to GATO? <Xiphosis[GOD]>and still looking out for them? <Xiphosis[GOD]>Asking Sparta to stay off them is basically condoning it/helping <Hyp>because they aren't going to cancel after one decision. <Xiphosis[GOD]>That's !@#$@#$ what it is. Definition. <Hyp>Xiph <Hyp>is RIA had no available back up and this was a beat down <Xiphosis[GOD]>Tell me I'm wrong. <Hyp>I would understand your position <Xiphosis[GOD]>And then explain in what ways I'm wrong. <Xiphosis[GOD]>No <Xiphosis[GOD]>$%&@ that <Xiphosis[GOD]>There's no context <Xiphosis[GOD]>to treaties <Hyp>listen <Xiphosis[GOD]>It's not "We will defend RIA IF AND ONLY IF THEY HAVE NO ONE ELSE TO DEFEND THEM" <Xiphosis[GOD]>That's not what the damn thing says <Xiphosis[GOD]>does it? <Hyp>will you just listen for one second <Xiphosis[GOD]>yes <Hyp>this is coalition warfare. In coalition warfare, you don't $%&@ over your own coalition and hit their allies when there are equal options available in said coalition. Tactically, Sparta's intervention on GATO was not the only option. Therefor, we were not going to $%&@ over Athens when there were non-connected resources available to help RIA. Would we defend them if we were a non-connected resource? $%&@ yes we would. Will we !@#$ on our allies when it is not absolutely necessary? no, we will not. <Xiphosis[GOD]>? <Hyp>you don't see in any coalition war everyone declaring based on every single defense clause that pops up <Hyp>because in most cases <Xiphosis[GOD]>You avoided the question. <Hyp>we already have plans for those defense clauses <Xiphosis[GOD]>and also? <Xiphosis[GOD]>In most cases< Xiphosis[GOD]>PEOPLE DON'T ASK <Xiphosis[GOD]>in this case, we did <Xiphosis[GOD]>and you said no. <Xiphosis[GOD]>that is the issue <Hyp>We didn't say no to helping you. We said no to declaring on GATO. <Hyp>there is a big difference <Xiphosis[GOD]>lol <Xiphosis[GOD]>you said no to helping RIA <Xiphosis[GOD]>RIA was declared on by GATO <Xiphosis[GOD]>I asked you on to GATO specifically to defend them <Xiphosis[GOD]>GOD can't do it <Xiphosis[GOD]>15-30 members v. 400 is not a counter. <Xiphosis[GOD]>It'll make them stumble. A bit. <Hyp>]of course GOD can't do it. That is why I was trying to find people who can without !@#$ting on our other allies. <Hyp>this is what happens in coalitions dude <Xiphosis[GOD]>god damn you're not getting it <Xiphosis[GOD]>lol <Xiphosis[GOD]>I don't care <Xiphosis[GOD]>You're my ally /first/ <Xiphosis[GOD]>a member of this damn coalition /second/ <Xiphosis[GOD]>or is that not the case? <Xiphosis[GOD]>seriously wtf <Xiphosis[GOD]>our coalition has TOP in it for $%&@s sake <Xiphosis[GOD]>they should not matter more to you than me <Xiphosis[GOD]>or we've got !@#$@#$ giant issues <Hyp>dude...why even ask that <Xiphosis[GOD]>it's an example <Xiphosis[GOD]>this coalition is a motley of my idols interspersed with some of our friends <Xiphosis[GOD]>what their perogative is will /not/ always align with what's in the best interests of GOD or RIA or Sparta <Xiphosis[GOD]>that is something WE have to be concerned with <Xiphosis[GOD]>not what the coalition wants <Xiphosis[GOD]>the simple fact is <Hyp>what is in the bests interests of Sparta is winning this war and helping our friends without !@#$ting on any of our other friends <Xiphosis[GOD]>we're running out of allies <Xiphosis[GOD]>I didn't ask Sparta out of the random <Xiphosis[GOD]>lol <Xiphosis[GOD]>2 of my allies got pulled in due to NpO treaties, most of maroon is incompetent <Xiphosis[GOD]>And Sparta/FARK have basically cited anything <Xiphosis[GOD]>to not help <Hyp>which is why I talked to imp <Xiphosis[GOD]>it's goddamn frustrating <Hyp>and lined up help <Xiphosis[GOD]>$%&@ IMP! <Xiphosis[GOD]>god <Xiphosis[GOD]>good lord. <Xiphosis[GOD]>I need allies. <Xiphosis[GOD]>Not help. <Xiphosis[GOD]>How does this not make sense to you? <Xiphosis[GOD]>I've fought with help before <Xiphosis[GOD]>It's a nightmare <Xiphosis[GOD]>"help" tried to give NPO white peace <Xiphosis[GOD]>"help" threatened to roll RoK if they imposed reps on IRON <Xiphosis[GOD]>I don't want "help" <Xiphosis[GOD]>I want my friends. <Xiphosis[GOD]>I am very sorry if Athens had a conflict of interest but in all seriousness they should've cleared it up before the war, it is not Sparta or GOD or RIA's problem. <Xiphosis[GOD]>We cannot be constrained because some of our allies have allies themselves fighting on the other side <Hyp>actually, what Athens wants is very much our problem. You may not be allied to them, but we are. <Xiphosis[GOD]>yes <Xiphosis[GOD]>you are <Xiphosis[GOD]>but Athens <Xiphosis[GOD]>was not hit <Xiphosis[GOD]>by a 400-member alliance <Xiphosis[GOD]>RIA was <Xiphosis[GOD]>another one of your allies <Hyp>the fact of the matter is <Xiphosis[GOD]>that VERY MUCH SO IS YOUR PROBLEM. <Hyp>when we asked athens not to hit RoK <Hyp>they said ok <Hyp>why the $%&@ would we not do the same <Hyp>for them <Xiphosis[GOD]>because that's offensive <Hyp>they were going to activate <Hyp>a defensive clause <Hyp>with PC <Hyp>what is the difference <Xiphosis[GOD]>there is none <Xiphosis[GOD]>Athens still had every right in the world to do it. Hyp>but they didn't <Hyp>because they respected what we asked for <Hyp>they weren't playing favorites, as you say <Hyp>they were backing US up, as you say <Hyp>we can't ignore that and do the exact opposite <Hyp>when they ask us the same thing <Xiphosis[GOD]>lol <Xiphosis[GOD]>they were playing favorites actually <Xiphosis[GOD]>also? <Xiphosis[GOD]>I don't think PC asked them to activate <Hyp>the fact of the matter is, they were going to defend PC no matter what. <Hyp>we asked them not to hit RoK <Hyp>they obliged our request <Hyp>not to hit our ally <Xiphosis[GOD]>well <Xiphosis[GOD]>I'm very happy <Xiphosis[GOD]>that semantics <Xiphosis[GOD]>can help you justify this !@#$ <Xiphosis[GOD]>I'll sleep well <Xiphosis[GOD]>lol <Hyp>it's not semantics <Xiphosis[GOD]>just know I'd !@#$@#$ never pull that nonsense on you <Xiphosis[GOD]>never. ever. <Hyp>it's us doing eXACTLY what Athens did for us <Xiphosis[GOD]>and you'd be just as furious <Xiphosis[GOD]>if I did <Hyp>no, we wouldn't <Hyp>you know why? <Xiphosis[GOD]>yes <Xiphosis[GOD]>you would <Hyp>because we have already had to deal with it this war <Xiphosis[GOD]>If an alliance several hundred members bigger than you <Xiphosis[GOD]>that I was allied to <Xiphosis[GOD]>hit you right now <Xiphosis[GOD]>and I asked our mutual allies <Xiphosis[GOD]>not to defend you <Xiphosis[GOD]>you'd be pissed <Xiphosis[GOD]>and don't even say you wouldn't be <Hyp>pissed? yes. Would we rage about it and yell at you? no. <Hyp>because we understand. <Hyp>we have already been in your position this war <Hyp>but we understand that our allies also have OTHER allies too. <Hyp>and that they, just like us, don't play favorites. <Hyp>why do you think Asg are still our friends even though they are on the other side <Xiphosis[GOD]>lol <Hyp>when we asked them to help us on NPO <Xiphosis[GOD]>You know what? <Xiphosis[GOD]>I don't !@#$@#$ know <Xiphosis[GOD]>I told Tulak months ago <Xiphosis[GOD]>Asg and NoR <Xiphosis[GOD]>were going to defect <Xiphosis[GOD]>and you know what? <Xiphosis[GOD]>He's going to get spammed at him <Xiphosis[GOD]>soon as he returns <Xiphosis[GOD]>I should've bet money <Hyp>it's not defecting <Hyp>it's them defending \m/ and AzN <Xiphosis[GOD]>yes it !@#$@#$ is <Xiphosis[GOD]> <Hyp>no, it's not defecting <Xiphosis[GOD]>ARES/Genesis have standing promises <Xiphosis[GOD]>with me <Hyp> We aren't the !@#$@#$ KGB. People will do whatever the hell they want to do. That isn't "defecting". Good lord you sound like Pacifica. <Xiphosis[GOD]>to defend GOD <Xiphosis[GOD]>on the word <Xiphosis[GOD]>Even if it tears them in half <Xiphosis[GOD]>they will honor it <Xiphosis[GOD]>THAT is loyalty despite being on the other side <Xiphosis[GOD]>What's Asg say? I'm guessing it wasn't that <Xiphosis[GOD]>and bets are, neither was GATO. <Hyp>Asgaard said that they were sorry, but that they could not defend us against NPO due to being dragged into defend NoR, \m/, and AzN <Hyp>we understood that <Hyp>and wished them well <Xiphosis[GOD]>rofl <Xiphosis[GOD]>so they defected. <Hyp>defected from what <Hyp>we are not some all controlling entitity <Xiphosis[GOD]>you. <Hyp>they can do what the $%&@ they want <Xiphosis[GOD]>anytime an MDP partner says they can not defend you <Xiphosis[GOD]>they have defected <Xiphosis[GOD]>spit on your tie <Xiphosis[GOD]>that's what that is. <Hyp>defecting suggests that we are their leader. We are not. We are an equal partnership. <Xiphosis[GOD]>No <Xiphosis[GOD]>It suggests you two comprise an organization <Xiphosis[GOD]>and that they have left <Xiphosis[GOD]>and they did. <Xiphosis[GOD]>You're implying meaning that isn't there. <Hyp>what I do know is this <Hyp>we asked Asg for help on NPO, they informed us they were not able to due to previous committments that would chain to them first <Hyp>we then asked them to not hit any of our allies <Hyp>and they said ok, and that they would not <Hyp>what you don't udnerstand, xiph <Hyp>is that there are ways to support each other <Hyp>other than betraying the trust of other partners <Hyp>and that SOMETIMES, those partners can get put into !@#$%* situations <Hyp>that no matter what they lose <Xiphosis[GOD]>what I'm trying to get you to understand <Hyp>and that in those cases, those partner's allies need to understand their position. <Xiphosis[GOD]>is that while yes <Xiphosis[GOD]>there /are/ other ways <Xiphosis[GOD]>those other ways <Xiphosis[GOD]>are only taken <Xiphosis[GOD]>at mutual consent <Xiphosis[GOD]>not one side <Xiphosis[GOD]>or it's straight up leaving someone knee-deep in mud <Xiphosis[GOD]>and that is what happened last night <Hyp>if i recall last night, you were fine with me trying to get Fark/MHA to help <Xiphosis[GOD]>Hyp <Xiphosis[GOD]>I was so wired my nerves were literally pulsing <Hyp>and I'm pretty sure me trying to get 20 millions NS to back you isn't leaving you knee deep in mud <Xiphosis[GOD]>I didn't have /time/ to be mad <Hyp>that's not throwing you a rope, that's getting you a god damn crane <Xiphosis[GOD]>I know <Xiphosis[GOD]>and I said that <Xiphosis[GOD]> <Xiphosis[GOD]>still missing the point <Hyp>oh no <Hyp>i get it <Hyp>activating defense clauses without planning first > not !@#$@#$ over everyone we know <Xiphosis[GOD]>no, for gods sake <Hyp>then what ARE you saying <Xiphosis[GOD]>RIA getting directly attacked matters more than your not-being-attacked-allies allies. <Xiphosis[GOD]>one directly obligates Sparta and one doesn't. <Xiphosis[GOD]>that's just basic <Xiphosis[GOD]>but you went with the latter over the former <Xiphosis[GOD]>and that's serious !@#$ that has to be addressed <Xiphosis[GOD]>because people are counting on you and we have to know we can <Xiphosis[GOD]>the faith got kicked in the nuts <Xiphosis[GOD]>for Athens' sake <Hyp>fine, we're not going anywhere with this <Hyp>mind if post these logs for tulak/luka to read <Xiphosis[GOD]>I'd rather you did Hyp>alright <Hyp>obviously you and I disagree, but Tulak/Luka will be on to weigh in further on whatever position they see fit <Hyp>sometime tonight <Xiphosis[GOD]>alright man <Hyp>if you need anything else let us know <Xiphosis[GOD]>same

Well, for starters ODN is still around. GOONS, NoR, and VE are in their second incarnation. NPO and IRON are still big, as are Fark, MHA, Sparta, and TOP. People still don't like anything with the word "order" in the name, and Pacifica/Polar are beaten down annually. CN still isn't a good game, but they've added a few new toys to play with...sort of. Oh, and first strike nuking is standard now. Anyone got anything else?

Interesting lines being drawn. Now just waiting on the NoR treaty.

Send me your seller Kevin. Next deal is on me. Extra points for creativity btw.

100 tech to the first guy to post NSO's warchests. Go.

Yes, I know I'm late. I've been busy . Congrats to all ya'll on making this happen. Also, hai Crym/Timb/Feanor/all of GRE/Kage/anyone I forgot. PF is a quality bloc as long as you peeps are in it. I'm jelly.

I think that MK shouldn't be grouped with PB these days (I know I'm a hypocrite). DH is still tight, but MK is hardly an alliance to be firmly attached to one bloc or another to the point of grouping their stats (except arguably with C&G). You might as well put them with Dos Equis. DoomplexX has gotta break 50 mil somehow, right?

I hate you so, so much Jenne.

Tulak should have disbanded you when he had the chance.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1311468618' post='2762442'] Why hello there, greenacres. It's been awhile. For the record, nobody has ever listened to me. [/quote] and yet you keep talking.

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1311234477' post='2760400'] We needed someone to break the mould and start changing things up a little bit in hurrr... May as well have been Legacy And to everyone saying this stops people being able to predict the next war. Next war will be XX & NpO Vs Non Grata because they hate our guts. [/quote] No, we only really "hate" NSO (and some of us aren't fond of Eastern Europeans to a degree). We were !@#$@#$ pissed about what you did to Fark, but hate is a pretty strong word. It's more like... "philosophically differentiate"

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1311232994' post='2760393'] Yep, because even my allies knew we wouldnt have anything to do with fighting for or with you two faced !@#$%*^ after the !@#$ you pulled, and guess what? They understood... [/quote] (thanks for that btw. Made our job a lot easier)

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1311232241' post='2760388'] If Legacy were truly 'cowardly' they would have retained the SF ties and not dropped them, they then could claim neutrality in any war between SF/Mj because of 'conflicts'. Instead, by your own words, they have picked a 'side', which by definition put them against the other 'side'.....so what Legacy has done here tonight may be a lot of things cowardice isnt the foundation. [/quote] I wouldn't say they are politically cowards, but they are militarily pansies (or, rather, the stronger word). Have fun working in a coalition with an alliance that is afraid of chaining for alliances that actually do the fighting (taking damage sucks ).

[quote name='commander thrawn' timestamp='1311228266' post='2760348'] But if Legacy are on our side, and Sparta has an MDoAP with Asgaard... then... wait a minute who decided these "sides" again? [/quote] Negro please. You and us are on our own side.

Well at least we know who Legacy thinks is going to win now. I hope for their sakes they chose correctly. edit: Actually, no I don't. Hoping we lose would be contrary to my interests. So...grrrr Legacy?

[quote name='Buzz Lightyear' timestamp='1311192097' post='2759914'] next year. no one wants to do anything right now cuz there are 2 new powerful alliances and a new bloc and everyone needs to see where they all stand [/quote] Oh trust me, we know where MJ stand

At this point all of the major players have been around long enough not to do something stupid (or at least the vast majority of them aren't that stupid). We're all just waiting for a screw up that won't happen, because whoever gives a legit CB to the other side opens the door for fringe alliances to claim disgust and join the other coalition in some random out-side support role on an equally random alliance. So, to avoid losing those fringe assets, neither side is making any aggressive plays that could be twisted into an excuse for said fringe assets to back the enemy. The result of that is, quite frankly, nothing. If we all want this war to start any time soon, it's going to take one of the power players pulling a Doomhouse and hitting their enemy just because "They're a !@#$%* and we don't like them". Beyond that, it just aint gonna happen. fake edit: It could happen if some nooby protectorate screws with a different nooby protectorate, but that is pretty unlikely after the SOS thing made everyone keep their side kicks on tighter leashes. Doesn't mean I can't hope though.

NoR protecting TGE? Somebody better go get Satan a winter jacket.

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1311033941' post='2758821'] I find your entire alliance amusing. Don't you? [/quote] We are an interesting bunch. Anyway, I think we've sufficiently derailed this. Have fun talking about whatever the hell the real discussion in this thread is.

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1311033706' post='2758816'] The consequences of not having 4 years of flipping to the winning side to help bloat our stats I suppose! [/quote] You fought on Karma's side too bro.