Viridian Entente Declaration of War

[Lukapaka]

A quick call to allies, when the Sith begin to run into peace mode.
Kick some butt, VE!

Edited August 11, 2010 by Lukapaka

[Elephant Keeper]

[quote name='Logan' timestamp='1281487096' post='2410443']
Fortunately this isn't for your entertainment, am I right?
[/quote]
Not really.

[Sulmar]

I'll agree, sedrick is a complete fool. Not quite DrDavid Banner level, but close.

[Tulafaras]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1281493427' post='2410559']
Good to know that you think this.

Obviously you've never been in an alliance that came under attack by another alliance and called up an MDP partner to [i]defend[/i] you by [i]attacking[/i] that alliance.

Good god.
[/quote]
did you miss my pronouns? I said YOU can't defend yourselve by attacking. Not that person XY cannot defend yourselve by countering for you.

If you are still missing my point let me try to illustrate it for you.
Imagine you are not in invicta for whatever reason, but instead currently idling on None while looking for a new alliance.
Now you either fear or hear that alliance X has some kind of beef with you and wants to attack you what can you do to defend yourselve? Most reasonable people would try to join a new alliance and hope to gain protection that way. Or if the alliance you have a problem with is truly pityfull you might try arming up and turtling once they attack you. What reasonable people definitly do not do is declare 2 offensive wars.

Do you get my point now? Sedricks offensive wars (which as a sidenote he had not stopped by the point where he applied to NSO, he was still attacking full throttle) in no way or form served as a defence. The only thing they did was attack TENE (which judging from his attitude on IRC was the point)

[Burning Glory]

[quote name='Sir Dingly Dang' timestamp='1281474804' post='2410161']
I'm not sure what that picture shows - as soon as one party deletes the aid, it disappears, right? My understanding is that part of the problem is that Sedrick took aid and didn't reimburse (members of) the alliance. Then he spied on a TENE member (not exposed, so my guess is that in threatening war against adzzz, he probably brought it up, and hopefully TENE has logs of the conversation if it was PM or IRC - if they have this, they should share it). He threatened war against adzzz, who then spied on him (again, the threat should be provable, and I also wonder if anyone has gotten any word from Sedrick himself?). He then attacked several TENE members.

Now, to me, even without logs of Sedrick spying on TENE, and even without proof of sedrick taking money and running to MHA (and since they rejected him, I'm wondering what was verified there), as soon as he attacked TENE, he was a rogue. He wasn't under MHA, and in fact, at least one war against TENE was declared while under "none". RoK had an obligation to attack him on behalf of their protectorate when asked.

I have no problem with NSO accepting Sedrick. And I have no problem with RoK attacking Sedrick. If NSO chooses to protect Sedrick even though he had attacked a RoK protectorate, that's their right. If RoK attacks Sedrick for attacking their protectorate, that's their right. Both sides did what was right under their charter/viewpoint/"ethics", and both sides committed an act of war under the viewpoint of the other. NSO didn't retaliate for RoK's act (attacking an NSO member without sufficient proof of roguery - and I'm just trying to see if from NSO's viewpoint) as they figured it would be handled diplomatically; RoK [b]did[/b] retaliate for NSO's act (aiding a nation they felt was a rogue) as was their choice.

Was NSO wrong in aiding Sedrick? Not in my eyes, that's their choice. Were they expressly told that such aid would be considered an act of war. Yes. Was the aid probably given in an act of spite of being told "don't do it?" Most likely, at least that's what it looks like. Does that make a darn bit of difference? Not to me. IMHO, aid being sent immediately after being told it would lead to war was basically asking for what happened next, as stupid as the ultimatum may have been in Heft's eyes. Diplomacy may have been better served by not [i]immediately[/i] aiding Sedrick, especially when it was made clear that Hoo was fully considering Sedrick a rogue nation, but that's not my call.

Regardless, Sedrick attacked TENE. Even on the off chance that it was TENE's fault somehow, which I personally don't believe, but even so, he was unaligned and attacked an alliance with a protectorate. I would expect that alliance and/or its protectorate to attack that nation regardless of what actions that rogue took afterwards. Maybe that's not NSO's way of doign things, and that's fine. But both alliances are fully within their rights to fight this stupid war.

Everything else is just NSO's "side" (not NSO) complaining about a curbstomp, and RoK's "side" trying to goad the conspiracy theorists. Which is why I still think it should be as simple as NSO agreeing that Sedrick had baggage to clear up before he should have been protected (if I'm understanding NSO's policies correctly), RoK agreeing that the speed of all these events occurring probably didn't help, and . I still think that if alliance A goes to alliance B to complain about a rogue, that it is the job of alliance A to be ready with a preponderance of evidence (not necessarily beyond a reasonable doubt), not the job of alliance B to research everything themselves, although it certainly may be wise to make inquiries even if presented with limited evidence, even if it's normally the job of the accuser to present evidence...
[/quote]

If I had the time ^^^^^this is pretty close to what I would say.....Just give all of PB the proof of Sedricks roguery, this would solve all conflict and downing of Rok.
The obvious facts "war screen" proves nothing. I'm sure that any ruler would attack another un-allied ruler if they were spied upon, I would.
The new info that was not relesed earlier war that he took aid with out paying up sounds fishy..why was this not brouht up sooner?


BG.

[Tigerdonia Redux]

You are merely a road apple, NSO.