The Parable of the Angel and the Devil

[nippy]

[quote name='Hyperbad' timestamp='1286243312' post='2474953']
In fairness this could be argued as a result of those who would not enjoy simply not visiting preferring isntead to either delete, fight it out, or join an alliance.
[/quote]


[quote name='Hyperbad' timestamp='1286271091' post='2475768']
Seeing as how I made no claims either way on the mercy board's impact on new player retention and only stated it's a possibility there might be one and your only quoting me I have no idea who you're arguing with. You may wish to clarify this in the hopes of your desired opponent will respond to you.
[/quote]

You posed the hypothetical situation above as a method to argue against my post after directly quoting it. Did you forget that you did that or something?

[Mirreille]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1286259112' post='2475668']
I think the point is that, while we understand that the concept of such a board could be displeasing or off-putting to those who are not familiar with it, in the end it isn't a particularly painful process for those who let go of their reservations and embrace the experience.
[/quote]

Yes, it's easy to grovel and lick GOONS' boots if you only think positive!

This thread does remind me of the ending to the movie The Apple.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Grumpdogg' timestamp='1286004040' post='2472059']
In the period where there was no GOONS, there was still politics and war. I know its shocking to think these forums would be active without 10000 GOONS topics, but its true. In fact it was more pragmatic and frankly, more interesting. So no we won't miss you, feel free to leave ASAP.
[/quote]
[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1286029292' post='2472161']
Most alliances tech raid. Most alliances raid then offer peace or tell them peace is available. These alliances dont get crap for raiding. If raiding was all you wanted that is how you would raid. You want to raid someone then make them grovel for freedom this is why people have a problem with you. This is how old GOONS operated too and before you complain that Im a moralist I dont care how you raid but others do and this kind of ritual humiliation/extortion of a raided nation or defeated enemy went a long way to seeing old GOONS run out during an angry uprising. You play a victim but you are not one. (re: your the world needs us comment) The world doesnt need you and managed just fine between GOON alliances. GOONS however need the world.
[/quote]
Yeah, this is what I thought about 5 seconds into the diatribe. This is a shallow piece that discards all history except the last, what, 4 months? Less? It's disappointing, too, because Lamuella has been around since at least August 2007 so he knows that everything he wrote in the OP is in opposition to the sum of history.
Opinions on techraiding are one aspect of people's stances in the game. I wouldn't even say it's a deciding factor for any alliance except Celestial Being and maybe Avalon. When was the last time there was a big thread about techraiding in general? When Athens attacked Knights of Ni? 6 motnhs ago. When Walford was still active 2 years ago? Any thread that has a techraiding element will get some "all techraiding is bad" replies, but for the most part any discussions on techraiding are centered around specific screwups by specific alliances.

Generalization is GOONS's friend, but there simply isn't any movement of Dudle Do-Rights to stop techraiding that threatens all raiding Snidley Whiplashes.

No. Evil is someone like EphriamGrey who went around engineering the destruction of entire alliances and blocs by faking extensive logs and screenshots while big bro VE wrote him blank checks. PZI-listing people who opposed him on the OWF.

I guess you've got VE's checkbook, but game-splitting evil you're not.

The world went a year without you and had every sort of ideological and political dichotomies that caused huge wars, you came and went and were taken down for politics not over something so minute as raiding, and after you were gone the world had huge political splits that caused huge wars. Now you've been back a year and, meh, there's no big result. You came back into the world subservient to an Order just like you came the first time, you got tossed by the Orders like last time.
You've spent 6 months cozying up to your old friends in MK and Genmay, but your NS growth and usefulness have stalled, and as your roving bands of ignorant raiders step on toe after toe you're more of a liability than a partner. Even this new bloc looks like a VE project where you are just some C&G leftovers that they can snatch off the table to use as their own tools.

I'd even say I'm your most vocal critic, but as far as I'm concerned VE is more insidious than you. They just know how to keep their heads down.

[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' timestamp='1286205894' post='2474230']
Stalking them in real life over a browser game (and any other lame reason) is evil, extorting money or whatnot over this game is evil, but tech raiding, that's not evil.
[/quote]

Oh, you mean like this:

[quote name='Ejayrazz' timestamp='1285813468' post='2469099']
[ooc]Tell yo Goonie little friend who accessed my Myspace and distributed my photos around to back the $%&@ off. Thanks in advance.[/ooc]
[/quote]
[quote name='Ejayrazz' timestamp='1285815930' post='2469161']
Listen very carefully..and tell Greenacre so he understands because he's crying:

I am not crying over this. I understand I have things over the Internet and you're completely right; I'm just saying chill out with it. He's messaging me with my real name, etc. Just saying chill, not asking him to be kicked. Just. Chill. Get it?
[/quote]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1285815237' post='2469144']
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[/quote]


[quote name='Pinchazi' timestamp='1285819854' post='2469312']
If it makes you feel better I'll send you back some nudes.

Which side do you prefer?

Ah, never mind ...IT WILL BE A SURPRISE!
hint:if you don't want to escalate a matter,don't bring it to the forum
[/quote]


[quote name='Pinchazi' timestamp='1285821179' post='2469356']
Didn't want them,just found them,don't go crying until you speak directly.
[/quote]

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1286296265' post='2475990']
Yes, it's easy to grovel and lick GOONS' boots if you only think positive!
[/quote]
Okay seriously. Why does everyone think that GOONS has a humiliation fetish?

We just like it when people write us a short argument on why triangles are awesome, or draw wolverine spraying imolating chinchillas with a firehose, or draft a letter to Carlos Mencia asking him to stop doing comedy. Heck, in order to gain peace for TMF, Vilien wrote an essay on something pro-GOONS or other and hid a derogatory message towards GOONS in the first letter of each sentence, which we thought was amazing when we found out about it later.

I honestly can't see where grovelling and boot-licking comes into the equation.

[cookavich]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1286302721' post='2476082']
Okay seriously. Why does everyone think that GOONS has a humiliation fetish?

We just like it when people write us a short argument on why triangles are awesome, or draw wolverine spraying imolating chinchillas with a firehose, or draft a letter to Carlos Mencia asking him to stop doing comedy. Heck, in order to gain peace for TMF, Vilien wrote an essay on something pro-GOONS or other and hid a derogatory message towards GOONS in the first letter of each sentence, which we thought was amazing when we found out about it later.

I honestly can't see where grovelling and boot-licking comes into the equation.
[/quote]So, because you like it, it's not grovelling?

[ktarthan]

[quote name='cookavich' timestamp='1286302865' post='2476083']
So, because you like it, it's not grovelling?
[/quote]
No, I'm saying that what we like isn't groveling. Whether or not they grovel is their business. That isn't something we specify, because we don't care.

Taking 5 minutes to draw a picture of a cyborg fish in MS-Paint does not require grovelling. If we didn't specify otherwise, it could be a picture of a cyborg fish eating a fat neckbeard goon, and we'd probably get a laugh out of it.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1286303419' post='2476093']
No, I'm saying that what we like isn't groveling. Whether or not they grovel is their business. That isn't something we specify, because we don't care.

Taking 5 minutes to draw a picture of a cyborg fish in MS-Paint does not require grovelling. If we didn't specify otherwise, it could be a picture of a cyborg fish eating a fat neckbeard goon, and we'd probably get a laugh out of it.
[/quote]
Don't you have a period of time before they even get the terms dedicated to grovelling as you decide how harsh the terms will be, as they need to convince you why they should be given peace? Seems like you guys take great pleasure in that type of stuff and are quite proud of it from what I saw of your mercy board.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Methrage

[Mirreille]

I get the part about it not being anything heinous, and most of the time being something fun and/or silly. You're not being mean about it, you're just being like Xerxes in 300,"All that is required of you is that you kneel." Some people just don't care for that.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1286303735' post='2476102']
Don't you have a period of time before they even get the terms dedicated to grovelling as you decide how harsh the terms will be, as they need to convince you why they should be given peace? Seems like you guys take great pleasure in that type of stuff and are quite proud of it from what I saw of your mercy board.
[/quote]
Nope. They just have to fill out the required info and say "Hey I'd like the raid to stop now".

If someone is specifically EoG, as it was in your case, then they at least have to try to make their case before we'll give them terms. We generally expect our EoG's to admit their wrongdoing, and saying sorry helps, but we only care that it be sincere (or a reasonable facsimile thereof).

[quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1286303934' post='2476104']
I get the part about it not being anything heinous, and most of the time being something fun and/or silly. You're not being mean about it, you're just being like Xerxes in 300,"All that is required of you is that you kneel." Some people just don't care for that.
[/quote]
Yeah, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. In that case they can either discuss it with the raider themselves, or wait for the raid to expire.

Edited October 5, 2010 by ktarthan

[cookavich]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1286303419' post='2476093']
No, I'm saying that what we like isn't groveling. Whether or not they grovel is their business. That isn't something we specify, because we don't care.

Taking 5 minutes to draw a picture of a cyborg fish in MS-Paint does not require grovelling. If we didn't specify otherwise, it could be a picture of a cyborg fish eating a fat neckbeard goon, and we'd probably get a laugh out of it.
[/quote]What you like is humiliation.

[Hyperbad]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1286272394' post='2475773']
You posed the hypothetical situation above as a method to argue against my post after directly quoting it. Did you forget that you did that or something?
[/quote]
Not at all. I think you're missing the point in my bringing it up. I wasn't arguing in favor of that position but brought up another perspective which would account for your statement while allowing for the possibility of it having a negative impact. The reason it was brought up is precisely because your "data" doesn't account for this possibility due to a lack of information. Therefore we can not make any proper judgement. Never have I actually argued that it does have a negative impact on new player retention. The closest I've come is saying such an impact might exist but also said it probably isn't the main reason people leave.

[nippy]

[quote name='Hyperbad' timestamp='1286306472' post='2476140']
Not at all. I think you're missing the point in my bringing it up. I wasn't arguing in favor of that position but brought up another perspective which would account for your statement while allowing for the possibility of it having a negative impact. The reason it was brought up is precisely because your "data" doesn't account for this possibility due to a lack of information. Therefore we can not make any proper judgement. Never have I actually argued that it does have a negative impact on new player retention. The closest I've come is saying such an impact might exist but also said it probably isn't the main reason people leave.
[/quote]

Ah, I see. I was confused because I was misreading the intentions of your post. I myself never stated that the mercy board had a 100% success rate, however, and merely stated that most people that participated in it had a favorable opinion of it. I already realized there were those that refused to see it as anything other than a method to endure humiliation. That is simply not the intention of the mercy board. It's a great way to sift through nation leaders, though. Those with thick skins and a sense of humor don't fall through the holes in the screen. These are the type of people we like to associate with.

[Skap Q]

Youre less awesome of a bad guy than NPO was.

[Max Power]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1286302721' post='2476082']
Okay seriously. Why does everyone think that GOONS has a humiliation fetish?

We just like it when people write us a short argument on why triangles are awesome, or draw wolverine spraying imolating chinchillas with a firehose, or draft a letter to Carlos Mencia asking him to stop doing comedy. Heck, in order to gain peace for TMF, Vilien wrote an essay on something pro-GOONS or other and hid a derogatory message towards GOONS in the first letter of each sentence, which we thought was amazing when we found out about it later.

I honestly can't see where grovelling and boot-licking comes into the equation.
[/quote]
I think this is an important distinction. Doing any of these things could even be fun. Writing up a war guilt essay is what I'd call humiliation.

[nippy]

[quote name='Skap Q' timestamp='1286312577' post='2476264']
Youre less awesome of a bad guy than NPO was.
[/quote]

Your insults are underwhelming.

[Unholy]

They do have the great kicker of being true, though.

[Sandler]

I for one give thanks to Admin for the Jokers, Penguins, and Riddlers of CN, and the flavour they bring to the game. Great thread.