Sileath Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 "There are no atheists in foxholes and there are no libertarians in financial crises." Sileathonomics is a merger of two economics theories - capitalism and the gift economy. If you want to know more about these theories, read The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith and the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson. In other societies, nations are generally divided into three basic socioeconomic classes. Serfs - these nations cannot afford to sled, and are encouraged to serve as tech farms for long periods of time. Upper Class - these nations purchase technology, and usually serve as Bankers when not sledding. Super Rich - these nations only purchase technology, and have the benefit of Peace Mode during war so their Serfs can fight for them. Under Sileathonomics, nations are generally divided into four basic socioeconomic classes. Paupers - these nations are too poor to afford basic necessities, such as Factories, a Harbor, or a Foreign Ministry. Sledding is not profitable. Merchant middle class - these nations are at the point where they can reliably afford to sell technology, and utilize the proceeds to sled and advance their level of infrastructure. Bourgeoisie - these nations do not make significant profit from technology dealing, do not yet have the prerequisite wonders to need WRC-qualifying technology, and yet cannot serve as full bankers without hindering their national growth. Upper Class - these nations need technology, and can afford to perform as full bankers. Under laissez-faire capitalism, all nations would naturally gravitate to short-term rational self-interest, and only engage in profitable transactions - chiefly technology dealing. This serves the large nations to a degree, but stunts growth among society as a whole. The paupers would have to utilize an enormous percentage of their first technology deal to even be able to afford a Foreign Ministry, the procurement of which enables them to engage in 25% more aid transactions per cycle. This stunts their economic development. For them to be able to focus on purchasing the necessary national improvements for basic growth, they need a more pure form of aid. The merchant middle class are the best candidates for technology dealing, as they already have a Harbor and Foreign Ministry, and are the socioeconomic class most able to turn their market profits into meaningful national growth. This group are the ones who are constantly engaged in technology transactions, and when they have shown their appreciation of the importance of the market and knowledge of basic economic principles, they may be ready to ascend the ladder of social mobility. The bourgeoisie is the socioeconomic class which is the veritable centerpiece of Sileathonomics. This class does not profit greatly from technology deals, and yet cannot reasonably afford to provide monetary assistance to smaller nations without stunting national growth. To offset the economic loss suffered by the upper class, this group provides free technology to large nations. This aid is both situational - for nations near the requirements for the Weapons Research Complex - and merit-based, for upper class nations publicly seen aiding paupers and merchant middle class nations. The financial loss associated with giving away free technology is offset by the premise that these nations will be aided themselves to become full bankers, and will be on the receiving end of the same free technology when their economic situation warrants the investment. The upper class includes all nations which directly profit from technology purchase, and can provide financial aid to poorer nations with reckless abandon. Due to the gift economy elements in Sileathonomics, the upper class can aid lower socioeconomic classes more freely, as they are investing in future technology merchants and some of the technology they could have acquired in a private deal is offset by the contributions of the bourgeoisie. This economic system only works when all socioeconomic classes participate. If any one class fails to uphold their responsibilities, the entire system implodes, and hyperinflation will take hold. This economic system has several checks and balances. Alliance economic regulators hold the keys to social mobility. To qualify for an aid program, it must have been demonstrated that the applicant understands the economic principles behind efficient nation growth and has shown enthusiasm for the technology market. The upper class is motivated to provide aid to lower classes as this ingratiates the new merchants/bourgeoisie to them, and through the wonder of human psychology they are more apt to technology trade/bank for the upper class nation. The bourgeoisie is motivated to aid the upper class as this makes this socioeconomic class the most powerful among the four, and due to their discretion in who they aid, can procure political favors for their technology. This discretion can be used for good - by aiding nations who are providing assistance to the lower classes and nations near the requirements for the Weapons Research Complex - or for evil, to use any means necessary to procure power. Since all aid should be publicly posted in aid threads, a reputation is formed of these nations, so when they reach upper class themselves, the future bourgeoisie nations will be aware of how their socioeconomic class is expected to act. The merchant middle class is motivated to trade technology as this provides significant profit, and is one of the required means to qualify for social advancement aid programs. The paupers are motivated to procure a Harbor, Foreign Ministry, and 5 Factories as this is the most sensible means for growth, and will allow them to be more active players in the societal economic scheme. I hope this has explained the theory behind Sileathonomics. I am on hand to answer any questions in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 All glory to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 3 million for 50 tech is, of course, the logical extension. That and having more NS makes you more qualified to set policy than the folks in their actual position. Really, sileath. Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortath Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 (edited) The theory is too egomaniacal to be correct. Edited May 28, 2009 by Cortath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I do agree with your basic principals, and think this is a pretty cool piece, also, I actually read the whole thing before posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I do agree with your basic principals, and think this is a pretty cool piece, also, I actually read the whole thing before posting. Trust me, mogar. I read it too, and I wasnt exaggerating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Trust me, mogar.I read it too, and I wasnt exaggerating. It's cool that someone actually wrote it, and I typically only do 3/50 deals with IRAN members, since it helps their growth more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 It's cool that someone actually wrote it, and I typically only do 3/50 deals with IRAN members, since it helps their growth more. He wanted to force it on everyone. Based on the fact his NS was higher than the person actually in charge of those deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 He wanted to force it on everyone.Based on the fact his NS was higher than the person actually in charge of those deals. Actually, last I had heard NSO did 6/150 tech deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President Obama Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Actually, last I had heard NSO did 6/150 tech deals. Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehChron Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Actually, last I had heard NSO did 6/150 tech deals. Its actually decided on the formation of the ring, but you see my point, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 (edited) To offset the economic loss suffered by the upper class, this group provides free technology to large nations. This aid is both situational - for nations near the requirements for the Weapons Research Complex - and merit-based, for upper class nations publicly seen aiding paupers and merchant middle class nations. The financial loss associated with giving away free technology is offset by the premise that these nations will be aided themselves to become full bankers, and will be on the receiving end of the same free technology when their economic situation warrants the investment. To be honest, I never really understood this. It isn't really free tech. To be eligible, you have to pay up. A lot. Calling it free and giving it out in the way you intended it just seems like a way to obfuscate the real transactions and screw with my accounting. Almost like it were based off of a money laundering scheme or something. Edited May 28, 2009 by heggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Seriously? that was just the last time I heard, it looks relatively complex to set up compared to long term deals, but would give the best return to the tech seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Actually, last I had heard NSO did 6/150 tech deals. We don't have a standardized process for tech-dealing at the present time. We allow member's to freelance for deals within the alliance. However, we are working on various concepts and methods for a standardized process. Sileath posted this one for that purpose, it was not well received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 This is pretty dumb. You want the bourgeoisie buying tech, 'cause eventually they're going to get up near the WRC level and when they do you want them to have as much tech as possible. Also having them buying tech is cheaper for them than sending freebie aid, which is what a nation like mine has most of its slots filled with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sileath Posted May 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 To be honest, I never really understood this. It isn't really free tech. To be eligible, you have to pay up. A lot. Calling it free and giving it out in the way you intended it just seems like a way to obfuscate the real transactions and screw with my accounting. Almost like it were based off of a money laundering scheme or something. Upper class -money-> Paupers ---> Paupers become Merchant middle class Upper class <-tech--money-> Merchant middle class ---> Merchant middle class qualifies for higher aid program Upper class -money-> Merchant middle class ---> Merchant middle class become Bourgeoisie Bourgeoisie -tech-> Upper Class Economic regulators can control the quantity of people in each class (and manipulate technology prices) through requiring more/less tech dealing by the merchant middle class until they can qualify for the aid program to elevate them to Bourgeoisie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortath Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 (edited) Upper class -money-> Paupers ---> Paupers become Merchant middle classUpper class <-tech--money-> Merchant middle class ---> Merchant middle class qualifies for higher aid program Upper class -money-> Merchant middle class ---> Merchant middle class become Bourgeoisie Bourgeoisie -tech-> Upper Class Economic regulators can control the quantity of people in each class (and manipulate technology prices) through requiring more/less tech dealing by the merchant middle class until they can qualify for the aid program to elevate them to Bourgeoisie. This posts lacks the egomaniacal charm that made the OP so delightful to read. I'd note that "economic regulators can control" doesn't particularly smack of the "free market" mentioned in the OP. My original commentary on the theory stands. Edited May 28, 2009 by Cortath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Upper class -money-> Paupers ---> Paupers become Merchant middle classUpper class <-tech--money-> Merchant middle class ---> Merchant middle class qualifies for higher aid program Upper class -money-> Merchant middle class ---> Merchant middle class become Bourgeoisie Bourgeoisie -tech-> Upper Class Economic regulators can control the quantity of people in each class (and manipulate technology prices) through requiring more/less tech dealing by the merchant middle class until they can qualify for the aid program to elevate them to Bourgeoisie. On a monthly basis, how much tech would a member of the Bourgeoisie receive, and how much money would they send to the Pauper & Merchant Class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sileath Posted May 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 This is pretty dumb. You want the bourgeoisie buying tech, 'cause eventually they're going to get up near the WRC level and when they do you want them to have as much tech as possible. Also having them buying tech is cheaper for them than sending freebie aid, which is what a nation like mine has most of its slots filled with. Here's what you're looking at for a WRC: Stock Market -> SSS -> NRL -> MP -> GT -> P -> WRC That assumes you don't want IS That's 7 wonders, so 6 months from the time of the first purchase. 2000 tech/24 cycles = 83 tech per cycle. That's easy to make up. By the time the nation reaches upper class (3 economic wonders) they will be eligible for tech aiding. Assume that's after SM/SSS/NRL -> you then have 4 months and 16 cycles before WRC is even possible to purchase. 2000 tech/16 cycles = 125 tech per cycle. A upper class nation can easily make 150 tech per cycle, assuming they are doing one 3/50 tech deal (one slot) are aiding two smaller nations, and are receiving two packages from tech bankers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sileath Posted May 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 This posts lacks the egomaniacal charm that made the OP so delightful to read.I'd note that "economic regulators can control" doesn't particularly smack of the "free market" mentioned in the OP. My original commentary on the theory stands. Sileathonomics has free market elements, but relies on regulators to ensure that social mobility is only available for those who have been reliable merchants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortath Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Sileathonomics has free market elements, but relies on regulators to ensure that social mobility is only available for those who have been reliable merchants. I knew your posts were missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sileath Posted May 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 On a monthly basis, how much tech would a member of the Bourgeoisie receive, and how much money would they send to the Pauper & Merchant Class? Bourgeoisie would expect to receive 3 million per 200 technology. They would not send money to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Bourgeoisie would expect to receive 3 million per 200 technology. They would not send money to anyone. Ah, I was under the presumption they did limited aiding. In light of that, applying my original question to the Upper Class. What would those results be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 (edited) I still think it's some sort of sophisticated money laundering scheme. Edited May 28, 2009 by heggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sileath Posted May 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Ah, I was under the presumption they did limited aiding. In light of that, applying my original question to the Upper Class. What would those results be? Upper class (situational based - needs WRC) with a DRA would do two 3/50s (four slots) aid one nation and receive 50 tech from a tech banker Upper class (situation based - needs WRC) without a DRA would do one 3/50 (one slot), aid two nations and receive 100 tech from tech bankers Upper class (merit based - already has WRC) with a DRA would do one 3/50 (two slots) aid two nations and receive 100 tech from tech bankers Upper class (merit based - already has WRC) without a DRA would do one 3/50 (two slots) aid two nations and receive 50 tech from a tech banker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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