silentkiller

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='26 April 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1272238023' post='2275015'] So then, here's the million dollar question. Have you done anything other than whine about it on the OWF? You have a situation you do not like, have you attempted any actual effort to see if the circumstances can change, or does all your diplomatic experience come from grade school playgrounds? [/quote] if I wasnt one of the 1k tech nations, sure I would have done something. As it is my hands are tied. Nice attack on character rather than the argument though. A few weeks ago I would have agreed with the circumstance change, now not so much. [quote]We're talking in circles here.[/quote] I never said you didnt do anything...infact I applaud everyone on that list for showing Gremlins that what they are doing is not acceptable. Just that your current actions are helping Gremlins. Now if your stance was that of VE that goldie posted. I.e the term can be negotiated then I dont think anyone would have a problem with FOK. Now I have one last question. please answer it in yes or no. Do you think your actions are helping Gremlins?

[quote name='Tromp' date='26 April 2010 - 12:24 AM' timestamp='1272237846' post='2275009'] And why would I release them from said term? Seems a little selfish from BAPS, what exactly does FOK gain from such a thing?[/quote] See above [quote]And I showed you that they share some of that blame, if you're willing to look at it as such. (And I don't think you should, it's pretty silly as I've said earlier in this thread.)[/quote] Sure I blame them for not being able to see the future. How dare they! [quote]I realize you guys might not ascribe to the whole "catching bees with honey" approach. But I really don't think you're going to catch any by pithily throwing insults at them and decrying them as Gramlins co-conspirators [/quote] I personally am not calling the "co-conspiriators" just that their actions are helping Gremlins(whether they want to or not). Just want Tromp to admit that little fact, which obviously he doesnt want to.

[quote name='Tromp' date='26 April 2010 - 12:20 AM' timestamp='1272237626' post='2275001'] I have explained why I wouldn't allow such a thing, yet I haven't seen anything from you that convinces me to revoke that term. So tell me, why should we exactly scrap that specific term. [/quote] Because you are claiming that you are not helping Gremlins? I'd say thats reason enough to release them. Wouldnt want to be liars now would we? Or you can just admit that your enforcing of the term is actually helping Gremlins.

[quote name='Penkala' date='26 April 2010 - 12:15 AM' timestamp='1272237296' post='2274990'] Allowing IRON's allies to attack Gremins is the [i]only[/i] avenue out of this situation we aren't allowing. IRON is the one balking at [i]all[/i] of the other options because they're "not comfortable". IRON could have had their allies help... [u]before they surrendered and signed non-reentry clauses.[/u] IRON could attack themselves. IRON could surrender (and let's be honest, [i]probably[/i] get pretty lenient terms). It's not our fault IRON has done none of the above. It's IRON's. We've said 'no' to one way of getting out of this. IRON's said 'no' to 3. [/quote] SO you(or FOK specifically) is helping Gremlins(doesnt matter if it is intentional or not), thank you. See it wasnt that hard to admit was it? [quote]The truth is you don't want peace for IRON right now. You want the PR benefits of being 'enslaved'[/quote] No what I want is FOK(as they are the only alliance until now that has refused to release BAPS from terms) to admit that they are actually helping Gremlins.

[quote name='Tromp' date='26 April 2010 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1272236963' post='2274978'] Yeah, thanks for admitting that you thought it was fine to surrender with such a term back then, but find it 'unacceptable' now. See, we're back to the post in which I replied to Haflinger. Don't you see how silly it is to make such a claim. Clearly I never left Gre behind on the field by signing the ES accords! When we were still at war with IRON, everybody was crying we should do something about it. We did do something with the ES accords, and with IRON agreeing by signing that document, but now I'm the one responsible? Give me a break. [/quote] Lets try this another way. See BAPS is willing to be released from the terms that ban them from attacking IRON. you on the other(who laughably also claims that they dont support Gremlins [i][b]in any way[/b][/i]) are the ones who is refusing to release them from said term. And I dont think anyone is saying you didnt do anything. Just that your current actions are still helping Gremlins something you are trying very hard to deny btw. [quote]I am not responsible for others making the choice to leave a war with a term that says they can't re-enter. Take a look in the mirror before putting the blame solely on me and my allies.[/quote] But you are responsible for not allowing them to be released from said term. Thats all I am saying. Now are you denying that or not? And if you are not then you need to realise that you are actually supporting Gremlins, whether that is your intention or not.

[quote name='Tromp' date='26 April 2010 - 12:02 AM' timestamp='1272236520' post='2274965'] Nah, the answer is right there, which you clearly knew for yourself. I don't see why we should release you from terms that you agreed to yourself just so you can redeploy on another front. [/quote] Beacuse , I dunno you just said that you dont support Gremlins in any way. But you are supporting them right now by not allowing alliances to deploy on them. Stick with one line, please. [quote]No crap Gremlins has a big top tier. You knew you'd be facing that when you entered the war. Now get IRON's top 5 nations out of peace mode and start nuking. Because as of yet all I've seen is a lot of pointing in awe at their nations and hiding under rocks, begging for us to give you some help. If you can't take their top tier on, then surrender. If you don't want to surrender, then fight. If you don't want to do either then just keep quiet, because we're tired of hearing about how they're so much stronger than you. No, we're not prepared to give you your allies to beat down on Gremlins. Either take them on with what you have or don't. Those are your two options at the moment. "Bring in allies and fite!" is not an option at the moment. I believe we've made that adequately clear. So stop asking. All you're going to do is piss people off more and they'll be less and less sympathetic to you.[/quote] So you are indirecly helping Gremlins. Admit it and we wont have to argue about anything. You cant claim not to be helping them and in the other sentence say that you are not going to let IRON's allies attack them. That is helping Gremlins believe it or not.

[quote name='Tromp' date='25 April 2010 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1272235847' post='2274946'] [/quote] I think you are misunderstanding what he is saying. As far as I can tell he is asking if there is any chance of BAPS getting released from the term that disallows them from paritcipating in IRON vs Gremlins war. Although arguably there are better places for asking that. [quote]Now, you need 10-1 odds to fight Gremlins, so you need everyone released from terms to attack Gremlins.[/quote] That would be correct if you were looking at the war in terms of nation numbers only. I suggest looking at Gremlins top tier. But its ok you are the last person I would expect to look at anything objectively. [quote]Now, you need 10-1 odds to fight Gremlins, so you need everyone released from terms to attack Gremlins.[/quote] And whats wrong with getting your allies to help you out? Especially if said allies want to help. Better than all these alliance who show faux outrage at Gremlin's actions and refuse to do anything about it. [quote]You aren't getting the luxury of beating Gremlins down in this one. That's too damn bad. Deal with it. [/quote] And you are getting called enablers(although from what I know no alliance has yet asked to be released from the term other than BAPS and even that is on the OWF). Deal with it

[quote name='Tromp' date='25 April 2010 - 11:15 PM' timestamp='1272233704' post='2274896'] FOK in no way supports Gremlins in their current war against IRON/DAWN. I think I've already been very receptive to your complaints by giving white peace to my opponents on that front, as other alliances have done too. [/quote] What exactly is stopping you from releasing BAPS from their terms again? Edit: That is if you are indeed refusing to release them from the terms.

[quote name='We Are Not Alone' date='25 April 2010 - 10:26 PM' timestamp='1272230767' post='2274817'] Lol if it made one person laugh it was a success. Anywho it was the highlight of my day and made me laugh. [/quote] You'll be better off leaving this to RV.

Meh recruiting from an AA is not very classy, no matter who does it or to who.

[quote name='Owned-You' date='25 April 2010 - 06:08 AM' timestamp='1272172063' post='2273936'] Although Athens technically didn't do anything wrong as it was cleared by Gandroff, I don't think it's wise to even bother raiding the misspelled applicant AA, unless asked by Pacifica. If not, it's only inviting these types of topics which do bring bad PR and just plain sloppy politics. Plus, I think tech-raiding is a terrible practice these days. But to each his own I suppose. [/quote] While I do hate Athens( ). They did ask NPO about the nation in question. Credit given where credit is due.

*Open mouth insert foot* I would like to apologise to Londo and Athens for making assumprions about their actions, and accusing them of something without doing the proper asking around. ./continue thread. Edit: and thanks to Rushsykes for the towel and soap.

[quote name='Moridin' date='25 April 2010 - 04:53 AM' timestamp='1272167591' post='2273807'] Strictly speaking, I think they're only obligated to protect "New Pacific Order Applicant", not "New Pacific Order Aplicant". Someone with the Instrument of Surrender handy can feel free to correct me. Still, poor showing by Athens. [/quote] I think you will agree that an attack on applicant AA is considered an attack on the main AA.

[quote name='Vilien' date='25 April 2010 - 04:54 AM' timestamp='1272167642' post='2273808'] The proper response to any minor diplomatic issue. [/quote] But the more amusing/intersting one, I am sure you'll agree, what makes it better is their leader doing it. So it cant be disregarded as a normal member being oblivious to whats happening in Bob [quote name='Sal Paradise' date='25 April 2010 - 04:55 AM' timestamp='1272167715' post='2273810'] What are you congratulating them for? [/quote] Why, on how well the protect us ofcourse.

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=New Pacific Order&anyallexact=exact [img]http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5270/abcbeh.png[/img] You are like a gift that keeps on giving. Please continue doing so.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='25 April 2010 - 03:51 AM' timestamp='1272163900' post='2273748'] @silentkiller- honestly, at that point i would not have trusted ya'll much either if i was FAN. [/quote] Trust me, I would'nt have as well. I am just trying to say that the same is true for Gremlins.

[quote name='Denial' date='25 April 2010 - 03:46 AM' timestamp='1272163550' post='2273742'] What was that line you used just before? Oh, right... Good to see you're holding yourself to your own apparent standards [/quote] Because my or my comrades sig is the topic of discussion. Oh wait... You are welcome to make a topic about it if you feel so strongly about it though

[quote name='Denial' date='25 April 2010 - 03:36 AM' timestamp='1272162964' post='2273722'] Also, while I'm here, I'd just like to comment on the latest line of Pacifican signatures. It pleases me to no end to see you all continue to dance to our tune. All it took for you to switch from years of "Mushroom Kingdom is LUE!" was one April Fool's joke and a pip where we've embraced that ridiculous concept as a joke. In turn, you fall over yourselves to immediately and very publicly admit that LUE disbanded, and hence MK cannot be LUE, and in one deft swipe prove beyond a doubt that you have all been talking out of your collective $@! for the past 3 years. [/quote] Cool story bro. [quote]i could have sworn that NPO did the same for FAN but were ridiculed and despised for it later on. just because there is an "out" does not mean it is acceptable or reasonable. thus, by that nature, the "out" in essence does not really exist at all. glad to see that you have no issue whatsoever with vietFAN since NPO did provide an "out" for FAN.[/quote] But NPO can't be trusted, comeon now doch, you should know these things by now....

[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='25 April 2010 - 03:29 AM' timestamp='1272162555' post='2273715'] Dude, I really hope you warmed up before stretching that far. Id hate to see you get a muscle cramp or pull. [/quote] Thank you for confronting the argument I presented. I have come to expect such high quality posts from Athens.

[quote name='goldielax25' date='25 April 2010 - 02:42 AM' timestamp='1272159715' post='2273623'] Bigwoody's 3rd line is basically the situation. If you signed with a no re-entry clause, it binds until the conflict is over or if the alliances you surrendered to agree to end the terms. And please, let's not get into a big e-lawyer thing about 'when the conflict is over'. IRON and Gre is still part of the ongoing war and will be interpreted as such. [/quote] Seeing as Gremlins are unlikely to offer peace any time soon, and IRON are unlikely to accept unconditional terms... Thank you VE for restoring my faith that there are indeed alliances in Bob that will implement "terms of the hegemeony". For a minute I was getting worried that we will all be hugging each other. Oh eternal terms, how I missed thee.

Cortath what have you done? Brennan

[quote name='flak attack' date='22 April 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1271966496' post='2270993'] I left GPA for MK a few days before the war started. I had been getting bored with the game and saw something happening that I wanted to be a part of. I only got to fight one or two wars with TPF before they were all out of range, so most of my time after that was spent watching and waiting for one of them to either leave peace mode. Oh man MK was pissed about that. [/quote] Karma war's biggest punishment for NPO? Reps? 3 months of war? No. Its Weirdgus getting active in the game

Kicked some $@!, Got $@! kicked by some. All in all 43 wars worth of awesome fun Oh yeah not to mention surrendering 13k casuaties before reaching 3 mil sucked

[quote]Err..what? That's not a meaningless semantic argument. Prevention implies they cannot attack. Deterrence means there are consequences if they do. Deterrents are designed to prevent things from happening, I agree, but there is still the ability for them to attack if they wish. As stated before, I don't wish to see that. [/quote] So you are enabling Gremlins by keeping anyone who is not under Surrender terms from attacking Gre. But hey you are not a government member so it doesnt mean anything right? Can you also direct me to MK's announcement where they decided to take the paperless route? Thanks.