CNRP OOC Thread

[Otto Verteidiger]

Oh my... Good times, good times. So basically from what I'm reading... You got these choices... Pick one:

1) Play by the maximum IG levels you have reached and are recorded (play from your prime). --- You get to 10K infra and 2K tech but get ZI'd? You still get to play 10K infra and 2K tech if it was recorded before you got stomped. Downside is you cannot advance further until you go over your old stats.

2) Play by your IG stats. --- Stuff happens, deal with it (God I remember that lined used at me! How stupid, oh well!). If you were a 10K, 2K tech nation and you got ZI'd. RP from the very beginning.... Uhh, diplomacy helps to get protected I guess?

3) Good RP is how you get ahead, along with time and experience here. Stats matter not.

All of these come with a limited but lifetime offer, "NO EXCEPTIONS" Yesh!

Basically, I favor 3 because it just doesn't favor numbers. It requires good RPers and RPs, not "LULZ HIGHER TECH, BETTER TANKS, I WONNORRZ YUMMY". Basically 1 and 2 favor just big IG nations and diminishes the importance of actually RPing.... So we're basically send the message to RPers here "Hey, RP skill don't matter, just how big your tech penis is!"

I can't think of any other alternatives you could have to set a standard rule to. Run a poll or something.

[LeVentNoir]

<snip>

Unfortunately, I have seen what no IG stats does, and since bad RPers are a dime a dozen, they tend to mess things up, so I would say #3 is a very dangerous path. I would #1, but with a bit of change. If you get stomped in RP after you get stomped in IG, you get to play with your new, lower IG stats.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

I favor strictly in game stats with tech sharing permitted and a responsibility to roleplay the cause and effect of the rise and fall of your nation and its diplomatic status. This means.. if I lost my tech treaty with Triyun. I would have to RP all my nice tech gadgets from our shared technology treaty.. breaking down. Or if Triyun lost all his in game tech.. I'd have to compensate to whatever my tech level fell to. I think this is only fair. Unless Martens has a tech sharing treaty with someone to prop his tech up he should be forced to have his nation slide over a period of say.. 2 weeks to a month.. to his current in game tech levels.

[LeVentNoir]

I favor strictly in game stats with tech sharing permitted and a responsibility to roleplay the cause and effect of the rise and fall of your nation and its diplomatic status. This means.. if I lost my tech treaty with Triyun. I would have to RP all my nice tech gadgets from our shared technology treaty.. breaking down. Or if Triyun lost all his in game tech.. I'd have to compensate to whatever my tech level fell to. I think this is only fair. Unless Martens has a tech sharing treaty with someone to prop his tech up he should be forced to have his nation slide over a period of say.. 2 weeks to a month.. to his current in game tech levels.

Sounds perfectly reasonable. The slide would no be that much, as merged nations (such as KM) get the bonus of using the highest partners tech (Which i actually think should be the average) but still a slide down to 2400 or so is in order.

[Triyun]

Oh my... Good times, good times. So basically from what I'm reading... You got these choices... Pick one:

1) Play by the maximum IG levels you have reached and are recorded (play from your prime). --- You get to 10K infra and 2K tech but get ZI'd? You still get to play 10K infra and 2K tech if it was recorded before you got stomped. Downside is you cannot advance further until you go over your old stats.

2) Play by your IG stats. --- Stuff happens, deal with it (God I remember that lined used at me! How stupid, oh well!). If you were a 10K, 2K tech nation and you got ZI'd. RP from the very beginning.... Uhh, diplomacy helps to get protected I guess?

3) Good RP is how you get ahead, along with time and experience here. Stats matter not.

All of these come with a limited but lifetime offer, "NO EXCEPTIONS" Yesh!

Basically, I favor 3 because it just doesn't favor numbers. It requires good RPers and RPs, not "LULZ HIGHER TECH, BETTER TANKS, I WONNORRZ YUMMY". Basically 1 and 2 favor just big IG nations and diminishes the importance of actually RPing.... So we're basically send the message to RPers here "Hey, RP skill don't matter, just how big your tech penis is!"

I can't think of any other alternatives you could have to set a standard rule to. Run a poll or something.

As far as 3 goes, I feel that this should being Cybernations be some reflection of the Cybernations game itself.

[Rebel Virginia]

I favor a combination of two and three. Stats should be reflected in the RP, but if you use what you have well, and make a few smart purchases here and there, you can do some decent things. You don't need fancy spider mechs (which even if were possible to make, I doubt they'd stand up well against a few tanks. They couldn't possibly be that effective) to do things. Remember, just because something looks cool doesn't mean it'll work.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Sounds perfectly reasonable. The slide would no be that much, as merged nations (such as KM) get the bonus of using the highest partners tech (Which i actually think should be the average) but still a slide down to 2400 or so is in order.

If there is tech sharing occurring, there should also be an official treaty and a link to it provisioned in a fact-book about the nation as is in my signature. That way people know you are not "pulling it out your nose." so to speak. As it is, I would have no idea what's keeping Marten's tech up.

Edited December 27, 2008 by Maelstrom Vortex

[LeVentNoir]

I know, and merge nations should be averaged out.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

So my understanding his he and Brian Remier Merged.. if this is correct, then it should be an average of technology at best.. not an addition of technology as one country is under-funded on tech and the other at a surplus.

I calculate Marten's tech basedon IG stats should be at most 1750. This is better than tech sharing allows due to integration.

Fair rules:

Any independent nation should solely use their IG tech.

Sharing should be based on the tech sharing formula, that has a link to it in my signature; due to select technology sales.

Integrated nations/states should use the average of their in-game technologies.

[LeVentNoir]

So, a clear guide to your tech level. (well I propose it)

You have 5 positions you can be in.

1: You play by IG stats.

2: You play by IG stats, with a formal tech sharing agreement. (would be nice if you had a link handy)

3: You are a part of a Merged nation. Your tech is the average of the IG techs of the mergees.

4: You have had your data recorded on the database, but suffered a IG loss in stats. Your tech is equal to the last formally recorded stat you posted. In addition, you cannot be in a tech sharing agreement, although you can merge.

5: You have suffered both a IG and RP loss of tech. You play to your new, lower IG stats.

That should suit everyone.

Edited December 27, 2008 by LeVentNoir

[Otto Verteidiger]

Unfortunately, I have seen what no IG stats does, and since bad RPers are a dime a dozen, they tend to mess things up, so I would say #3 is a very dangerous path. I would #1, but with a bit of change. If you get stomped in RP after you get stomped in IG, you get to play with your new, lower IG stats.

Bad RPers are typically ignored. No one recognizes them and they then tend to either go away or act as if they're dealing damage to the people who are against them for a while (but... no one recognizes it). I don't think any bad RPer has made it too far in CNRP.

I guess it's a valid concern but the history of CNRP has proved bad RPers get filtered quickly.

Mael's proposal is okay, though. I just still like RP substances over stats.

As far as 3 goes, I feel that this should being Cybernations be some reflection of the Cybernations game itself.

Yes, but what does that have to do with basing any RPs on IG stats? Use the weapons the game provides, tanks, ships. Game doesn't have flying saucers? Can't RP it. Soldiers? Well game has it. What about space colonies? Game doesn't have it, can't RP it. The RP is still connected to the game, just not the stats.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

So, a clear guide to your tech level. (well I propose it)

You have 5 positions you can be in.

1: You play by IG stats.

2: You play by IG stats, with a formal tech sharing agreement. (would be nice if you had a link handy)

3: You are a part of a Merged nation. Your tech is the average of the IG techs of the mergees.

4: You have had your data recorded on the database, but suffered a IG loss in stats. Your tech is equal to the last formally recorded stat you posted. In addition, you cannot be in a tech sharing agreement, although you can merge.

5: You have suffered both a IG and RP loss of tech. You play to your IG stats.

That should suit everyone.

Actually, point 4 needs adjusted. When there is an IG loss in tech, players should rp the loss in tech over a period of time of 2 weeks to a month unless they can recover. Using the database as a protective shield to cover yourself from the same woes everyone else in the game goes through from time to time is getting old. Otherwise.. there's no reason I shouldn't shoot my tech to 9000 and then sell it off again and play at 9000 tech for the rest of eternity.

You see my point in why I feel this needs be done? Besides. That data base is shoddy.. and poorly maintained. I posted my stats like a month back and it still isn't in there.

Call it a plague, call it an insurrection, call it "brain drain" from economic conditions.. but find a reason for your tech falling and play it instead of trying to warlord when you don't have it.

Edited December 27, 2008 by Maelstrom Vortex

[LeVentNoir]

Actually, point 4 needs adjusted. When there is an IG loss in tech, players should rp the loss in tech over a period of time of 2 weeks to a month unless they can recover. Using the database as a protective shield to cover yourself from the same woes everyone else in the game goes through from time to time is getting old. Otherwise.. there's no reason I shouldn't shoot my tech to 9000 and then sell it off again and play at 9000 tech for the rest of eternity.

You see my point in why I feel this needs be done?

Well, can you get to 9000 tech?

Getting to even 3000 is a large effort. The database is there to stop CN IG interfering with our RP. Example, Mudd is in polar. Polar got stomped. Why does mudd have to lose RP ability for no IC reason? And if it is a curbstomp like wars are these days, you won't recover, well not in a period worth talking about.

Actually, with your edit, I must agree. It is maintained like a baboon enclosure.

Edited December 27, 2008 by LeVentNoir

[Mirreille]

That should suit everyone.

It should, but you know quite well that none of the 3 merged nations have accepted that, and that they consider merging to give some sort of tech bonus through shared research facilities. That was discussed in OOC before, and more or less agreed on by the majority. I don't want to get the Mods involved, but if we all can't find something that we all agree on I am not sure what else we can do.

Frankly I think averaging makes more sense, since you have to diffuse the technology to the lower tech parts of merged states somehow(i.e. like East and West Germany had to do.) Maybe a bonus of some sort for the shared research facilities would be in order as well. That is something that could be discussed though.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

You have 5 positions you can be in.

1: You play by IG stats.

2: You play by IG stats, with a formal tech sharing agreement. (a link to the tech sharing agreement is required to prevent false claims.)

3: You are a part of a Merged nation. Your tech is the average of the IG techs of the mergees. (a link to the merger roleplay is required to prevent false claims.)

4: You have had your data recorded on the database, but suffered a IG loss in stats. You must roleplay your decline to your new IG stat level in 2 weeks to 4 weeks unless you can recover. What you do recover to in that time, becomes your new roleplay tech level. You may continue to participate in tech sharing, but the levels of technology must adjust based on this decline immediately as partner's equipment breaks down if you are a supplier. If you are a receiver of tech sharing, then you must re-calculate your benefit from the sharing equation and roleplay based on your new technology level. If the technology level does not exceed 100 then the change does not need to be noted.. (this is for tech trading purposes in game).

5: You have suffered both a IG and RP loss of tech. You play to your new, lower IG stats.

Tech sharing formula from LVN's thread: RPtech = IGtech + 0.25 * ( Highest sharer tech - IGtech )

Merged Tech Formula: RPtech = (Technology level for nation A + technology level for nation B +.......)/(# of merged nations)

Proposed modified version. (Final Draft)

Edited December 27, 2008 by Maelstrom Vortex

[LeVentNoir]

Then MV, whats the point in the database? And you left out form #5, "the new lower IG tech."

[Bacharth]

Rule number 4 is definitely not fair to those who sell tech. They will constantly be rping a decline and rise. I rule number 4 needs to be revised, to removed that rp levels down.

Unless, that is, they went from like, 10,000 to 0 tech, or something with less exaggeration.

[LeVentNoir]

I would say that 4 be revised, so that you don't have to RP a downfall. Your RP nation stays at its same level, but won't advance untill you pass your database stat.

[Silhouette]

This is why I don't bother with tech sharing. It is too much hassle for everyone. Just be happy with your stats, and hope someone will give you a helping hand every once in a while....

EDIT: I mean lets be honest, it is much more fun to RP devising a new technology than RPing, oh, look, our allies gave us a hot @#$% piece of military tech, lets go blow @#$% up!!!

Edited December 27, 2008 by Silhouette

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Sorry, I will not add that to my draft unless the database is sufficiently maintained and updated and that database has not been. Besides, again. All should play the hands their dealt. How do we know when a claim is truly of disaster.. and not of intent? That the tech has not been sold?

There is also no historical evidence to maintain they ever actually hit that stat. There are to many problems with the data base system. It's antiquated.

Edited December 27, 2008 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Otto Verteidiger]

This is why I don't bother with tech sharing. It is too much hassle for everyone. Just be happy with your stats, and hope someone will give you a helping hand every once in a while....

EDIT: I mean lets be honest, it is much more fun to RP devising a new technology than RPing, oh, look, our allies gave us a hot @#$% piece of military tech, lets go blow @#$% up!!!

Yea, tech sharing takes away some of the point of having good allies that will defend you.

[LeVentNoir]

EDIT: I mean lets be honest, it is much more fun to RP devising a new technology than RPing, oh, look, our allies gave us a hot @#$% piece of military tech, lets go blow @#$% up!!!

Talk to sumeragi....

lol

[Maelstrom Vortex]

This is why I don't bother with tech sharing. It is too much hassle for everyone. Just be happy with your stats, and hope someone will give you a helping hand every once in a while....

EDIT: I mean lets be honest, it is much more fun to RP devising a new technology than RPing, oh, look, our allies gave us a hot @#$% piece of military tech, lets go blow @#$% up!!!

Some of us are to busy building our economies and would rather outsource our military hardware acquisitions. Besides, if we're going to allow merging.. trading's only a step away.. and it does happen in reality so there's a precedent for it. There's also a precedent for merging.. handled correctly.

[Silhouette]

I think you are missing the point.....

[Maelstrom Vortex]

National pride is just a perk really.. I understand your perspective.. but if you're only concerned about efficiency then it's not a priority.