Sanctions as a Weapon

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Biazt' date='16 April 2010 - 02:34 AM' timestamp='1271403244' post='2262576']
Did you honestly just look up a term that means something completely different in CN's context in webster? Please tell me you did not do this, it just makes you look like an idiot.
[/quote]


Then explain to me what the CN definition of a rogue is, professor. Because there seems to be a difference of opinion. You think a rogue is someone who sends aid to a nation at war and I sincerely believe that makes you look like an idiot.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 12:37 AM' timestamp='1271403453' post='2262580']
Then explain to me what the CN definition of a rogue is, professor. Because there seems to be a difference of opinion. You think a rogue is someone who sends aid to a nation at war and I sincerely believe that makes you look like an idiot.
[/quote]
We believe that a rogue is an unaligned nation which perpetrates acts of war against an alliance. GOONS considers aiding and abetting a nation/alliance that we are currently at war with to be an act of war. Thus, rogue.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Alonois' date='16 April 2010 - 03:35 AM' timestamp='1271403338' post='2262579']
But you were a nuisance to the rest of the black sphere, and demonstrably so to at least two alliances (GOONS and Umbrella). Their duty is to the black sphere members as a whole. If a sacrifice is to be made, then it is the sacrifice of the one over the sacrifice of the many.



Irrelevant. I asked you if this basic tactic was honorable. Have you rallied against teaming up against some one? Do you decry the dishonor of the most basic of tactics, the use of superior force?
[/quote]
Does the color I'm on matter? If I was blue fighting you guys would it make any difference from black? You used the sanction to try hurting me, but what color I was on didn't have a negative effect on the black team, it had a positive effect for some.

[Biazt]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 03:37 AM' timestamp='1271403453' post='2262580']
Then explain to me what the CN definition of a rogue is, professor. Because there seems to be a difference of opinion. You think a rogue is someone who sends aid to a nation at war and I sincerely believe that makes you look like an idiot.
[/quote]

Perhaps the CN wiki will suffice?

[quote]A rogue state is a nation that is unaffiliated with an alliance, team, or sometimes both that acts independently and usually in an aggressive, destructive fashion. They are considered threats to global security, and offensive action by such nations should always be considered grounds for retaliation.[/quote]

Though Ktarthan's definition works just as well.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Biazt

[Alonois]

[quote name='Methrage' date='16 April 2010 - 02:40 AM' timestamp='1271403610' post='2262582']
Does the color I'm on matter? If I was blue fighting you guys would it make any difference from black? You used the sanction to try hurting me, but what color I was on didn't have a negative effect on the black team, it had a positive effect for some.
[/quote]

It had a negative effect for a greater amount, though. You're right that color itself does not matter. Which is why this sanction would just have likely been put in place regardless of sphere. However, you were black. The hypotheticals do not matter here.

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' date='16 April 2010 - 02:35 AM' timestamp='1271403330' post='2262578']
What I really don't understand is why you didn't kick up such a fuss when TOP exercised its senatorial powers to sanction rogues when you were a member of that Order, but you're quite impassioned enough now about the issue to come into a public forum and impugn the reputation of my alliance for making use of exactly the same powers?
[/quote]

First of all this isn't about TOP. I'm not sure why they keep coming up. What I don't like about this is that Goons seem to be intervening in Methrage's war with Gramlins when they are completely capable of defending themselves.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 12:44 AM' timestamp='1271403830' post='2262588']
First of all this isn't about TOP. I'm not sure why they keep coming up. What I don't like about this is that Goons seem to be intervening in Methrage's war with Gramlins when they are completely capable of defending themselves.
[/quote]
1) Stop talking.
2) Read this entire thread: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84016
3) Make an informed decision about who is interfering with whom.

[nippy]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 09:44 AM' timestamp='1271403830' post='2262588']
First of all this isn't about TOP. I'm not sure why they keep coming up. What I don't like about this is that Goons seem to be intervening in Methrage's war with Gramlins when they are completely capable of defending themselves.
[/quote]

You're not very good at sidestepping the question. It isn't about TOP, you're right. He's asking why your reaction to sanctions is different NOW as opposed to THEN.

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Biazt' date='16 April 2010 - 02:40 AM' timestamp='1271403641' post='2262583']
Perhaps the CN wiki will suffice?

A rogue state is a nation that is unaffiliated with an alliance, team, or sometimes both that acts independently and usually in an aggressive, destructive fashion. They are considered threats to global security, and offensive action by such nations should always be considered grounds for retaliation.

[/quote]

Methrage has a declared alliance, is on a team and doesn't really seems to be a threat to global security does he? His alliance has declared war on Gramlins for a reason that many in CN feel is legitimate and they are entirely capable of defending themselves without Goons or \m/ jumping ing in. It seems as if you guys are coming to the aid of Gramlins under the guise of defending against a rogue that didn't attack you.

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='nippy' date='16 April 2010 - 02:49 AM' timestamp='1271404143' post='2262594']
You're not very good at sidestepping the question. It isn't about TOP, you're right. He's asking why your reaction to sanctions is different NOW as opposed to THEN.
[/quote]

There is nothing to sidestep, if you read my previous posts my reaction is not different.

[Biazt]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 03:52 AM' timestamp='1271404361' post='2262597']
Methrage has a declared alliance, is on a team and doesn't really seems to be a threat to global security does he? His alliance has declared war on Gramlins for a reason that many in CN feel is legitimate and they are entirely capable of defending themselves without Goons or \m/ jumping ing in. It seems as if you guys are coming to the aid of Gramlins under the guise of defending against a rogue that didn't attack you.
[/quote]

I think you need to take Ktarthan's advice in the post before mine.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Biazt

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='16 April 2010 - 02:46 AM' timestamp='1271403951' post='2262592']
1) Stop talking.
2) Read this entire thread: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84016
3) Make an informed decision about who is interfering with whom.
[/quote]

1) Make me.
2) I did.
3) I have.

[nippy]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 09:52 AM' timestamp='1271404361' post='2262597']
Methrage has a declared alliance, is on a team and doesn't really seems to be a threat to global security does he? His alliance has declared war on Gramlins for a reason that many in CN feel is legitimate and they are entirely capable of defending themselves without Goons or \m/ jumping ing in. It seems as if you guys are coming to the aid of Gramlins under the guise of defending against a rogue that didn't attack you.
[/quote]

You still haven't read the thread Ktarthan posted, obviously. Our beef with Methrage has nothing to do with Græmlins.

[Biazt]

*creates one man alliance*

*declares war*

*is not a rogue*

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Biazt' date='16 April 2010 - 12:57 AM' timestamp='1271404603' post='2262604']
*creates one man alliance*

*declares war*

*is not a rogue*
[/quote]
No dude, you need two members.

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 12:56 AM' timestamp='1271404571' post='2262602']
1) Make me.
2) I did.
3) I have.
[/quote]

In that case, I'm sorry. Your problem extends beyond the realm of my ability to point out the obvious. There's nothing I can do for you further.

Edited April 16, 2010 by ktarthan

[JimKongIl]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84290&pid=2262586&st=0&#entry2262586

Nice.

[nippy]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 10:07 AM' timestamp='1271405230' post='2262610']
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84290&pid=2262586&st=0&#entry2262586

Nice.
[/quote]

What's your point?

[Alonois]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 03:07 AM' timestamp='1271405230' post='2262610']
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84290&pid=2262586&st=0&#entry2262586

Nice.
[/quote]

Unrelated, but hilarious.

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='nippy' date='16 April 2010 - 03:08 AM' timestamp='1271405308' post='2262612']
What's your point?
[/quote]

The guy has 600 infra. If you have a problem with him why don't you guys just handle it on the battlefield?

[nippy]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 10:11 AM' timestamp='1271405471' post='2262614']
The guy has 600 infra. If you have a problem with him why don't you guys just handle it on the battlefield?
[/quote]

I am. Also, are you accusing me of something?

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='nippy' date='16 April 2010 - 03:12 AM' timestamp='1271405520' post='2262616']
I am. Also, are you accusing me of something?
[/quote]

Do I even need to?

[nippy]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='16 April 2010 - 10:13 AM' timestamp='1271405580' post='2262617']
Do I even need to?
[/quote]

I don't know...what compelled you to post that link?

[Geoffron X]

Ok, I think I understand this now? Methrage attacks Gram. GOONS doesn't care. However, he also aids a nation at war with GOONS. GOONS attacks and Umbrella sanctions at the request of their ally. Somehow by defending himself with nukes Methrage becomes a nuclear rogue? I mean, maybe Meth deserves to be attacked, but he doesn't really fit the definition of rogue (against GOONS, at least).

This is confusing.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Geoffron X

[Alonois]

[quote name='Geoffron X' date='16 April 2010 - 03:17 AM' timestamp='1271405852' post='2262621']
Ok, I think I understand this now? Methrage attacks Gram. GOONS doesn't care. However, he also aids a nation at war with GOONS. GOONS attacks and Umbrella sanctions at the request of their ally. Somehow by defending himself with nukes Methrage becomes a nuclear rogue? I mean, maybe Meth deserves to be attacked, but he doesn't really fit the definition of rogue (against GOONS, at least).

This is confusing.
[/quote]

I'd say attacking two alliances indicates a trend, especially with his arrogance.

[Biazt]

[quote name='Geoffron X' date='16 April 2010 - 04:17 AM' timestamp='1271405852' post='2262621']
Ok, I think I understand this now? Methrage attacks Gram. GOONS doesn't care. However, he also aids a nation at war with GOONS. GOONS attacks and Umbrella sanctions at the request of their ally. Somehow by defending himself with nukes Methrage becomes a nuclear rogue? I mean, maybe Meth deserves to be attacked, but he doesn't really fit the definition of rogue (against GOONS, at least).

This is confusing.
[/quote]

Take a short break, Methrage threads tend you break your brain.