The GM's Court

[iKrolm]

Even without prior RP there would be multiple computers, multiple government agencies, some offline servers, et cetera. I don't think you could have hacked [i]all[/i] of it with only two spy rolls. Of course you can always claim to have all of it; then it'd be up to someone to call your bluff.

Edited June 19, 2011 by iKrolm

[Triyun]

I agree with iKrolm if Kitex objects. But I think this benefits him, so he won't players can do things so long as they both accept it even if others normally would not agree to it.

[HHAYD]

Sargun, I'm fairly Kitex's IT departments are smart enough to ensure that their classified information aren't directly connected to the internet. You would need spy rolls to sneak in someone to do the manual labor of sneaking past security and do some cable plugging or sweet-talking to one of the IT departments' technicians.

Just because he didn't RPed much IT tech stuff doesn't mean his IT security is crap. Would you like for me to conduct some spy rolls to poison your water supply and state; "Well, you never RPed the water distribution system in your country, so I'm assuming they had no security at all."

Edited June 19, 2011 by HHAYD

[Kankou]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308518659' post='2734970']
I agree with iKrolm if Kitex objects. But I think this benefits him, so he won't players can do things so long as they both accept it even if others normally would not agree to it.
[/quote]
Not sure if that should be allowed if it goes against common sense. Just saying.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1308525039' post='2735064']
Not sure if that should be allowed if it goes against common sense. Just saying.
[/quote]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1308523266' post='2735044']
Gas Fields Developed


The Greater Korean Federation is proud to announce that that with the discovery of massive natural gas reserves in all of its seas, it has finished developing wells for future usage. As it turned out, there is 7,504,000,000,000 square meters worth of gas located all throughout the West, South, and East Korean Sea.

Currently thousands of valves have been installed in all fields, ready to release the gas when needed by remote control.
[/quote]




So does Korea having a 7.504 trillion cubic meter reserve in the seas around it, with wells and thousands of valves being installed instantly.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Voodoo Nova

[Kankou]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1308525082' post='2735067']
So does Korea having a 7.504 trillion cubic meter reserve in the seas around it, with wells and thousands of valves being installed instantly.
[/quote]
Yeah, sorry about the total reserves. Edited to something more realistic.

[iKrolm]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1308525504' post='2735073']
Yeah, sorry about the total reserves. Edited to something more realistic.
[/quote]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1308523266' post='2735044']
Gas Fields Developed


The Greater Korean Federation is proud to announce that that with the discovery of massive natural gas reserves in all of its seas, it has finished developing wells for future usage. As it turned out, there is 478,500,000,000 square meters worth of gas located all throughout the West, South, and East Korean Sea.

Currently thousands of valves have been installed in all fields, ready to release the gas when needed by remote control.
[/quote]


Korea measures gas volume in square meters? o_O

I believe the issue was the instant tapping of the fields though, not the volume.

Edited June 19, 2011 by iKrolm

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='iKrolm' timestamp='1308526301' post='2735092']
Korea measures gas volume in square meters? o_O

I believe the issue was the instant tapping of the fields though, not the volume.
[/quote]

It's both, considering Korea has 50 billion cubic meters of natural gas reserves total.

[Kankou]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1308526472' post='2735095']
It's both, considering Korea has 50 billion cubic meters of natural gas reserves total.
[/quote]
And? I believe that it's an unwritten rule that all nations have all kinds of resources available to them. Plus, there has been plenty of signs that both Koreas do have substantial reserves, it's just that the EEZ conflicts with PRC/Japan prevents full-scale exploration.

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1308525082' post='2735067']


So does Korea having a 7.504 trillion cubic meter reserve in the seas around it, with wells and thousands of valves being installed instantly.
[/quote]

This has literally nothing to do with the current discussion and is a terrible way to refute the point that was made. I hope you feel bad because you should.

[quote][color=#1C2837][size=2]Sargun, I'm fairly Kitex's IT departments are smart enough to ensure that their classified information aren't directly connected to the internet. You would need spy rolls to sneak in someone to do the manual labor of sneaking past security and do some cable plugging or sweet-talking to one of the IT departments' technicians.[/quote][/size][/color]
[color=#1C2837][size=2]
[/size][/color]
[color=#1C2837][size=2]This is not true for two reasons. First, there are ways to access information that isn't posted on the internet through the internet. You can hack a computer and get its information without that information being posted on the internet first. I can hack your computer and find your private information without ever going into your house. Second, that's a lot of spy rolls and eventually one is going to fail which is completely unrealistic when you consider how much more advanced Sargun is than Kitex, but that's a different discussion.[/size][/color]

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1308528386' post='2735141']
This is not true for two reasons. First, there are ways to access information that isn't posted on the internet through the internet. You can hack a computer and get its information without that information being posted on the internet first. I can hack your computer and find your private information without ever going into your house. Second, that's a lot of spy rolls and eventually one is going to fail which is completely unrealistic when you consider how much more advanced Sargun is than Kitex, but that's a different discussion.
[/quote]
The question is, can you hack a computer, or a network, [i]that isn't connected to the internet[/i]?

I think not. It's common practice to separate critical networks from the public networks. The only reason why critical networks get hacked anyways is because some moron plugged in an infected device into a computer that's connected to the critical network, or is a saboteur.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1308529015' post='2735151']
The question is, can you hack a computer, or a network, [i]that isn't connected to the internet[/i]?
[/quote]
Did he specify defences that were multiple, non-internet connected computers? Because I seem to remember players like Uberstein specifically RPing their systems being closed-network, non-internet connected systems in order to avoid normal spy rolls. I believe that GMs have ruled in the past that security systems must be RP'd beforehand so that you can't just throw some !@#$%^&* out after a roll has already been made.

I understand the concerns raised, and I myself realize hours later that my two spy rolls seem a bit over the top, but I figure that if you don't put the time in to even put a single line of "not all systems are internet accessible" then you really shouldn't be given that much latitude.

[quote]
Just because he didn't RPed much IT tech stuff doesn't mean his IT security is crap. Would you like for me to conduct some spy rolls to poison your water supply and state; "Well, you never RPed the water distribution system in your country, so I'm assuming they had no security at all."[/quote]
Hundreds of Pentagon computers can get hacked or get shut down simultaneously by simple Chinese attacks. What I'm doing is even simpler than an attack - disable security, copy/paste.

[Michael McBride]

Requesting two spy rolls on Korea to discover the location of nuclear missile silos and nuclear reactors. Gracias.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/That_Bum/kankouspy.png[/img]

[kitex]

[quote name='Sargun' timestamp='1308530107' post='2735173']
Did he specify defences that were multiple, non-internet connected computers? Because I seem to remember players like Uberstein specifically RPing their systems being closed-network, non-internet connected systems in order to avoid normal spy rolls. I believe that GMs have ruled in the past that security systems must be RP'd beforehand so that you can't just throw some !@#$%^&* out after a roll has already been made.

I understand the concerns raised, and I myself realize hours later that my two spy rolls seem a bit over the top, but I figure that if you don't put the time in to even put a single line of "not all systems are internet accessible" then you really shouldn't be given that much latitude.


Hundreds of Pentagon computers can get hacked or get shut down simultaneously by simple Chinese attacks. What I'm doing is even simpler than an attack - disable security, copy/paste.
[/quote]

I do not mind that Sargun hacked me as I did not do any in-depth RP of my computer security.

Edited June 20, 2011 by kitex

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1308529015' post='2735151']
The question is, can you hack a computer, or a network, [i]that isn't connected to the internet[/i]?

I think not. It's common practice to separate critical networks from the public networks. The only reason why critical networks get hacked anyways is because some moron plugged in an infected device into a computer that's connected to the critical network, or is a saboteur.
[/quote]

What Sargun said is important to note as well. Government-level hackers can hack into other governments' systems to obtain information without having to sneak in and do it manually. Chinese hackers attack US systems all the time, and US cyberwarfare can easily do the same, although we are less keen on using our power.

[Triyun]

[img]http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/2513/spyingkorea.png[/img]

SAT INT for: Korean Naval Positions (including units to be fielded as Kankou buys up). Also escavation and equipment changes suggesting nuclear enrichment and assembly plants. As I until about a year ago IC owned Korea and moved the old nuclear equipment away I feel I'd have the expertise to compare and contrast changes and make judgements here.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Triyun

[Sargun II]

What's the %, Triyun?

[Triyun]

70.

[Executive Minister]

[img]http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/mofailla/triySMH.png[/img]
SMH and Triyun both have 70% odds

0-70 win, 71-100 fail.

4 Wins.

[Triyun]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=102852&view=findpost&p=2735587

I would like to request a ruling specific to the claim of possessing an extensive system immune to any weapon, including nuclear weapons in quantities to hold a large army:

[quote]So extensive were the infrastructure, built since the days of the Democractic People's Republic of Korea, were enough to survive massive nuclear bombings. It would be a long term war, [b]fighting in the underground bunkers which would be practically immune to what the world has currently[/b][/quote]

It seems to me that this is A) claiming god moding level of shelter immune to all nukes and B) claiming to possess the fall out shelter without an in game equivalent. Now obviously some reasonable level of fall out shelter system can exist and has existed in CN RP, but claiming to have one immune to Hydrogen bombs that can house 800, 000 seems to clearly be in violation of this.

If people are capped on the size of hydrogen bomb they can build in game, shelters too should be capped. I believe it was also a ruling against Tiministan when he attempted to claim his facility was designed to survive up to a 50 megatonner that multiple blows from smaller once could do equivalent damage.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Triyun

[Centurius]

[img]http://data.treksimming.com/rolls/odds.png[/img]

2 rolls please.

First one: SATINT on the locations of airports, airbases, etc. In essence any facility the Koreans use to launch aircraft.
Second One: If the first roll fails the same request as above, otherwise SATINT on the locations of Korean ground forces.

[Kankou]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308575488' post='2735785']
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=102852&view=findpost&p=2735587

I would like to request a ruling specific to the claim of possessing an extensive system immune to any weapon, including nuclear weapons in quantities to hold a large army:

It seems to me that this is A) claiming god moding level of shelter immune to all nukes and B) claiming to possess the fall out shelter without an in game equivalent. Now obviously some reasonable level of fall out shelter system can exist and has existed in CN RP, but claiming to have one immune to Hydrogen bombs that can house 800, 000 seems to clearly be in violation of this.

If people are capped on the size of hydrogen bomb they can build in game, shelters too should be capped. I believe it was also a ruling against Tiministan when he attempted to claim his facility was designed to survive up to a 50 megatonner that multiple blows from smaller once could do equivalent damage.
[/quote]

Well..... I'm not using one shelter (spread out all over the place, given that almost all of eastern and northern Korea is pretty mountainous), and unless we start constant firing of megaton-class weapons, thing will take some time to break through. Also, my hasty typing made thing s a bit extreme, which is entirely my fault.


Could we keep all non-roll discussions connected to the current to the war OOC thread? Just saying since I think we're going for the long term on this.

[Triyun]

Give me a second set of rolls, SAT INT on tunnel entrances and enemy sigint intercepts.

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1308576933' post='2735795']
[img]http://data.treksimming.com/rolls/odds.png[/img]

2 rolls please.

First one: SATINT on the locations of airports, airbases, etc. In essence any facility the Koreans use to launch aircraft.
Second One: If the first roll fails the same request as above, otherwise SATINT on the locations of Korean ground forces.
[/quote]

[img]http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/mofailla/cent.png?t=1308577597[/img]

Same odds, win and a loss.

[Triyun]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95308&view=findpost&p=2552587

I would like to call the GM attention to this claim about building a fleet inside a mountain. Korea seems to be operating on the Uberstein principle which I thought we had all agreed against.

First Korea has never maintained a navy in game and is claiming the resources to have build a huge one which it never has paid upkeep on IG. Secondly it is claiming both its nuclear facilities, its entire army, and its navy are all built in underground cities. This from a nation with again NO fall out shelter. This seems to be a pretty clear case of god moding and over reach to make oneself immune from damage. I would request that the GMs either wipe this completely or make the Koreans A) RP the construction of a navy rather than having it standing and never pay upkeep. and B) make the Koreans RP a much more reasonable level of underground development for what Kankou's IG nation possesses.