ktarthan
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Blog Comments posted by ktarthan
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The only time analogies are ever okay is in It's That Guy comics.
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right. you saw NPO as a threat and you aggressively attacked them. so the thinking is quite linear. the next time you see NPO as a threat you will aggressively attack them. i am not moving at all. i am using logical deduction. you are using the denial tactic and then a deflection because you lack any argument that can actually refute my logical deduction.
i could also go into what actually constitutes a threat being subjective. which means a threat to DH could be NPO having 100 nukes or having 100k tech or some such nonsense.
Me: Doom House doesn't see this as "trimming the hedges"
You: Then why did they post that exact line of thought in the DoW?
Me: They didn't post that in the DoW
You: They didn't have to, I can infer it
Unless you have a strange definition of "post" and/or "exact", then you're moving the target. If you don't want to admit that, then I don't want to even attempt to discuss this with you.
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why did they post that exact line of thought in their DoW?
The DoW said absolutely nothing about the future beyond this war.
it did not have to. your line of thought was quite obvious. "NPO THREAT!!!!!!!!!!! MUST DESTROY THEM WHENEVER THEY ARE A THREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Sorry, I don't feel like debating with a moving target.
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if DH did not have that line of thought, why did they post that exact line of thought in their DoW? can't say that this line of thought is not true, since there is a DH DoW on NPO with that exact line of thought used.
The DoW said absolutely nothing about the future beyond this war. Sure you can divine whatever meanings you want from it, but the fact is the only people saying that DH will come after NPO again aren't in DH.
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You compare the NPO tabloid propaganda to your leadership rabblerousing?
Like comparing apples to solenoids. One is a purpose built satire with full intent to entertain a certain audience. The other looks to be a genuine appeal to everyone to agree with your point of view.
Worse you realize without your lame soapboxing you would have nothing to offer at all. You aren't adding any value to OWF with these announcements other than feeding the trolls like pigeons in a park. You post these white bread attempts at grandstanding and the trolls flock over, pick at it, and crap all over the pavement. Adding value would actually shutting up already with these attempts. Accept your inability to post weighty pronouncements that cause everyone to take serious notice. All DH leadership seems to manage when they try this is look more clownish, which reflects on the entire lot of you. Coupled with the PR disasters in the war's other closing front the entire operation has turned your management into laughingstocks. You actually managed to achieve the exact opposite of your intention with this. You managed to shut up the low level rumbling from those of us in hippie mode itching to fight. Now that we know it pisses you off so much we are far more content to lay back and operate on our leaders' time table. Saying nothing might have got you your wish sooner.
You guys have become our "straight men" feeding us our comedy lines. The more shovel us the easy lines the more humorous it becomes to us.
If you don't learn to shut up in public you can expect a lot more of these PR fiascoes.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you missed the point.
It doesn't matter what we post, it's trollbait nonetheless. Saying we should stop making announcements that are going to get buried under crap is the same as telling us to not make announcements. The GOONS-VE ODP thread got to about 30 pages. We aren't starting circular debates with ourselves.
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ITB Schattenman tells me to burn in Hell over CN.
To be fair, I think he actually told you to freeze in hell.
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Two months ago my opinion changed. Due to the vague nature of Archon's ~CB~, an attack could take place, by DoomHouse reasoning, the instant we are thought to be a threat. I can't take credit for this line of one of our alliances members, but I get the feeling that DoomHouse's leadership views "Pacifica as a shurb that needs to be periodically trimmed back." A long extended conflict is probably our best bet for deterring future aggression on us and our allies. If you know you're going to get a year long war of occupation every time you declare war, you'll at least show a little pause.
If that's what you truly believe, that I can at least understand the logic behind it. I don't believe that is Doom House's leadership's view, but eh, your brain.
I also suspect after the one month of war specified in the terms, we would also have to make one of those "we admit defeat" statements. We would then get another drawn out thread about how making a "we admit defeat" statement is/is not "white peace." As much as we all love those circular argument threads, I think I'll pass.
This seems a little silly though. You don't want to surrender/admit defeat because it'll spawn a long thread? That's just petty.
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RV is $200m in Canadian Tire money.
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Being counterattacked was clearly an anticipated move by the GOONS Government, they didn't make the decision to go to war lightly. But they had already set a precedent to only request reparations from alliance whom have attacked us regardless of the circumstances which led to that counterattack. To quote a famous man, I might be wrong but I'm certain GOONS have not requested reparations from a war they initiated. And those aggressive wars in and of themselves are a rare event.
To be 100% correct, we did get some reps from NATO in Bi-Polar which we used an oA chain to get in on, but it was a singular instance that isn't part of official policy or protocol. IE: Not a repetitious circumstance.
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Protip: quit making silly announcements that are sure to get buried in scores of pages of crap and you won't have to see them anymore.
If we took this advice, you would never see us any more, as this would mean never making any announcements at all. Please don't blame the people attempting to add value to the OWF experience.
To elaborate: I think that NPO's publication is in general quite terrible, but do you know what I do? Leave well enough alone, and let the people enjoy it.
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I should not have to spell out the way that name-calling, sharp insults, and outright rudeness affect DISCOURSE. That is the topic of your blog ... Stifling Discourse. Discourse is stifled when a person meets those kinds of posts every damn time they show up on the owf.
To elaborate on the "soap-box" comment, I was referring to the explanation of your side of the story of events that happened in January which doesn't relate to this discussion. Not the entirety of your post.
Aside from that, it might just be me being pedantic, but I still view comments like that as a different issue. Still an issue warranting discussion, but different.
To distil the subject of my OP: I am discussing tactics used to put forward an agrument while stifling the ability of anyone to attempt discourse/debate, and the negative effect it has on politics as a whole. That's the specific context of the words used in the title. Taking a term from an earlier comment, I could have titled the blog post "Thought-stopping Language" just the same.
In the comments that you point out, their opinion is for the most part "We don't like Peggy Sue". These are insults, not arguments. This is where the main distinction lies. I'm not attempting to discuss the merits of these insults but rather their relevance to my OP as an academic exercise.
To give my specific opinion on that subject: Yes I agree that consistent harassment of a person is likely to push them away from the OWF, which I don't think is really ever a good thing. But the catch here is that that's specifically what they want, so making a statement of "Insulting people and telling them to leave is likely to make them leave" isn't going to accomplish much.
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I have no idea what this is in reference to.
NSO can have our rep offer to them cut from $300M to $100M if they let us annex RV for 30 days.
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*snip*
This is an interesting place for you to soap-box an issue from January, but sure, get it off your chest. Really though, the examples you linked to aren't really what I'm talking about there - they're just people being jerks. Being a jerk and using disingenous argument tactics aren't intrinsically linked (although if you use the latter, you're probably the former.) In fact, the wickedj post you linked actually goes ahead and explains the reasons for his opinion. He's not nice about it, but the discussion continues.
Everyone being jerks isn't a desirable outcome, and I very rarely condone baseless insults; I just want people to understand the difference between that and the topic of my blog.
The discourse on this planet will never improve because it is too easy to let out the negative behaviors we all keep bottled up on Planet Earth. Is that a real person on the other side of the keyboard? No! Of course not! It is only a collection of pixels and text and the awful things we do to one another have no effect on real people.
This, however, is a good point. The veil of anonymity and the barrier of the physical world is what makes a lot of very negative things possible. It's always a good idea to try and remember that if we were all face-to-face, the discussions we have would sound very different. But I would also like to hope that if the events here were to have a significant impact on a person, that that person would have the sense to remove themselves from the situation.
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2. Sarcasm (without a point).
This one I was considering adding, but I feel it halfway belongs in a different category of "offending behavior." It doesn't as much stifle the debate as much as it is entirely unproductive. It is still generally unwarranted though, and is actually the one thing I have to check myself on most often. It gets bonus points though, for likely being one of, if not the most prolific annoyances.
The others you posted I entirely agree with. Attacking spelling and grammar is just a back-door ad hom, and the naysaying of bitter vets is a particularly annoying subset of "Unsubstantiated Claims".
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Technically the $200 million is only for 30 days, so I'd say your full monetary value is much higher.
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I was inspired to post this in another thread, but I feel it is worth repeating for this blog:
This just in: Anything anyone says for the rest of time is now considered crying. Now that it's the official baseline, I suggest the new go-to verb for casting someone's opinion in a negative light be "queen waving", using the disconnect between a modern monarchy existing in otherwise democratic societies to symbolize the distance between what goes on on the OWF and actual political discourse.Example usage:
We got plenty of people wavin' like the queen all up in this thread.
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I didn't go out drinking last night but I simulated the hangover by only sleeping for two hours.
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I’m a product of the OWF environment. If you really cared you would clean up your own back yard before complaining about the conditions of your neighbours back yard.
I am commenting on the state of all political discussion, on both sides. I only singled you out after you tried to tie the problem to a specific source.
Can we stop using the word literally for emphasis?
I will literally never stop doing this on purpose.
This one kills me. It happens to pretty much every post I write.
Anyway, I think this blog is good, but it would be super if it wasn't coming from a high-profile member of an alliance whose idea of how to solve problems is to make people grovel before them for their entertainment.
Were you being ironic on purpose, or did you just not read the blog?
Schatt, why you gotta bring this in my house?
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Glad to see someone from GOONS speaking out about this, especially as that part of the treaty web is notorious for injecting such things into a discussion to kill the debate. Though we are not innocent of it either.
To be completely honest I'm sure that both sides are "notorious" for this... to the other side. It's part of our psychology as humans to excuse in ourselves and our friends the exact same things we'll condemn others for.
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I agree with what you're saying. Reading the endless arguement and counter-arguement that we've all already seen is a bit of a chore and might not be healthy for the game. Hence why I usually only read OP's.
It'll be really tough to change peoples habits in such a competitive enviroment though.
I agree; I don't honestly expect this to make a significant impact by itself, but hopefully if enough people do care there can be some change down the line.
I have been guilty of some of these in the past myself, but didn't notice at the time because I just wasn't thinking about it. If I can bring the issue to the front of even a couple brains, I'll be satisfied.
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U mad? stop whining. Seriously though, you are a GOON and tied to MK its your friends doing most of what you said
I did say that I see it on both sides. I tend to notice it more on the other side, but I didn't put that in the OP because I can hardly call myself an unbiased source.
That being said:
Problem is that everyone knows you wont do it alone. You will get your allies to come in for you or accept hundreads of ghosts.
You are also part of the problem.
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The assignment of SethB to NPO was at best a stupid decision and at worst--and more likely--deliberate provocation.
Regardless, the way they responded was not what I could call being "adult" under any circumstances.
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Did you see what happened when SethB went to extend a hand to NPO from VE?
edit: in case you didn't, let's just say it was exponentially worse received than our first expedition to FARK.
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Edited, and yes, you do have that many slots, i have been keeping track of the umbrella/mk to goons aid ever since i noticed it, 1 billion every round has held steady.
Haha I meant that we don't have enough slots to recieve 1 billion million in aid. Just being cheeky.
It's that guy!
in It's That Guy!
A blog by Dr Beefstupid in General
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