Argin

VE, UMB and MK, although really in my opinion these alliances are already among the "best" Edit: Also, if they had been a choice, Argent

Really really sorry to hear this, best of luck to you NoFish.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282620148' post='2428703'] [color="#0000FF"] As for debating, I'm not here to debate. I'm here to state the truth, and the truth is not up for debate.[/color] [/quote] Says the man who refuses to discuss facts and argues using nothing more than your own beliefs derived from false propaganda.

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282619334' post='2428691'] If GOONS 2.0 is so different than 1.0 why is this Viridia's first oDoAP? In all honesty, I find this whole proclamation of friendship and newly found commonality to be a load of beans. This is cold realpolitik, nothing more, and I am going to need some taller boots if I keep reading heartfelt protests that this is not the case. Or I could just be like Sal Paradise and not be surprised. [/quote] Ok if this is real-politik please explain this to me, how is this treaty politically beneficial to us? By making several of our closest allies doubt their relations with us?

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282619225' post='2428689'] [color="#0000FF"]There is a difference between being unpopular and truly being scum.[/quote] There isn't in the context of the argument I'm making which is that both NPO and GOONS were highly unpopular and in both cases VE became allies with them anyway, again proving that our values have not changed. [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282619225' post='2428689'] I do not care to get into a debate about VE's values, as I do not waste time bickering over things which do not exist.[/quote] That's funny because just about every post you've made in this thread has been about VE's values, how they have changed, or how they don't exist. Why did you waste so much time arguing about something that you do not care to get into? [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282619225' post='2428689'] But the fact remains you are not the alliance you used to be. Not since Impero took over and took big ol' steamy one on everything that the VE used to stand for. You've been impatient, aggressive, tough talking, and drawn to the lowest of this world ever since. [/quote] The fact remains that everything you have said has been nothing more that politically motivated propaganda which has been disproven by actual facts. And again considering you have never been a member of VE, that I have been a life-long member of VE, that I was Lord of the VE in a time that you considered it "righteous", that I did not even support this treaty but I am still arguing that it's signing signifies a continuation of the same values which we have held for years; I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that again you choose to ignore the truth of what VE has stood for because it does not meet your current political intrests.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282618208' post='2428649'] [color="#0000FF"]No, I am saying your facts are irrelevant. The political atmosphere was much different, and neither CDS nor the NPO of the time could be considered scum alliances. The same cannot be said for GOONS.[/quote] How are facts that directly show the opposite of what you have said irrelevant? And you may not have considered NPO a scum alliance but just about everybody else in CN did, hence VE went against the popular political beliefs of CN and went with it's values, just as it is here. [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282618208' post='2428649'] [color="#0000FF"]As for VE, VE was not afraid to stand up for its principles back then, and it died for those. These days you're just opportunistic cowards hiding behind a curtain of fake virtue. I am not fool. [/quote] I think it become quite apparent that you have absolutely no idea what VE's principles are so please don't try to give me a history lesson about my own alliance, we fought for our beliefs then and we fight for our beliefs now, just as we did in Karma, just as I am doing right now posting in this thread arguing with you. [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282618208' post='2428649'] [color="#0000FF"]Also, I have no political interests.[/color][/quote] I think it's quite apparent to everyone good sir that your statements include just about no sense of truth, but please if you wish to continue showing everyone just how foolish you are I ask you to continue.

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282618027' post='2428644'] Um, that's impossible. Every action one has the capacity to reference is in the past. [/quote] I'm not sure what you're stating, was that in reference to the incorrect word choice in my last post? (Which has been corrected now)

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282617569' post='2428628'] A person's or an alliance's past actions don't mean squat to you. [/quote] If you're truley curios, no, that is not the meaning. The meaning of the quote is that all problems of the past can be resolved and that good relations in the past do not guarantee good relations in the future. All of our actions are based on the facts of the present.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282617462' post='2428620'] [color="#0000FF"]No, you simply have nothing worthwhile to say. VE was a different alliance in 2006 and 2007. It was respectable in those days, and for brief interludes in the following two years depending on the Lord. But you haven't had a decent one in long, long while, and I've had a deep hatred of you ever since you became a tough guy alliance. I hate tough guys.[/color] [/quote] So when faced with facts that contradict what you have said you simply disregard them as not worthwhile? As someone who was lord of the VE between 2006 and 2007 let me assure your fears and say again the VE has not changed, your political interests have.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282616235' post='2428552'] [color="#0000FF"]Believe me, the fact that we're at war has nothing to do with my feelings toward VE. I've not been overly fond of your alliance for a long time, and my feelings about GOD are much stronger. Despite this war, on the other hand, I still have a fair amount of respect for RnR and RoK. Wonder why. Can't have anything to do with the way they conduct themselves can it? As for my opinions, I doubt they will influence your policy, but I will voice them nonetheless. I could care less if you like what you hear.[/color] [color="#0000FF"]What kind of rubbish is this? Effort for peace? Going to you and talking to you is not showing enough effort to end a war that [i]you started[/i]. Please, I'm not stupid. I know exactly what you're doing with your "Mercy" Board and so do you. The only people buying into this delusion are you and those who find it useful to keep thugs like yourself around.[/color] [/quote] Why do you refuse to respond to me, does my mere presence leave you speechless?

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282616603' post='2428571'] There's more to the Viridicide history and everyone in here knows it or should know it. As for me, I like how several of you want to change the record from "objected to the war and did not participate" to "sat by and watched." I also get a kick out of how the 2nd VE wants to write the NpO out of their founding history. Meh? [/quote] I was part of the Viridicide and I think I understand fairly well the history of that time. No one is trying to erase NpO from VE's history but there's a oft-used quote in VE that goes something like this "You're past actions with us do not guarantee a future with us," the opposite of this quote applies as well.

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282615714' post='2428529'] Sat by and watched? Yeah, okay, whatever there Mr Toynbee. [/quote] Repeat what I said and then make a non-sensible reference? Sounds like a grade A post filled with an actual response.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282615545' post='2428525'] [color="#0000FF"]Do you care to tell me what this has to do with the current conflict at all? I know we're at war, but really, what does this have to do with that? Does the fact I think VE has been wildly hypocritical and opportunistic for the last year turn me into a crying little girl all of a sudden?[/color] [color="#0000FF"]I'm glad to see you're buying into GOONS' rationalization for their nonsense. I'd hate to see you two best friends spewing off different lines. Might make you look a little inconsistent. Wouldn't want that now would we?[/color] [/quote] Way to read one line and create your own delusional beliefs about things. I do not support their Mercy Board and I don't think it's moral, but if you had been paying attention you would know that we're willing to be friends with anyone no matter their stance on things. You know it's too bad you never take the time to respond to my writing that actually contain facts, wouldn't you mind responding to this: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=91167&view=findpost&p=2428489 Pretty please, if it's not too much?

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1282615265' post='2428510'] There should be a prize for this level of ignorance. The NpO did not participate in the Viridicide like the GOONS did AND they helped the 2nd VE reform. I mean wow, really? What are they teaching kids in school these days? [/quote] It's funny how you ignored the fact that he said "sat by and watched" and not "actively participated in". It's allso funny how you ignored that Goon Order of Neutral Shoving is not the same as Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282605716' post='2428255'] [color="#0000FF"]VE has abandoned its past as an alliance of virtue over the last year, preferring instead to brand itself as some sort of tough guy alliance that doesn't care what you think. It has fallen along way from the VE of old, and does a great deal of dishonor to the name of a great alliance.[/color] [/quote] It's funny I remember people acting similarly when we were the first alliance to sign a treaty with NPO post-GWI, while at the same time we were seriously considering merging with CDS, an alliance completely on the other side of the political spectrum; and as far as I remember that treaty was signed within the first year of our existence. The truth is that VE's values and beliefs have not changed, we've always been willing to be allies with anyone regardless of their moral views or political standing, the only thing that has changed is that it is no longer in your political interest to support what we or GOONS do. I pray that these values of Viridia last till its end and that her membership never gives up her beliefs in the face of politically motivated, uneducated, and false statements made by propagandists such as yourself. And I say all of this as someone who did not even support this treaty. o/ GOONS o/ VE May our relationship thrive GOONS, I look forward to having an opportunity to defend you.

I don't blame NPO for this move, but at the same time I still support my friends in GATO and believe this move is a good one for them too. o/ Here's to canceling broken treaties

What no one realizes is that the STA protection and wars are also a joke.

Bravo STA

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1281417586' post='2409166'] People who join alliances generally get protection. This is why they join alliances. I know, VE doesn't really protect its members, but other alliances do care about their members. [/quote] Totally right on this count, VE never protects its members, hey why don't you attack one of them for fun, it's not like we'll do anything?

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1281400634' post='2408719'] South lake Tahoe, up by echolakes. [/quote] If I'm not mistaken that picture is taken from California and South lake tahoe is in California. Therefore I rule Nevada is still a desert.

[quote name='Acca Dacca' timestamp='1281412973' post='2409022'] [img]http://memegenerator.net/Garrus-Advice/ImageMacro/1678878/Garrus-Advice-SKY-ROCKETS-IN-FLIGHT-AFTERNOON-DELIGHT.jpg[/img] Only a few people actually know what this is talking about. [/quote] Best so far in my opinion for lols. As for serious propaganda I loved your stuff Tungsten

[quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1281412265' post='2409008'] Yeah, they made the hard choice of not telling NSO about the impending attack upon them, and using the knowledge against NSO by saying "You didn't tell us you knew you were going to get attacked!!" [/quote] They did tell NSO as was required of them by their treaty and NSO did know already that they would be attacked and as per their treaty were required to inform GATO. Why is it a bad thing to expect people to honor the promises they make in their treaties?

I haven't read the thread but I've heard you guys are getting a lot of flack for this so I just wanted to show you some love. To anyone criticizing GATO please remember that they also had allies on the other side, VE, and no matter what they had to make a hard choice. o/ GATO May you forever continue to thrive

My favorite memory of GGA was interacting with it's general membership and leadership, as well as the members of GPA and other green alliances of the time on the Green Team Forum on the old Cybernations forums. If for no other reason, I will miss you guys for these fun times we had long ago.

We had a lot of good and bad times, here's to all of the good times and to all of the times we had nothing but hope. Thank you to every Viridian who contributed to its war machine, its banks, its diplomatic corps, and most importantly of all to its culture. As a side note I'd please like to ask people who want to discuss the "continuity" issue to please take it to another thread. Weather you are defending or baiting us, please.