Question

[kitex]

I'd like to know if it's at all possible for the CAN member nations to make nukes and also an SDI if we work together on the project. I'm not talking about a massive array of nukes, but if we were to make a limited amount, say 5.

[Sargun II]

Unless you have a nuke in-game, you cannot have nukes in RP. That's the rule.

[Lynneth]

What Sargun said.
For the SDI, you'll need the appropriate wonder.

[Centurius]

Yeah, always been the rule, always will be.

[Gunther]

I wish I had more time to spend doing this stuff. I have nukes and all those great wonders, but still haven't gotten around to putting them in my factbook.

[Zoot Zoot]

And if its not called an SDI but under a different name?
because I happen to know patriot AA systems can shoot down ICBM's before detonation.
Leave it rather last minute but it can be done.

[Lynneth]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' date='01 March 2010 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1267471962' post='2210123']
And if its not called an SDI but under a different name?
because I happen to know patriot AA systems can shoot down ICBM's before detonation.
Leave it rather last minute but it can be done.
[/quote]
SDI under a different name is still an SDI.
Requiring the wonder.

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Lynneth' date='01 March 2010 - 11:48 AM' timestamp='1267473138' post='2210138']
SDI under a different name is still an SDI.
Requiring the wonder.
[/quote]
This is correct. Anything that shoots down an ICBM requires an IG SDI.

[Centurius]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' date='01 March 2010 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1267471962' post='2210123']
And if its not called an SDI but under a different name?
because I happen to know patriot AA systems can shoot down ICBM's before detonation.
Leave it rather last minute but it can be done.
[/quote]

Use it on conventional missiles if you have defenses, but you'll need the SDI in-game to block nukes.

[Canaris]

This is all kind of silly. So you need an SDI to even possess a Patriot or S-300 missile system? I don't see how that makes sense.

[Centurius]

You don't, you need a SDI to have your systems block nuclear weapons.

[Canaris]

[quote name='Centurius' date='01 March 2010 - 04:01 PM' timestamp='1267477471' post='2210230']
You don't, you need a SDI to have your systems block nuclear weapons.
[/quote]

Considering the Patriot and S-300 alike use ground-based RADAR, it still doesn't make sense.

[Sargun II]

We go by in-game wonders = in-RP capabilities. Different wonders require different levels of strictness or relaxedness.

Having an SDI in-game is the only way to block a nuclear weapon [b]unless[/b] both parties involved agree ahead of time to a way to stop it. If I shoot a nuke at ExecutiveMinister and he asks "what if I use anti-missile systems" and I tell him to go ahead, you can do it. That generally falls under the "pre-planned" category, and rules are generally relaxed in pre-planned because A) there is no !@#$%*ing and B) there is no !@#$%*ing.

The internet wonder, meanwhile, is really up to the purchaser to use. If I buy the internet wonder, I'd RP the building of an extremely powerful supercomputer that holds information on all the citizens that can be accessed by anyone, with the proper security and blah blah blah.

[Canaris]

This sounds a little too much like the old nations looking after their own interests, what with the way the rules seem to be picked and chosen. The internet's not a threat to their power, so it doesn't have to be restricted, but anti-nuke missiles certainly are. Modern-day nations like Iran, Kazakhstan, and Syria can shoot down nukes and the only requirement for them is buying a few surplus Russian S-300V launchers, not investing a large sum of cash, elaborate satellite network, or missile defense network.

I think this ruling should be revised, in fairness. The SDI could protect the entire country, while the ground-based versions (which come in limited quantities) could only protect certain cities or areas and count as cruise missiles. Just my two cents. You deviate from the game in some capacities, afterall (choppers are clearly not bombers). The old nations will still have all their old power, while affording a bit more sensibility to everyone else. I don't have a problem basing CNRP on the IG assets/nations.

I just take issue with what looks like the old guard imparting a monopoly on power.

[Subtleknifewielder]

The problem is, an SDI as successful as the one IG does NOT EXIST in real life. So rules do have to exist to moniter the use of such things.

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='Sargun' date='01 March 2010 - 04:17 PM' timestamp='1267478460' post='2210247']
We go by in-game wonders = in-RP capabilities. Different wonders require different levels of strictness or relaxedness.

Having an SDI in-game is the only way to block a nuclear weapon [b]unless[/b] both parties involved agree ahead of time to a way to stop it. [b]If I shoot a nuke at ExecutiveMinister and he asks "what if I use anti-missile systems" and I tell him to go ahead, you can do it.[/b] That generally falls under the "pre-planned" category, and rules are generally relaxed in pre-planned because A) there is no !@#$%*ing and B) there is no !@#$%*ing.

The internet wonder, meanwhile, is really up to the purchaser to use. If I buy the internet wonder, I'd RP the building of an extremely powerful supercomputer that holds information on all the citizens that can be accessed by anyone, with the proper security and blah blah blah.
[/quote]




Sargun is correct. Some Wonders are up for more interpretation than others. For example, the AA Defense wonder is just that, just how the Manhattan Project~IC'ly your nation has nuclear capability. While I RP (or will) the Great Temple as being a labyrinthic fortress for my Capitol Building.

[quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 04:37 PM' timestamp='1267479634' post='2210280']
This sounds a little too much like the old nations looking after their own interests, what with the way the rules seem to be picked and chosen. The internet's not a threat to their power, so it doesn't have to be restricted, but anti-nuke missiles certainly are. Modern-day nations like Iran, Kazakhstan, and Syria can shoot down nukes and the only requirement for them is buying a few surplus Russian S-300V launchers, not investing a large sum of cash, elaborate satellite network, or missile defense network.

I think this ruling should be revised, in fairness. The SDI could protect the entire country, while the ground-based versions (which come in limited quantities) could only protect certain cities or areas and count as cruise missiles. Just my two cents. You deviate from the game in some capacities, afterall (choppers are clearly not bombers). The old nations will still have all their old power, while affording a bit more sensibility to everyone else. I don't have a problem basing CNRP on the IG assets/nations.
[b]
I just take issue with what looks like the old guard imparting a monopoly on power.[/b]
[/quote]

Honestly, I totally agree with you Canaris, but it cannot be helped. Such percieved 'injustices' against weak nations are what CNRP was built upon. Just bide your time and make friends, grow stronger, and remember- a nation that goes nuclear first in a conventional conflict will usually get pounded by someone bigger than them.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Executive Minister

[Canaris]

Actually, it can be helped. I'm not talking about there being strong and weak nations, I'm talking about reality being bent to cater to the strong. Unless this is, unfortunately, just another board obsessed with their e-peens that I've stumbled into.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='01 March 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1267482194' post='2210331']
Honestly, I totally agree with you Canaris, but it cannot be helped. Such percieved 'injustices' against weak nations are what CNRP was built upon.
[/quote]
Wrong. Back when I first started RPing, I had a nuclear weapon used against my country by a terrorist group even though I had no nukes myself. Technology wasn't tiered and it although I was considered about a sub-modern country I still RP'd with modern advances. Tech really only became an issue during war, and even then wars were decided more on tactics and less on numbers. Before I joined, people RP'd whatever they wanted within a certain amount of reason, and even then there was a lot of silliness and ridiculousness.

The shift to what you call the "injustices against weak nations" is when CNRP started shifting to be more directly intertwined with CN. Tech became tiered, wonders became more strict in use, nuclear missiles were capped at a ridiculously low strength, and navies became in-game only. This was mainly because the RP grew too large to be self-governed without a set of formal rules, and rules were needed to keep order. It should be reminded that I wrote the first set of CNRP Rules and Guidelines when I was under 20k NS, and more recent decisions have come from hawk_11, SarahTintagyl, and Vince_Sixx - nations not exactly known for being juggernauts.

[quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1267484238' post='2210356']
Actually, it can be helped. I'm not talking about there being strong and weak nations, I'm talking about reality being bent to cater to the strong. Unless this is, unfortunately, just another board obsessed with their e-peens that I've stumbled into.
[/quote]
Reality is bent to cater to the strong in real life, in CN, and in RP. This is, unfortunately, something you'll have to live with.

[Canaris]

[quote name='Sargun' date='01 March 2010 - 06:08 PM' timestamp='1267485117' post='2210371'][b]Reality is bent to cater to the strong in real life[/b], in CN, and in RP. This is, unfortunately, something you'll have to live with.
[/quote]

That's called a contradiction. It would be within Syria's capability, for example, to shoot down a nuke launched by the USA. This is Cold War technology versus modern technology. If you're going to impose technological limits, then you need to reinvent the technology. But I digress, if you get off on being a superpower on an RP forum, you have my condolences. This forum is meant for everyone, not a select few. I suggest going one way or the other: base everything off the game or nothing (except for, perhaps, stats). Otherwise, everything is arbitrary and specifically constructed to the tastes of a few individuals. This is neither sensible or productive for everyone.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1267485819' post='2210392']
That's called a contradiction. [b]It would be within Syria's capability, for example, to shoot down a nuke launched by the USA[/b]. This is Cold War technology versus modern technology. If you're going to impose technological limits, then you need to reinvent the technology. But I digress, if you get off on being a superpower on an RP forum, you have my condolences. This forum is meant for everyone, not a select few. I suggest going one way or the other: base everything off the game or nothing (except for, perhaps, stats). Otherwise, everything is arbitrary and specifically constructed to the tastes of a few individuals. This is neither sensible or productive for everyone.
[/quote]
Syria would have an SDI wonder.

You offer one example. I offer another: It would be within Russia's capability to stall progress on an anti-missile system in Eastern Europe. It would not be within North Korea's to stall progress on an anti-missile system in China or South Korea.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Sargun

[Canaris]

[quote name='Sargun' date='01 March 2010 - 06:21 PM' timestamp='1267485898' post='2210396']
Syria would have an SDI wonder.
[/quote]

Syria doesn't have satellites.

EDIT:

[quote name='Sargun' date='01 March 2010 - 06:21 PM' timestamp='1267485898' post='2210396']You offer one example. I offer another: It would be within Russia's capability to stall progress on an anti-missile system in Eastern Europe. It would not be within North Korea's to stall progress on an anti-missile system in China or South Korea.[/quote]

Then that needs to be roleplayed, obviously.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Canaris

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 05:22 PM' timestamp='1267485955' post='2210400']
Syria doesn't have satellites.
[/quote]

You seem to be forgetting that this is roleplay that is based off of CyberNations, not real life. I know that this being [b]forums.cybernations.net[/b] and the RP being called [b]CyberNations RolePlay[/b] might not point to that subtle fact, but it's there. Balancing in-game with real life is not a perfect solution. What is worse, however, is adhering strictly to in-game and adhering strictly to real life. Members of CNRP have shown just exactly what happens when strict in-game and strict-real life RP is done, and it wasn't pretty. In fact, the two RPs based more strictly on real life was dominated by the bigger countries even more so than the alleged domination of large nations in CNRP.

I have never been a strong nation. I play strong and I act strong but in reality my country is probably in the lower middle ring of nations. Despite this, I've beaten two of the most powerful nations in RP, been in diplomatic talks with nations stronger than I and come out unscathed, and founded what might have been the most powerful alliance in RP. The rules make you work for your success, and I've worked for my success. Being small meant nothing to me and being smaller than many still means nothing. The Nation of Nod is considerably smaller than me but is still holding its own quite well considering my numerical and technological advantage.

There is no absolute advantage of large nations over smaller ones. The rules don't foster some sort of powerful-weak division. They are meant to balance real life and CyberNations and that's what they do.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Sargun

[Canaris]

So I should just throw common sense out the window? Got it. Clearly, I can't use Cold War technology, even if the accepted rules say I can. Quite the conundrum.

And for the last time, I don't care about size or strength. But there is an obvious division concerning who the rules favor; those who wrote them.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1267487397' post='2210443']
But there is an obvious division concerning who the rules favor; those who wrote them.
[/quote]
You're saying that the rules favor 15k NS nations without navies or nukes and still use cold war technology?

[Canaris]

[quote name='Sargun' date='01 March 2010 - 06:48 PM' timestamp='1267487507' post='2210446']
You're saying that the rules favor 15k NS nations without navies or nukes and still use cold war technology?
[/quote]

You're still hung up on size and strength for some reason. People don't remain small on purpose. They go into this kind of thing looking to grow. Even I'm guilty of that. Doesn't change anything. Everyone has their glorious vision of a setting that is ideal in their own eyes.