Caliph

Participation = glorification. Performing the action yourself, or not speaking out against everyone performing that action, is the exact same as encouraging others to do that action. Since \m/ has been disbanded, and GOONS been destroyed, and the UJP defeated, the practice of tech raiding has only grown in acceptance. RAD making this announcement changes nothing in the social acceptance of tech raiding. Tech raiding has grown on its own, without RAD, with your \m/ boogeymen or the GUNES participating in it. It is socially acceptable under the hegemony of the Continuum and One Vision. Than I expect you to also speak out against the other alliances, in their own threads, about how bad they are because they tech raid. If you are ashamed of what you do, than why continue to do it? The reality is nobody who tech raids is ashamed of tech raiding. They are all just too afraid of getting labelled as the next \m/ for being pro tech raiding. There is no difference in RAD making this announcement, and of alliances like IRON, like Gramlins, like GOD, who continue to tech raid and allow tech raiding. All we are doing with this announcement is bringing the practice of tech raiding into the limelight, making it so you self righteous folks cannot hope to ignore it. I am puzzled as to why we, RAD, are on the receiving end of some of this hatred against tech raiding, simply because we perform less tech raids in a month than some of the sanctioned alliances do in 1 day, and somehow we're being labelled as scum because of tech raiding. \m/ had very strict guidelines on tech raiding. Were you there? I don't think you were. \m/ prohibited tech raiding of alliances, alliances being defined as more than 4 people. So if an AA was shared by 5 or more people, \m/ couldn't tech raid. Other alliances, actually most other alliances, has less strict definitions, allowing their nations to tech raid up to 15 or 20 people in an AA. Somehow with \m/'s more strict guidelines we still got demonified for tech raiding, when alliances at the time, like GGA, IRON, Gramlins, and others, allowed tech raiding but were all respected and treatied. Why? Because \m/'s downfall had nothing to do with tech raiding. If it did than why did over half the ~ alliances tech raid themselves? Tech raiding like \m/ did means having restrictions that enable plenty of people who do not want to join an alliance band together in groups of 5 or more and be free from tech raiding from us. Tech raiding like everyone else means that those groups have to be much larger. All \m/, and RAD here, did/is doing, is bringing the practice of tech raiding onto the forums, to let everyone know about tech raiding. Why RAD, and only RAD, is being criticized here is beyond me, as we simply do not participate in enough tech raids to make any significant difference in the number of tech raids that occur each and every day by other alliances, some of those alliances being sanctioned at this current point in time. Either you are against all tech raiding, or you are trying to blame RAD for something that is beyond our control. You might as well blame RAD for you having a bad hair day, or perhaps its RAD's fault that your tie doesn't match your suit? No, the truth is that the continual acceptance of tech raiding by most of the alliances on Planet Bob here encourages and perpetuates tech raiding. Than do so by speaking out against all the alliances that tech raid, and not just RAD, who participates in a very small amount of tech raids, much smaller than other alliances who do it.

1) We knew this was going to get attention. 2) We do want attention. 3) We did get attention. 16 pages of attention. 4) Attention = attention. 5) This is where you fail. I'm responding to the people who speak out against RAD for tech raiding, but who remain completely silent when their allies tech raid, and when other, non allied alliances, tech raid. I am tired of people speaking as if RAD is all that is wrong with tech raiding today, as if somehow this announcement changes anything about tech raiding. So you like to criticize RAD for tech raiding. But have you considered that there are many other alliances who tech raid out there? Out of most of the alliances who tech raid, any 1 of them does more tech raids in a day than RAD does in a month. Perhaps you, and most of the rest of the people here who are criticizing us for tech raiding, could take up your issues with those who perform the most amount of tech raids in a month, a week, or a day. Take your issues up with those who have the most impact on tech raids, who perform the most raids, and not on us, who perform very little raids. Ragging on us because we tech raid is fine if you also lament the same amount of attention on the other alliances who tech raid. You don't seem to be giving IRON and others the same amount of attention for tech raiding as you are giving RAD. Until you do so, I will point out that double standards are not welcome. Also, you seem pretty intent on conspiracy theories. I am gov in RAD and I had no idea who IrishEyes was really a reroll of. He said he was ex GATO who left CN after the UJW. Now that could be a huge number of people, as tons of people left after the UJW when \m/ disbanded. So all we really knew was he was a reroll of a former \m/ember. I don't know what your standards are but we don't bar people from membership just because they are a reroll, or because they were in \m/. I had no idea who IrishEyes was before he got banned. I will be looking forward to it. Just so I'm clear, I am not referring to Gramlins when I'm talking of alliances who are hypocrits. So you don't care if people get tech raided, its when people make threads about it that you see as wrong? Would your opinion change of other tech raiding alliances if someone made threads detailing their tech raids? Why or why not?

Texas Hold'em, my place Sunday's at 8.

OOC: My apologies for the back to back posts, the forum simply would not let me put my entire reply in one post. IC: How does talking about tech raiding change the reality that nations are being tech raided by RAD members and people who aren't in RAD, people in sanctioned alliances even? How does talking about tech raiding change the reality that people are getting tech raided? The belief in our nations sovereignty, a concept that your alliances shares. I know not everyone shares the same views. Some like it, some don't care, others are against it. What I don't like is people who claim they don't like it, try posturing in threads like this, while their alliance has, in the past, and is currently, allied with alliances that tech raid. In threads such a dislike of tech raiding is rarely conveyed between those allies, so how is it not a hypicritical action to condemn RAD for things their own allies, and a large portion of alliances in existence today, perform this same action? I agree, I will be more civil in the future, I blame the numerous white russians I had while Caliphate was enjoying our Valentines Day celebration. It is a national holiday here. That is the viewpoint I respect. However not everyone in this thread, and in general, follows that line. Let me give you an example. Ben arrives at a party. He personally doesn't do drugs, but many of his friends do, and so do many of the people at the party. Ben walks around, having a good time, ignoring the drug use around him to the extent he doesn't even comment on it. Suddenly a girl stands up, and shouts in a loud voice "I'm going to do drugs over here". Ben doesn't know her, so he launches into a tirade about how drug use is wrong and if it were up to him all drugs everywhere would be stamped out. His friends, smoking joints, watch from the shadows. He doesn't mention his friends, or anyone else doing drugs, in his tirade, and focuses solely on the girl who said she was going to do drugs. Your viewpoint, as in your example, is an honorable one, however the viewpoint I tried to show in my example is the viewpoint that most of the people against tech raiding in this thread have shown. I am against hypocricy, however you have not shown any. There are those here who have, though, and I'm trying to show how their viewpoint is flawed. And I can agree with his viewpoint. My apologies if I came off as harsh or overly critical of him personally, I was more venting my frustration at the hypocricy shown by several people in this thread. To clarify, he has not shown hypocricy, he was, as you said, merely stating his opinion. His opinion I can respect, as it is not based in hypocricy. Just as I am for the individual rights of our nations. I am against people criticizing us for doing actions they either do, or that their friends do but they don't criticize their friends over it, only us. The fact of the matter is that tech raiding won't go away. RAD, or \m/, announcing a tech raid will not, in any shape, way, or form, change the reality that tech raids will continue to occur. Painting us as the "poster boy" for tech raiding is simply false, as there are many more alliances, with more members, more NS, more nukes, and a sanctioned status, who tech raid. Warring us, or building a coalition against us for tech raiding would be extremely hypocritical. Note:this last paragraph is not so much stated at Ejay, but to people against tech raiding. And lastly, thank you for the kind words, Ejay, I wish you well with your own alliance as well.

I don't understand how we can be labelled as the "poster boy" for tech raiding, when tech raiding has existed for longer than RAD has, and will continue to last when, Admin forbid, RAD is gone. Being vocal about raiding is not changing the core of the matter, and that is that tech raids happen. Good to know you stand by your convictions. I remember that of you, and good to know you at least are not being hypicritical about this. I'm not entirely sure, but policies like NPO's Moldavi Doctrine and the Citadels "Citadel Trading Company" help by giving None's protection in return for services renderred (providing trades, tech deals, etc). We are not \m/. However you are correct in that we duplicated one of the most hated actions that \m/ did. I for one am tired of people criticizing \m/, and criticizing RAD, for that simply because tech raiding will continue to go on whether we talk about it or not. We aren't the first to tech raid, we aren't the last, and we don't even make up a large number of tech raiders. If you really want to change tech raiding, get IRON on bored. Get Continuum alliances and One Vision alliances to help you.

I'm with Chairman Hal on this one. I see abolutely no difference between RAD announcing, publicy, a policy of tech raiding, and the numerous other alliances tech raiding but not mentioning it publicly. Our intent was to merely announce one tech raid. One of the many that go on every single day. I understand why people would be against tech raiding. I personally haven't tech raided since \m/ was killed off in the public backlash known as the Unjust War, but I, like Ejay and the Gramlins, respect my own alliance mates sovereignty over their own nations enough to know that it is ultimately their choice to tech raid or not. Now, if you are against tech raiding, thats fine, but I would appreciate you not being hypicritical about it. For example, condemning RAD because we tech raid is your right, but when you blatantly ally yourselves with multiple alliances, most of whom have fought in wars on your side and have helped you out tremendously, such as GOONS had done, such as IRON is doing, such as GGA has done/is doing, like most the alliances in the Continuum are doing. If you are against tech raiding, than logically you must be against everyone tech raiding, and not simply the people who tech raid but talk about it.

Question regarding the bolded part. How exactly is tech raiding different than tech raiding them and telling the CN community that you tech raided them? Everyone can go to the war decleration screen and view the war. The nation getting raided will lose the same amount of tech, same amount of infra, same amount of cash, same amount of land. The "none" nation will be losing the exact same quantity of things, regardless whether their raider announces it or not. How exactly is not mentioning it helping the situation out at all? If anything, if you are against tech raiding, I would imagine that speaking out and talking about tech raiding would be something you would do in order to get the focus on it. Instead, what happens? The alliance who announces it, such as \m/, and such as RAD here, gets demonified as if all tech raiding is their fault. What is truly happening is that tech raids happen all the time. Sanctioned alliances tech raid. Over half the alliances on the ~ side in the Unjust War tech raided. Alliances in One Vision tech raid. Alliances in the Continuum tech raid. And, for that matter, the Gramlins themselves allow tech raiding, exactly like \m/ did. At least for a time, I admit I have not followed any changes you made to your charter since I was a member. But I do know Gramlins allowed tech raiding, I know because I was the 1 in a million case where I was tech raided by a Gramlin seconds after I was authorized to fly the Gramlin Applicant AA. So how does allowing your members to tech raid but not mentioning it as an alliance change the reality of tech raiding? How does allying yourself with alliances change the reality of tech raiding? How does having one alliance who tells the world when they tech raid change any reality about tech raiding? The truth is it doesn't change anything. What is happening here is all of you anti tech raiding folks are just looking for someone to vent your anger, or displeasure, at tech raiding to. You truly don't care about the "nones". You truly don't care about tech raiding, otherwise you would constantly be trying to get tech raiding to stop. So all of you who have condemned RAD in this cherade truly must take a look at yourselves and if you truly are against tech raiding, take it up with those who can stop it, the Continuum and One Vision. Good luck though, because there are quite a few alliances here who either believe in tech raiding, or believe in having the freedom of their members to allow them to tech raid. Also, if any of you actually think this thread was about tech raiding, then follow me into this other meeting hall, I have some time shares I want to sell you.

We are not the only alliance to tech raid "active" nations. Gramlins does it, IRON does it ...where is the outcry against them for doing it? Oh wait ...its kind of like the elephant in the room then? Where we all know about it, but don't talk about it until someone brings it up, and then blame it on the person bringing it up then? Come off it, we're RAD, we're here to stay. We tech raid, but we don't force our members to tech raid. Take me for example. I have not tech raided at all since I joined RAD. Not all RAD tech raids, then we do allow for it in our charter, along with several alliances, some even sanctioned currently. Take your moral crusade to them before taking it to us.

What I find funny is tiny alliances have been declared on for less than this, and nothing will happen to MHA because of this.

I like this

1 person? Ninja R. 2 people? Liberal_Extinction. 3 people? Mpol

I didn't have a warchest going into the UJW and did just fine. What I mean by "fine" was "dealing as much damage out to each of the 4 nations I was fighting as I was taking). Of course, the not having a warchest screwed me over when the nukes began to fly, and I almost got billlocked, but I pulled it off. I didn't even quit my first nation until around the Continuum was announced. I started about 2 months before GW3, so I'm a younging compared to some of you folks here. Got smacked down in Legion, but had some fun times in \m/ after the war. Stayed there until it disbanded in the UJW, then with nothing left to fight for I moved on. I must say the politics back then were much different than now. I mean there was actual conflict on the forums between different alliance leaders, some drama on the forum, and it wasn't a huge hail fest that it is now. The forums were much more interesting then.

How do you determine who the guests on your show are?

Up in here, up in here. Join RAD today

I'm in ur head, stealing ur sekrits Ruining ur game

Right. When we're not pleasing you, we're ruining your game :jihad:

OOC alliances? How is stating an intention to create an alliance in the Tournament Edition of Cybernations an OOC move? And how would such an alliance, once created, be OOC?

I lolled. Seems like someones already having their game ruined, and we haven't even got nations in TE yet Dizzam, we just ruined ur game :jihad:

That, or it got taken out when they disbanded a few weeks ago.

3 million is the limit on foreign aid transactions. So a common way of paying someone 12 million for a donation is to simply pay 3 mill every 10 days. Another way of doing it is to use other nations who might owe you money. So you could have one nation who owes you 3 mill, you could have that nation send the donation seller 3 mill for you.

5 factories should be next. Those will help you buy even more infrastructure (making it cheaper so you can get more with your money). Keep the harbor, but I would ditch the bank and go for 5 factories.

Right. Tensions had been rising for a while (a month maybe) and the war officially started when Genmay declared war on BAPS (an NpO protectorate). NpO declared war on Genmay, GGA declared war on GOONS (who had yet to become involved in the conflict yet) and many more declarations of war followed, some joining with NpO and GGA's coalition (named ~) and others joined the Unjust Path (a bloc)'s coalition named the Unjust Highway. War was immenant, and the Genmay DOW was the spark that started it. Genmay and \m/ disbanded during the war, GOONS has yet to disband and the war against them is still ongoing. This war lasted about a week for most involved parties. GOONS is still fighting, but all other theatres of the this war have been closed. Try looking this is up on the CN wiki, it gives a fairly accurate description of what happened, including links to the DOW's and surrenders and disbandments as a result. This war is also called "The Unjust War". Also could be called the "WUT civil war", because in this war the WUT split into 3 different camps. 2 camps (~ and the Unjust Highway) fought each other, while the 3rd declared neutrality. In effect, the WUT was destroyed.