Lanore

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335778902' post='2961088'] "FARK'S PREEMPT WAS REALLY BAD SO WE'RE GOING TO PREEMPT MHA DESPITE THE FACT THAT MHA'S OFFENSIVE CAPACITY IS KNOWN TO BE LIMITED" seriously. [/quote] [spoiler] So there's this big family reunion just before Christmas. Everyone is attending for the most part, except for a few. You see a war has broken out between some of our distant cousins the Avengers and the U.S.S.P . Everyone is so happy to see each other though. We really don't get together enough, you know? We all have our own opinions of the war but we've decided to be polite for the meal and family time so things go smoothly. That us until Granddad Pacifica starts debating with a few of the youngsters about politics, as he is want to do. He states during the debate that he supports the Avengers. Well a few of the relatives are shocked but pass it off. Granddad NPO has always had vocal political beliefs. He's just an old guy now anyway. However a few relatives are kind of hurt by this, mainly Fark and FAN. They have friends who are fighting and dying at the hands of the Avengers and they find his remarks to be very insensitive. Well after they simmer for a bit they decide to tackle granddad. Now Pap Pap Pacifica is strong for sure, be he's old, and just isn't the man he used to be. Sure enough big brother TLR and cousin NG, off of duty for a bit shortly after having joined the navy and the marines respectively, decide to jump into the fight to help out Granddad. In short order, like most of my family reunions, everyone is fighting and screaming at each other. GATO, ODN, and MHA are sitting the fight out, watching everyone get at it. For the most part GATO/ODN/MHA have been asked to stay out of the fight by our big bro's, TLR and Fark. They say they might need help later, and that they don't want us to hurt ourselves. It's a fair assessment, since the three of us are a bit more soft around the waist compared to our relatives fighting. So we stand back and cheer from the side lines, waiting for the fight to end so we can all eat dinner. MHA however is worried. Their Big Bros Fark and Sparta are getting beat up, and they don't know what to do. They get nervous, start wringing their hands, and looking around frantically for some form of inspiration. This is when it happens. They see a rock on the ground. They bend over to pick it up, intending to throw it at our cousin NG. GATO and ODN see MHA bend down and grab the rock, and we fear that he is going to hurt TLR. Sure it is a small rock. It will only do a limited amount of damage, but we are worried all the same. Within the second it took him to pick it up, we played the scenario over in our heads a million times. Feuled on Adrenaline and fear, GATO balls up his fist and slams MHA in the throat with it, and then after he drops the rock, ODN tackles him. The fight continues and then all our friends get involved. After the fight, though MHA, Fark, and RnR were cool about it, Sparta took it personally. You see he'd had a crush on ODN for a while. He felt hurt and betrayed that ODN, one of his best friends, would fight with MHA, his other best friend. ODN and GATO tried to explain that we felt we had to. We even, in several different occasions apologized for various areas we thought went wrong. But Sparta holds onto the grudge even though we never wanted to fight at all. Now everyone feels like crap except for certain groups in the family that support each other, and nobody will talk to one another. In a year or so I guess we will all forgive and have another family reunion around Christmas, because that is how it seems to work. God I hate family reunions. [/spoiler]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY2W1_jkRT8]Everyday I'm !@#$postin'[/url]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335424625' post='2959650'] Given that this has been something on the table for a year +, I think Natan and I can get some of the credit. :> [/quote] That would be one legitimization too many :>

I like both alliances and so I congratulate you, though I had hoped for an MDoAP.

I'm not entirely sure how to feel about something when Brehon, Xiph, Roq, and Darth are all happy about the same thing.

GOONS WAE BEST WAE

Holy Crap I am just now realizing how many people GATO put into the revolution.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335247372' post='2958367'] People are cast aside when their usefulness is no longer there. [/quote] This clashes with the treaty web. [quote] bold pragmatism wins. [/quote] Can I hire you to do GATO's PR? Seriously. Going from " Malevolent Sociopathy and Cynicism " to " Bold Pragmatism" is amazing.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335245835' post='2958356'] I'm not really positing any secret organizations or anything. I'm simply saying those with the most political influence will tend to go after people. What I do posit is that frequently people who have already been on the other side frequently will allow past squabbles to get in the way of cooperation and it lends itself to a divide and conquer strategy. [/quote] You also state or imply several times that an individual's treaties outside of a certain core don't matter. Or that alliances with less political capital don't exert themselves on those with more. Or that those you consider to be the "ring leaders" pull the heartstrings of other alliances to sway the judgement of spheres of influence with no feedback, pushback, argument, or compromise. You belittle the efforts and influences of other spheres of power because they, in your opinion, were too small and inconsequential. This completely ignores that participating parties knew what they were getting into and are mostly happy with the outcome. It also ignores that at the end of the day nobody gets exactly what they want in politics, nobody. You settle for "close enough". The idea that, ultimately my allies don't matter, or at the end of the day only matter in so much as they benefit specific elements of my coalition, and ultimately they can be cast aside, is indeed a radical and fringe belief. I will always treat it like one. [quote] Machiavellian worldviews are the ones the alliances that wield political power(keep wield) in mind operate on. The losers and potential losers of wars frequently aren't machiavellian enough to compete and that's why those who are willing to see the world in Machiavellian terms tend to win. [/quote] As I said they are off the mark though. The idea is that " Everyone is a predator, altruism doesn't exist, everyone is out to get you" and so you become a predator yourself to stay alive. The problem with this idea is that while yes, we're a predatory species, and yes, we are a self motivated species, we are also a social species. Everybody is predatory, and everyone is completely self consumed, that does not mean though they are entirely malevolent. Machiavellian practices work not because everyone is a predator and you are finally acting like one as well. They work because actual malevolence and evil aren't common traits in mankind and so people don't expect the fact that you are actually a !@#$@#$ sociopath.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335244620' post='2958321'] Like how is it anywhere near a conspiracy theorist? I'm not really putting forth any radical claims. I'm more upfront about them, but the only things I've really stated is that C&G is intimately tied to DH/PB. I've also stated there's always some political dynamic involved going on and it existed before the last war even happened, and everyone knew about it even before. I mean stating things in clear terms does piss people off since they don't want to hear about their ally is an MK toadie or stuff like that, but it's more the bluntness that is at issue than the actual claims. That's where it's not mainstream since a lot of people aren't really ready for it. [/quote] I was just trying to make the point. You're actually more akin to a revolutionary/freedom fighter in mentaility, which is still a type of fringe loony in the right cases. It's the NWO man. They control what you eat, when you sleep, what you watch/hear/read, and what you think, man. They've got control man and unless we step up it's over. GAME OVER MAN. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4eEGeqC-8M]Roq Roq, fight da powah! [/url] I also take issue with what seems to be your political belief system, that is something modeled off a Machiavellian world view. At least from what I see and how I interpret it. The problem is that such a world view while having a solid basis is somewhat off the mark.

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1335238806' post='2958275'] You're both awful. No one likes you. Roll GATO and NPO. [/quote] At least neither of us are allied to those crap heaps called TLR or ODN.

[quote name='Scorponok' timestamp='1335233889' post='2958205'] Not too long before that MDoAP then :3 [/quote] That'll be the day indeed. [IMG]http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Lanore2012/Reaction/omg.png[/IMG]

[i]ooc: Just so you know Roq when I called you a fringe loony it had no ooc conotations. I meant that entirely within the political realm of this world, the same way I would call a 9/11 truther a fringe loony elsewhere. That was entirely me, IC, calling you a loony for your also IC beliefs. I actually don't know a thing about you ooc. /ooc[/i]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1335232755' post='2958192'] If only there were a more direct, efficient way of becoming aligned with a group of alliances all at once. [/quote] I know right? If only you could sign a treaty with an entire group at once. Sort of create a local neighborhood or "block" or treaties. That isn't really conventional though. It'd never work.

So I take a break for a day and look what gets announced. Ok time for a few shoutouts: Brehon&Baka: It's been a pleasure working with you two. You've been extremely open and communicative and I like that. You've easily been one of our most vocal allies even at a PIAT level and that was amazing. The history and culture between our alliances only enrich this relationship. Roq: Glad you like my choice of aesthetics. I love themed treaties a lot. I was particularly happy with each alliance's mottos blending into each other to make the articles of the treaty. I figured a formal military treaty between our alliances deserved to be cultural and poetic (not saying I'm a good poet however). Lordliam: Proper congratulations are proper. Everyone else going on about "NPO meat shield" : GATO doesn't do meat shields, period. This is just silly I shouldn't have to argue about this. Edit: Jrenster, Letum, and Zeta are all awesome too.

I'm fairly certain if a GATOan wanted to raid and requested permission to do so they would have to show their intended target wasn't of a protected AA via forums, bio, and wiki. If you are in a micro or a protectorate alliance, you should probably have "protected by x " in your bio, or a wiki page on your AA and an owf announcement. The wiki is probably the easiest way seeing as the forums can be a bit of a pain to dig through sometimes. Similarly your protectorate alliance should make sure your treaty is in their wiki. (you'd be surprised how many wiki pages aren't up to date at all. ) If you are a raider you should do your homework on who you are about to hit. Similarly you should be ready to pay the piper if you hit somebody you shouldn't have and they actually had an announcement/wiki/bio entry.

Happy B-Day Europa.

[quote name='lordliam' timestamp='1335146847' post='2957526'] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkRFwIeTBy4 Congratulations! That flag looks awesome, I'll be using it soon hopefully! [/quote] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyFQVZ2h0V8 better imo

The April Revolution was a success. After ascending to their true glory the global proletariat threw down their national differentiations and now commit to residing where they please, knowing that their national affiliation is of no importance. The centralized vision of government has been shattered and the utopia we realized is here. For those who gave up their worldly vestiges to achieve this goal, we present a medal: [IMG]http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Lanore2012/the_intl_flag_camp.png[/IMG] The groups that shouldered this revolution will remain nameless, as this is an award to the global proletariat from the global proletariat. Only true communists whom have shouldered the revolution may wear it in dignity and honor.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335133476' post='2957348'] The issue is, you are worried about me being legitimized and you said as much. [/quote] This is essentially true but you're a bit off the mark. I could care less about international legitimization, you'll hang yourself on that one on your own. Anyways I'm done now, because this really isn't the place for this.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335132761' post='2957338'] Oh man, the insanity accusations again. Legitimization is a serious concern. [/quote] The sanity of your political views and how mainstream they are are clearly portrayed by your impressive rallying call to arms and the sheer numbers and weight that have joined your cause. The number of honorable and prestigious alliances merging into your flagship alliance for this cause or MDoAPing you in support of your endeavors show the weight of your words and impact of your message. CnG is quivering in fear of you and we are literally contemplating dropping some of the blocs oldest and most politically relevant ties in order to avoid the coming karma they have earned against them. We're trying but being anything more than a puppet is just so hard. We're terrified of how we will make it with a mind of our own. Without guidance from outside of our bloc, from the political masterminds we have become so dependent on, we are afraid we won't survive, yet we are too afraid to disband. Please have mercy upon our inaction. We're just so afraid of a life without our masters.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335131171' post='2957323'] Well, the thing is, I maintained a similar stance until ShouAS brought up that you are not allowed to have negative opinions of NsO treaty partners if you want to maintain a PIAT. Man, I really wish those kind of standards applied universally. [/quote] I don't think it's really trashing. I think it has more to do with the fact that you have sworn our destruction by proxy, claimed that GATO and her allies were a "glass parkinglot" and that you intended to brush us off like dandruff on your shoulder (paraphrasing), amongst other grievances. If this were about you ragging on our FA choices, war ability, internal organization, ect, we'd simply blow you off. We get tons of people like that. Tell the truth GATO would have been happy to ignore you and your anti DH crusade but you keep managing to piss in our cheerios. So no, it isn't that you can't express negative opinions about an ally's allies. I'm going to guess that it has more to do with giving a PIAT to some fringe loony who is actively plotting the destruction of your friends and allies being a bad idea and one legitimization too many. At least that's my guess. NsO is fully capable of speaking for itself.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335125966' post='2957278'] in conclusion: I still think GATO is !@#$ [/quote] You know it's funny I managed to keep myself on a leash about trashing this thread and wishing you luck. [IMG]http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Lanore2012/Rarity/jeeze.png[/IMG]

[quote name='Jens of the desert' timestamp='1335096224' post='2957087'] I love how everyone thinks this is real. [/quote] When someone tells me they consider certain people to be close friends, I tend to believe them. Benefit of the doubt and all that. Especially considering NsO doesn't have a history of lying to me.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335087224' post='2957056'] Might make sense for NATO to have like guidelines. Like raiding in Umbrella has really strict guidelines. No raiding alliances above 12 members and no raiding without gov approval. [/quote] In GATO raiding requires approval from the MoD and AC. No requirements for size of AA/ect. We leave it up to the judgement of our elected gov. ( Because God if they aren't smart enough to handle that decision we have bigger problems )