Bionic redhead Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Remember when Britain attacked the Falklands? Erm, nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterman1043 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) From my non-FA and completely unofficial understanding. You (your alliance, no idea who was talked to) were asked multiple times to stop sending tech to DT and your [alliance] response was, "hold on, let me see if I can have more of my members find DT nations to send tech to." That's when you chose sides and that's when your acts of war were acted upon. You'll note that smontag only attacked nations with active aid slots sending tech to DT. While I as well do not know what happened behind closed doors do know that our (loosely used here) position is for the freedom of whom to tech deal with during war. Those aid slots were CLEARLY used for tech dealing and correctly documented as such in the reason for aid. This is just egregious and an overreach of boundaries for the sole purpose of looking for nations in range to target. Edited January 20, 2015 by Hunterman1043 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexio15 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 While I as well do not know what happened behind closed doors do know that our (loosely used here) position is for the freedom of whom to tech deal with during war. Those aid slots were CLEARLY used for tech dealing and correctly documented as such in the reason for aid. This is just egregious. To be honest not sure why the two of us are still arguing the matter man. It's just falling on death ears and whatever we say won't make a difference. WFF this bit is for you guys. You need rebuild aid after message me I will donate some aid slots for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterman1043 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 To be honest not sure why the two of us are still arguing the matter man. It's just falling on death ears and whatever we say won't make a difference. WFF this bit is for you guys. You need rebuild aid after message me I will donate some aid slots for you. Exactly. Aid slots coming y'alls way. [OOC]Read my edited post though, I think I made the point better.[/OOC] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razgriz24 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 From my non-FA and completely unofficial understanding. You (your alliance, no idea who was talked to) were asked multiple times to stop sending tech to DT and your [alliance] response was, "hold on, let me see if I can have more of my members find DT nations to send tech to." That's when you chose sides and that's when your acts of war were acted upon. You'll note that smontag only attacked nations with active aid slots sending tech to DT. //just sayin' ///Don't get to see all the back room FA talks so I could be missing something.. feel free to correct anything I've said that's incorrect. ////It's well known that slashies come in threes. Your diplomat would not understand my official response as our position of non-agression. And yes, after him repeating himself in various ways of the same thing, I said "I have been trying to get another DT tech deal but no one has gotten back to me yet today.". The point is that Fark wouldnt budge. We are small, why should we stop doing what we do? We participate with which alliances WE choose, not FARK or anyone else. Speaking of "sides", I was doing tech deals with your "side" during the war, and I even mentioned that to the fark diplomat. It doesnt matter, if Farkistan wants some infra and blood, we will happily make it as interesting as we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyt2k Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 So both sides attack alliances for sending aid to people they're at war with And yet people on both sides are trying to claim they're in the right Newsflash, aiding enemies of war has always been a no go, but if WFF want to fight over it, they have every right to do so It's so funny to see two people doing the same thing trying to make the other look like the bad guy Get over yourselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterman1043 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=327679 The top two are CLEARLY marked as being war aid. The following slots are CLEARLY marked as being tech deals... Big differance from our side of thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EViL0nE Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Your diplomat would not understand my official response as our position of non-agression. And yes, after him repeating himself in various ways of the same thing, I said "I have been trying to get another DT tech deal but no one has gotten back to me yet today.". The point is that Fark wouldnt budge. We are small, why should we stop doing what we do? We participate with which alliances WE choose, not FARK or anyone else. Speaking of "sides", I was doing tech deals with your "side" during the war, and I even mentioned that to the fark diplomat. It doesnt matter, if Farkistan wants some infra and blood, we will happily make it as interesting as we can.You can't take a stance of non-agression while willfully commiting acts of war. Well, you can. It's just silly. Just as you say we can't make you view sending tech as hostile, you can't make us (or the majority of Planet Bob) view sending tech as neutral. We explained our position and what our next step would be, you explained your position and continued on that path. Attacks on those sending tech to our enemy are the result of that conflict of opinion. So instead of trying to nail yourself to a cross over it, let's just agree to disagree and I'm sure at some point our alliances will discuss where to go from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterman1043 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (or the majority of Planet Bob) I think it's a lot less people than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 If Fark is hitting everyone who tech deals with alliances at war with them, then good for Fark. If they get selective about it, then they're cowards. Simple as that. Hey, look at me being consistent and stuff. (Polaris, take note. You may want to try it sometime) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razgriz24 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'm not nailing myself to a cross and I'm not trying to puss out of being attacked. I just don't feel that you guys are very diplomatic or noble. Original message to Fark when I was approached... I can definitely understand your position and point in bringing this up. However, we are very small and DT is our friend via our treaty with Sengoku and Reavers. As a small alliance, we can certainly use all the tech deals we can get. In that same note, we also have obligations to only tech deal with allied and friendly alliances via our protectorate and also the WFF charter. Like I said, I totally get your point about aiding your enemy, but your enemy is in fact our friend. When we tech deal with them, it is not to attack FARK. It is to help friendly nations get tech and for us to make money, while building a bond of friendship. My point about us being small is that we are too small to influence a war in any way, whether it be by tech deals or by engaging in warfare. With that in mind, I would expect a large alliance like FARK to recognize that we mean no threat to your existence in any way, even while continuing tech deals, because the amount of tech and cash exchanged is so insignificant in the greater scheme of things. I do not know what FARK would expect from us, or what you guys plan to do... Can you shed some light on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Maybe y'all shouldn't view tech deals as a hostile act. Providing material support to an opponent has been viewed as a hostile act since this game began. Not quite sure why this memo is only getting here now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarkin Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Some folks love to call DBDC bullies, but really, what else can you call this overreaction by Fark? Yesterday, according to my quick eyeball check of their alliance aid screen, DT alone had active tech deals as a buyer with the following alliances: WTF, GOP, NPO, R&R, VE, NG, TSK, MW, Atlas, tJL, Reavers, TSC, SLAP, aNiMaLz, War Pigs, Riot Society, HRE, CoIS, TIA, Viking Swords, Entente and WFF. But, hell, let's narrow that down to just the active deals as of yesterday where they were in the "receiving tech" stage instead of the "sending aid" phase of it: WTF, GOP, VE, MW, tJL, TSC, SLAP, aNiMaLz, War Pigs, Riot Society, CoIS, TIA and WFF. What about the other alliances at war with Fark? NoR has received tech from GATO and War Pigs. GLoF has received tech from TTK, aNiMaLz, Sengoku, Limitless Nexus, War Pigs, UCR, SRA, and Vae Victis. ODN has received tech from VE, The Sovereign Order and DEFCON 1. DS has received tech from Kashmir, aNiMaLz, TIF and Aztech. So, really, here's the full 25-alliance list: WTF, GOP, VE, MW, GATO, TTK, Sengoku, tJL, TSC, Kashmir, SLAP, aNiMaLz, War Pigs, Limitless Nexus, UCR, SRA, Vae Victus, Riot Society, The Sovereign Order, DEFCON 1, TIF, Aztech, CoIS, TIA and WFF. Which of these things is not like the other? Oh, WFF was the weakest one with six members and exactly one wonder (a recently-purchased stock market) to their names? Wow. They must really by pumping out a ton of aid to DT to merit this kind of singling-out, huh? Oh, they only had active tech deals with five DT nations, three of whom were out of range of Fark, and the other two of whom received a total of 200 tech each? Oh. I guess that really does merit smacking them around, huh? They were definitely the one alliance out of the 25 listed above who were just making an incredible difference. An awful lot of folks in this coalition like Fark, and another large group of folks in this coalition respect their military capability, so Fark ended up getting a pretty decent match-up compared to Polar. Obviously, they've decided that this gives them the leeway to go on the offensive, which is reasonable. The fact that they've decided to do so by bullying the absolute weakest tech selling micro they could find is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EViL0nE Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 If Fark is hitting everyone who tech deals with alliances at war with them, then good for Fark. If they get selective about it, then they're cowards. Simple as that. Hey, look at me being consistent and stuff. (Polaris, take note. You may want to try it sometime)Thus far, from what I know, we have been consistent. WFF is just the only AA to this point that has taken our inquiries to mean they should try and find ways to send more tech to our enemies and force our hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterman1043 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Some folks love to call DBDC bullies, but really, what else can you call this overreaction by Fark? Yesterday, according to my quick eyeball check of their alliance aid screen, DT alone had active tech deals as a buyer with the following alliances: WTF, GOP, NPO, R&R, VE, NG, TSK, MW, Atlas, tJL, Reavers, TSC, SLAP, aNiMaLz, War Pigs, Riot Society, HRE, CoIS, TIA, Viking Swords, Entente and WFF. But, hell, let's narrow that down to just the active deals as of yesterday where they were in the "receiving tech" stage instead of the "sending aid" phase of it: WTF, GOP, VE, MW, tJL, TSC, SLAP, aNiMaLz, War Pigs, Riot Society, CoIS, TIA and WFF. What about the other alliances at war with Fark? NoR has received tech from GATO and War Pigs. GLoF has received tech from TTK, aNiMaLz, Sengoku, Limitless Nexus, War Pigs, UCR, SRA, and Vae Victis. ODN has received tech from VE, The Sovereign Order and DEFCON 1. DS has received tech from Kashmir, aNiMaLz, TIF and Aztech. So, really, here's the full 25-alliance list: WTF, GOP, VE, MW, GATO, TTK, Sengoku, tJL, TSC, Kashmir, SLAP, aNiMaLz, War Pigs, Limitless Nexus, UCR, SRA, Vae Victus, Riot Society, The Sovereign Order, DEFCON 1, TIF, Aztech, CoIS, TIA and WFF. Which of these things is not like the other? Oh, WFF was the weakest one with six members and exactly one wonder (a recently-purchased stock market) to their names? Wow. They must really by pumping out a ton of aid to DT to merit this kind of singling-out, huh? Oh, they only had active tech deals with five DT nations, three of whom were out of range of Fark, and the other two of whom received a total of 200 tech each? Oh. I guess that really does merit smacking them around, huh? They were definitely the one alliance out of the 25 listed above who were just making an incredible difference. An awful lot of folks in this coalition like Fark, and another large group of folks in this coalition respect their military capability, so Fark ended up getting a pretty decent match-up compared to Polar. Obviously, they've decided that this gives them the leeway to go on the offensive, which is reasonable. The fact that they've decided to do so by bullying the absolute weakest tech selling micro they could find is ridiculous. No one could have said it better. Providing material support to an opponent has been viewed as a hostile act since this game began. Not quite sure why this memo is only getting here now. Idk about you but I've always been able to continue tech dealing during war with no issues... Both as a seller and as a buyer. We don't see it as support though because it is a fair swap. People are just butthurt because we are so tech heavy. Edited January 20, 2015 by Hunterman1043 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razgriz24 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Thus far, from what I know, we have been consistent. WFF is just the only AA to this point that has taken our inquiries to mean they should try and find ways to send more tech to our enemies and force our hand. By that, do you mean that we were the first to choose freedom of choice over threats of terrorism and THEN extortion (recommended that we aid fark at one point, to cover "damages")? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Funny, I didn't realize that World Freedom Federation chose "sides" in global wars without being asked. It seems that Fark decided that for us. We will continue to defend freedom as well as the rights of all those who oppose it, hopefully our numbers rise to oppose tyranny on planet bob. Fark had the opportunity to hold diplomatic discussion on our forums. Instead, they just demanded we stop our cashflow AS WELL AS alienate our alliance from anyone they saw fit. That is unacceptable. Now we will do all we can to fight back. Uh no. Clearly you chose sides by sending aid to people at war with FARK. Now this is something that everybody knows is a role of the dice because it has always been considered an act of war on Planet Bob. Normally however the alliances do not worry about it if they are aiding the winning side because nobody can do anything about it. You rolled the dice and this time you lost. Do not try and blame your actions on others. You took the risk. Playing the victim either means you are clueless or bad at trying to gain good PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EViL0nE Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 By that, do you mean that we were the first to choose freedom of choice over threats of terrorism and THEN extortion (recommended that we aid fark at one point, to cover "damages")?Terrorism? Really? Like I said, accept that we're all making choices that led us here and get off the cross.No one is saying you don't have freedom to choose what you do, this isn't an age of viceroys and forced disbandment.We're saying tha when you make choices to aid our enemies, and continue to make those choices after we explain our position, we may then exercise our freedom to attack you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterman1043 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Think of a tech deal as a contract and imagine what we are feeling as we had paid for that tech fulfilling our end of the contract. If those nations didn't aid the tech that is owed, we would be pretty bummed out about it and try to collect what is owed. HOWEVER, if we had found out that they were pressured into not fulfilling their contract by an alliance we are at war or some other outside party with then we would go above and beyond to hammer in those nails against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Idk about you but I've always been able to continue tech dealing during war with no issues... Both as a seller and as a buyer. We don't see it as support though because it is a fair swap. People are just butthurt because we are so tech heavy. Then you've gotten lucky until now. Look at GPA's policy of not tech dealing with alliances at war, or at the "no aiding remaining combatant" terms in white peace for reasons why sending tech to warring nations counts as support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterman1043 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Then you've gotten lucky until now. What do you mean until now? lol. I'm not the one being attacked, those poor bastards are. Edited January 20, 2015 by Hunterman1043 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razgriz24 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 We can handle it, just wish they could handle this diplomatically first. I kinda like gopherbashi's quote, it's related: "I sometimes feel like peace talks are two people bashing their heads against the same wall until they both mutually agree that it is not enjoyable." Here is some mood music, we can call this our song Fark :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTOQUnvI3CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterman1043 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) We can handle it, just wish they could handle this diplomatically first. I kinda like gopherbashi's quote, it's related: "I sometimes feel like peace talks are two people bashing their heads against the same wall until they both mutually agree that it is not enjoyable." Here is some mood music, we can call this our song Fark :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTOQUnvI3CA I feel ya, well if y'all don't want the war aid, perhaps move them over to be 6/100 tech deals? :D Edited January 20, 2015 by Hunterman1043 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razgriz24 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 I feel ya, well if y'all don't want the war aid, perhaps move them over to be 6/100 tech deals? :D Consider the war aid as war bonds! WFF tries to make it policy not to take anything for free, for something given has no value. Tech will surely follow at some point :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterman1043 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Consider the war aid as war bonds! WFF tries to make it policy not to take anything for free, for something given has no value. Tech will surely follow at some point :D Cool beans! :D Edited January 20, 2015 by Hunterman1043 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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