Proko

Polaris is in the spirit

Someone grabbed VL earlier. Nice try*. *This post brought to you in costume from noWedge: the disrespect you need with the love you deserve.

There are so many people in this thread worthy of that title, yourself included.

This is a fabulous idea. I forgot about him.

Oddly, I thought you were in costume as Chris Kaos. Oops.

I confess that I'm surprised to find myself to be the first with this costume.

It really is. Congratulations IRON and TOP

Zhadum had less reason to lie in his logs as you do now. Obviously if you confess and say "I have known that Ursarkar has been leaking posts to Pacifica over the past four months" we're probably going to attack you. Forgive me if I don't view your words with suspicion. Oh wait. Wasn't your first response to this accusation that you had seen zero posts that Ursarkar leaked? If we find proof of another, doubtlessly your story will become "Oh, I forgot about that one. We scolded him then, too." No, Cortath. Zhadum gave that line unprompted and it rings honest. No one asked: Hey Zhadum, is Ursarkar leaking posts? He was explaining why the Pacifican government thinks that Polaris hates them. His first and immediate response was to cite multiple posts leaked by Ursarkar. That was why he believes Polaris dislikes Pacifica. Not because of public rhetoric, not because of conversations between Moo and Grub. No. Posts by Ursarkar that he is leaking and continued to leak until we shut down his forum account. Zhadum knew Ursarkar was leaking posts. Multiple posts. And from that, he had formed an opinion about the New Polar Order, and the evidence he had seen was strong enough to cite Ursarkar as his best reason for believing what he believed. How is it that it escaped your notice?

No he wasn't. Ursarkar joined us some time after the Unjust War, if he had been in the alliance for two years he would only just now be celebrating that. One of our alliance's many problems with him is his claims of having earned more than he can prove. He flies our two-year ribbon with no proof that he ever served in the alliance that long, and somehow sports three Imperial Medals of Honor, which ties him for receiving the most ever. I have never seen any proof he has ever been awarded more than one. I understand that the truth in Z'ha'dum's logs can be questioned, but the Ursarkar comment stands out to me as being particularly truthful, because it was entirely unprompted. Zha mentioned him by name, and explicitly defined his actions. In that log, Zha, and by association the Pacifican government, came to the conclusion that the Polar government hates them based on posts that Ursarkar keeps leaking. It implies more than one, and it implies that it is actively going on. What can you say? Obviously, you'll continue to assert that you only saw one. As far as I'm concerned, one Pacifican's word is worth as little as another, and I'm entirely unconvinced that you only ever saw just one post.

We are not sentencing you to ZI.

You probably shouldn't have lied to us all those times when we asked if you were spying on us.

I'm just going to list a couple of great Polars that don't get much international attention GEWilliam (William Krieger on these boards) Not Sane Swiper Goalintos Moridin These guys are all spectacular at what they do.

7 points is a lot of ground to cover. Hopefully, the time you start dealing with our tier, Sparta and MHA will be the first concerned, instead of us.

I had never considered applying the Linnaeus classification system to our new allies. Or to our own Order

I don't have anything to declare besides my satisfaction with this treaty, and the relief my eyes feel finally gazing upon its completed version. Or, I guess you could say !@#$@#$ finally

Very nice. Congratulations

If it was proven that your government was spying on us, would you defend them? How would you justify it? Purely hypothetical.

Grub will deal with the situation himself. I'm retired leadership making an argument out of information everyone has, except that Ursarkar frequently knows the password to our private channel. I am making no claims about the actions of Polaris, the intent of Polaris, or even Grub's opinion on the issue. This is all me, not Polaris.

Ursarkar is quite talented with computers, and I am sure if he wanted access to our membership areas he could get them. It's not that I believe everything Z'ha'dum says. He lies about a lot of things in his logs. However, the comment about Ursarkar came unprovoked. No one said, "Hey Z'ha'dum, does Ursarkar spy on Polaris?" He is a former member, that under (OOC) a previous account was expelled from Polaris. He has motivation, and he always knows the password to our private channel. There are certainly lies among Z'ha'dum's logs. But we know Pacifica has spied on us in the past (Griswalds), and Zha admits they are continuing to "receive" information to this day, something your alliance has destroyed others for.

[19:10:59] <+Zhadum> Well, Grub hates the NPO according to the posts Ursarkar keeps leaking out of their forums, same with most of their leaders "Keeps leaking" implies that it is currently and actively going on. If he had leaked old material, then the verb "leaked" would have been more appropriate. It doesn't help that Ursarkar always has the password to our private channel, too.

Also I would observe, Branimir, that you did not respond to my allegation that Z'ha'dum's statement "NPO does not spy" is proven false by Griswalds. If NPO has spied on Polaris in the past, as with Griswalds, it is not illogical they would do so currently, as with Ursarkar.

[19:10:59] <+Zhadum> Well, Grub hates the NPO according to the posts Ursarkar keeps leaking out of their forums, same with most of their leaders This information is not readily available by our public boards. If it was, then the screen shots would not need to come from Ursarkar, or even anyone in Pacifica, for that matter. It implies that Ursarkar is getting information from more than simply the area of our forum that anyone can see. Otherwise, I challenge you to put together a case that Grub "hates" Pacifica based on information gathered from our public lobby. Actually, I would challenge you to do that anyway (I have always considered Grub to be one of the most pro-Pacifican members of our government)

You're right. He lies about many things in his logs and it's difficult to sort true from false. But why mention Ursarkar by name if there was no truth to it? It's worth more than blanket statements like "NPO doesn't spy" or "NPO doesn't know anything about the secret terms given to Polaris," two generalizations that are entirely false. If he said "We don't have spies on Polaris" unprovoked, maybe I would believe him. But without provocation, he mentioned that Ursarkar was leaking screen shots.

He was lying when he declared NPO does not actively spy. In fact, we know NPO has spied on us on the past. Remember Griswalds? We sure do.

He mentions him by name, Branimir.