NEWBert

When FIRE was first declared an alliance, I thought they had potential to be a stable red team alliance. I guess we wait .

Not that it's absolutely terrible, but that flag texture is absolutely terrible. Best of luck in your alliance's growth and future prosperity.

o/ ARES I love you guys.

I was a big fan of BLEU as far as trade circles etc., it was run very well and the circles operated smoothly with finding replacements for lost partners (the sheer size of blue helps as it is, the bloc should have no issues). I hope a few of the Polars that spearheaded some of the stuff in the past are still around and willing to do so again. Congrats on your reaffirmation guys and best of luck.

Magnum "in charge" of an alliance scares me. The entire gov't scares me tbh

Congrats Athens

(no I haven't read all 14 pages before this) Pacifica is quite content at the moment. You won't be seeing a coup d'état over the NPO gov't anytime soon.

Not trying to repair the bond between Pacifica/Polaris would put the respective body republics at just as much fault, imo. I know tension rubs off on both sides, but don't underestimate the camaraderie that still exists, no matter how little or big it may be.

Your forums and male genitalia have always been a hang up to even visit, let alone join

While I won't exactly log dump I'll post a few recent quotes. The connection is still there despite the friction and of course the obvious want for one side to help the other. Honestly the wars actions are somewhat irrelevant towards some long standing friendships. <Loucifer> Polars are in a hard spot, with treaties to both sides of this war. They are doing the honorable thing and not engaging offensively * Litha licks Polaris <Litha[NPO]> Polaris is our brother <Kean[NPO]> o/ polaris <GoldenAura> Yea i hope we can work stuff out with polar too

shush there's always been a lot of Polar lovers, even in present day. Is there tension? Yes of course, but the love still exists. Don't make me log dump on my own alliance

And this is why there are still a lot of Pacifican/Polar mancrushes. You cannot ignore history and community

fixed

I don't have the time to sit and quote/reply to each above poster (sorry, I'm at work) but to respond in bulk, the NPO has been at the center due to our size and voice. I'll repeat though, a desire for retribution and negative past actions do not justify breaking one's basic ethical standards in present time. Ethical standards are quite simply what one differentiates as right and wrong. Addressing SirDog, there's no formula. Everyone will view each situation differently. All I'm saying is that the terms handed to the NPO should be of that in which all of Karma are content with. For the bigger players in Karma, down the road you'll essentially be labeled on handing out these terms, even if you've played a back seat role. You're still a representative. Personally I don't find enslaving an alliance post-war to be ethical. As I stated in an earlier post, I don't care about my alliance's past actions. Perhaps they weren't appropriate, but that shouldn't be reason to go against your morals. To add to the poor analogies and comparisons in this thread, think of it like this. If I've spent my life as a drug addict and I get caught robbing a bank, is that reason for the death penalty? Do my past actions give my present one a reason for an unethical punishment?

I still fail to see how in all these past coalitions and allied groups, the NPO becomes the only one involved. I'm not saying we're innocent here, but it's wrong to ignore others if you are going to persecute for past actions. I think it's right on par with punishing NSO for NPO 'mistakes' while Ivan was emperor. It just doesn't make sense.

I rather become the next FAN than be enslaved to Karma. It's one thing to pay reparations, it's another to take reps to a higher level in which it's borderline unethical. We all play a game here and I'm probably not the only one who feels that destroying the game for others is wrong. I don't care about past actions or how things have played out involving my alliance, because quite frankly that shouldn't be a reason to break basic ethical code. Why make the same mistake as thy enemy? Am I asking for sympathy? Damn right I am, but I'm in no way asking for white peace or lenient terms. What I'm asking for are reasonable, ethical terms. I personally do not feel that Karma as a group can do that. It's all too apparent that there's a Karma vowing change and a Karma vowing retribution.

Your sarcasm is much superior to mine. I concede defeat.

Enslaving the NPO for the next year+ sounds healthy for CN. I'm sure these terms fit right along w/ what the good half of Karma (the let's change CN half, not the burn the NPO to the ground half) believes.

As it's been repeated, the only NPO nations in prolonged peace are the banks (and senators). Those entering peace are only there for 2 rounds tops, barring those that break orders. No one is just camping out in peace that isn't supposed to. Government, Milcom, general body republic, etc. have all fought honorably.

NPO followed (and still does I believe) what basically is MZI (Moo ZI). No one is PZI'd, the length in which they are 'punished' with war is determined by Moo. Sparta will learn soon enough that when people decide they want to quit CN (or are just bored w/ the game) they'll suicide themselves against the top alliance in the game. I was frequently nuked/involved in wars with nations that had just randomly decided to attack the NPO. These nations following their round of wars were punished accordingly.

Well with that I'm done arguing/reasoning with you. Making assumptions such as above clearly states your intentions to argue just for the sake of arguing.

You're forgetting about negotiating w/o the other party being present. You're forgetting about a representative having internet troubles and following his exit, the other party not asking for another rep. There were misunderstandings from both sides within those events.

We weren't "surrendering" (peace negotiating) because we thought we would lose a war.

I disagree, I think the war would of been much different (mainly those alliances with connections to both sides) if the NPO's allies had stood tall instead of riding the bandwagon. There were a lot of alliances that 'joined' the Karma side to be involved in the war on the winning side. In truth the war didn't really heat up until the "uncanceling" came around.

I just think it's silly to point it out, considering at the time everyone and their mother knew CN was on the brink of war. Most alliances had people in peace in preparation for such. It's not like the NPO decided to all of a sudden make the decision that CN was going to war. It was inevitable that CN was going to see a large war once things escalated and the old 'grudges' started to come out. You've got to give props to Vox as well for furthering some things.