bakamitai Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I approve of this thread for making me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='bakamitai' date='04 February 2010 - 02:36 AM' timestamp='1265265387' post='2158420'] I approve of this thread for making me [/quote] And I approve of you coming by to a little in our thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorrodders Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Ahh, this thread makes great reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Holmes IIi Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 We'll fight anybody. Welcome to Zenith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zangmonkey Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 As I stated in the OG thread, I admire willingness to enter voluntarily when you are helping friends or doing what you think is right. Perhaps most of Zenith fits into this qualification but it's common knowledge that DK has been looking for a reason to attack GRE. Nonetheless, I wish you all well and look forward to sharing my happiness brigades and dream rockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wenwillthisend Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Well DK, you got the war you seeked with the alliance you dislike. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empress Theodora Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 If you must know DK had absolutely nothing to do with Gremlins being chosen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike717 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='Empress Theodora' date='04 February 2010 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1265310923' post='2159154'] If you must know DK had absolutely nothing to do with Gremlins being chosen. [/quote] This. Frankly, DK hasn't been "in charge" at Zenith for quite some time, so honestly it isn't even close to being a motivation for this war. On DK's personal front, there may be some dislike there, but I think thats true of every alliance member out there. Also, don't think you are so special, there are several alliances much farther up the list that DK would destroy given the opportunity to destroy one. Zenith was asked by a good friend to help. Zenith helped, as we will always do when a friend asks for help. This has very little to do with Gremlins, and everything to with us helping a trusted ally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='Empress Theodora' date='04 February 2010 - 07:15 PM' timestamp='1265310923' post='2159154'] If you must know DK had absolutely nothing to do with Gremlins being chosen. [/quote] Odd that a Tri from OG would make such a proclomation in regards to who in Zenith had nothing to do with the choice of thier target. You guys really must be very close eh? Can you elaborate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zangmonkey Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='Empress Theodora' date='04 February 2010 - 11:15 AM' timestamp='1265310923' post='2159154'] If you must know DK had absolutely nothing to do with Gremlins being chosen. [/quote] I was not making any such accusation; merely commenting on the known fact that he will enjoy the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='mike717' date='04 February 2010 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1265311644' post='2159168'] This. Frankly, DK hasn't been "in charge" at Zenith for quite some time, so honestly it isn't even close to being a motivation for this war. On DK's personal front, there may be some dislike there, but I think thats true of every alliance member out there. Also, don't think you are so special, there are several alliances much farther up the list that DK would destroy given the opportunity to destroy one. Zenith was asked by a good friend to help. Zenith helped, as we will always do when a friend asks for help. This has very little to do with Gremlins, and everything to with us helping a trusted ally. [/quote] Very little to do with Gramlins? Thats odd considering thats who you declared war on, i'd say it has more then a "little" to do with us. If DK hasnt been in charge for sometime then so be it but lets not try to gloss things over here, we know DK dosent like us one bit as is his right. As far as his list goes Im sure he will get the chance given the offensive nature of the friends who are asking for help, its likely he will get plenty more chances as time goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike717 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='Thorgrum' date='04 February 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1265311712' post='2159170'] Odd that a Tri from OG would make such a proclomation in regards to who in Zenith had nothing to do with the choice of thier target. You guys really must be very close eh? Can you elaborate? [/quote] Zenith did not choose the target. Notice that we entered this war on an oA clause with our ally Old Guard. Old Guard: Hey we're entering this war to defend our ally IRON, and we'd like some help from you guys via the oA clause in our treaty Zenith: ok, we're here to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='mike717' date='04 February 2010 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1265311942' post='2159176'] Zenith did not choose the target. Notice that we entered this war on an oA clause with our ally Old Guard. Old Guard: Hey we're entering this war to defend our ally IRON, and we'd like some help from you guys via the oA clause in our treaty Zenith: ok, we're here to help [/quote] Fine, however I would strongly urge you to choose your own targets going forward particularly when your ally is defending an ally who is an aggressor. It just looks a little better when you buck up and say "yep it was our decision" but to each thier own I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='mike717' date='04 February 2010 - 01:27 PM' timestamp='1265311644' post='2159168'] Also, don't think you are so special, there are several alliances much farther up the list that DK would destroy given the opportunity to destroy one. [/quote] Hi there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike717 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='Thorgrum' date='04 February 2010 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1265311930' post='2159175'] Very little to do with Gramlins? Thats odd considering thats who you declared war on, i'd say it has more then a "little" to do with us. If DK hasnt been in charge for sometime then so be it but lets not try to gloss things over here, we know DK dosent like us one bit as is his right. As far as his list goes Im sure he will get the chance given the offensive nature of the friends who are asking for help, its likely he will get plenty more chances as time goes on. [/quote] perhaps you misunderstood, we're at war with you. So in that way yes, it has to do with you. The reasons we are at war with you have little to do with Gremlins. OG could have asked us to go to war with anyone they were going to fight in defense of IRON, and we would have done so. This war is about our freindship with OG, not any hatred fror Gramlins. I rather like most of you guys. Also, again, all im saying is lots of members of lots of alliances dislike lots of other alliances. I didn't say anyone had a hit list. If you'll notice, Zenith is no position to be going out manufacturing wars against other alliances just because we dont like them. Even if we wanted to, which we don't, it'd be suidcide. We're just a little alliance that is helping a freind where we were asked to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike717 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='Thorgrum' date='04 February 2010 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1265312100' post='2159180'] Fine, however I would strongly urge you to choose your own targets going forward particularly when your ally is defending an ally who is an aggressor. It just looks a little better when you buck up and say "yep it was our decision" but to each thier own I suppose. [/quote] It was our decision to fight, who else's decision would that be? Also we view you as an aggresor, so there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='mike717' date='04 February 2010 - 07:42 PM' timestamp='1265312560' post='2159192'] It was our decision to fight, who else's decision would that be? [/quote] I dont know Mike, since you didnt choose the target yourselves. [quote name='mike717' date='04 February 2010 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1265311942' post='2159176'] Zenith did not choose the target. Notice that we entered this war on an oA clause with our ally Old Guard. [/quote] You also came in on an oA, so does that not mean you opted to follow an allies aggressive decleration? I'm having a horrible day so I might be missing something or my comprehension is lacking but if Gre were the aggressor wouldnt you be coming in after activating the MDP portion of the treaty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike717 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='Thorgrum' date='04 February 2010 - 02:03 PM' timestamp='1265313809' post='2159231'] I dont know Mike, since you didnt choose the target yourselves. You also came in on an oA, so does that not mean you opted to follow an allies aggressive decleration? I'm having a horrible day so I might be missing something or my comprehension is lacking but if Gre were the aggressor wouldnt you be coming in after activating the MDP portion of the treaty? [/quote] As far as us viewing you as an aggressor, your aggressive action against IRON started the chain of events that drew Old Guard and Zenith into this war, therefore we view you as the aggressor. That said, over the last few days there has certainly shown a difference of opinion as to what an aggressor is, so i'm not here to argue that. You have your opinion and i have mine. As for the your target choice comments, please forgive me (i mean this literally, as i a truly don't understand where you are coming from with your criticism, but i am trying to), but i don't understand why you are so upset (if you are even upset) about this "target choice". If Old Guard came to us and said "we will be going to war against Gremlins via our defense treaty with IRON, would you help us via our treaty?" is it then appropriate to say "sure but we're going to attack a target of our choosing?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulmar Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) [quote name='mike717' date='04 February 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1265314512' post='2159253'] As far as us viewing you as an aggressor, your aggressive action against IRON started the chain of events that drew Old Guard and Zenith into this war, therefore we view you as the aggressor. That said, over the last few days there has certainly shown a difference of opinion as to what an aggressor is, so i'm not here to argue that. You have your opinion and i have mine. As for the your target choice comments, please forgive me (i mean this literally, as i a truly don't understand where you are coming from with your criticism, but i am trying to), but i don't understand why you are so upset (if you are even upset) about this "target choice". If Old Guard came to us and said "we will be going to war against Gremlins via our defense treaty with IRON, would you help us via our treaty?" is it then appropriate to say "sure but we're going to attack a target of our choosing?" [/quote] Pretty much what this man said. Not sure where the idea came from that somehow this was some scheme of ours to attack Gremlins. Here is how it went down: OG: Hey guys, OG is going to come to the defense of IRON with our MDP, we were wondering if you would like to help? Zenith: For sure, we would love to. OG: By the way, we are probably going to attack Gremlins. Zenith: That's cool, lets roll. and ta-da, here we are! Edited February 4, 2010 by Sulmar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Thorgrum' date='04 February 2010 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1265312100' post='2159180'] Fine, however I would strongly urge you to choose your own targets going forward particularly when your ally is defending an ally who is an aggressor. It just looks a little better when you buck up and say "yep it was our decision" but to each thier own I suppose. [/quote] Thorgrum, as Overseer, I was the one that commanded us to engage GRE. This was done after considering the advice from our military planners and our ally. It was a tactical choice and it has nothing to do with any personal feelings on the matter. In consideration of all the targets available, our forces were best applied on GRE. It's that simple. In fact, I never even heard DK mention she didn't like you. What little interaction I've had with GRE has been good, I assure you it is nothing personal. None of us have any intention of seeing you hurt further than what is needed to convince you that we won't stop until you peace out. It's strictly business. Edit: Aftewards, I hope we can regale each other with war stories over some stout drinks. Edited February 4, 2010 by Kzoppistan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='mike717' date='04 February 2010 - 08:15 PM' timestamp='1265314512' post='2159253'] As far as us viewing you as an aggressor, your aggressive action against IRON started the chain of events that drew Old Guard and Zenith into this war, therefore we view you as the aggressor. That said, over the last few days there has certainly shown a difference of opinion as to what an aggressor is, so i'm not here to argue that. You have your opinion and i have mine. As for the your target choice comments, please forgive me (i mean this literally, as i a truly don't understand where you are coming from with your criticism, but i am trying to), but i don't understand why you are so upset (if you are even upset) about this "target choice". If Old Guard came to us and said "we will be going to war against Gremlins via our defense treaty with IRON, would you help us via our treaty?" is it then appropriate to say "sure but we're going to attack a target of our choosing?" [/quote] I'm not upset at all, this is a friendly chat with an opponnent. The target choice comments were based on the fact you said "Zenith didnt choose the target" I found that odd, particularly after a Tri of OG pretty much confirmed it as well. However I respect that you guys run your affairs how ever you see fit, there isnt one person in Gramlins who is upset by the decision to put Zenith and OG on us, who ever made it. In terms of aggressive or defensive, you cited the reason for zenith coming in was the activiaton of the oA clause in your treaty with OG, that would make you the aggressor and OG (as its an optional aggression clause) so you pretty much clarified what we already knew, I just wanted to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Good hunting Zenith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='Kzoppistan' date='04 February 2010 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1265315203' post='2159275'] Thorgrum, as Overseer, I was the one that commanded us to engage GRE. This was done after considering the advice from our military planners and our ally. It was a tactical choice and it has nothing to do with any personal feelings on the matter. In consideration of all the targets available, our forces were best applied on GRE. It's that simple. In fact, I never even heard DK mention she didn't like you. What little interaction I've had with GRE has been good, I assure you it is nothing personal. None of us have any intention of seeing you hurt further than what is needed to convince you that we won't stop until you peace out. It's strictly business. [/quote] For the record, if it was personal I am okay with that. We have been civil so far in this discourse this was a good way to continue to engage one another without it turning into the classic flame war and "no u" back and forths. I fought Zenith when I was in Argent during Karma I have no beef with you guys other then Sulmar's being friendly and not allowing me to demonize him at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 [quote name='Thorgrum' date='04 February 2010 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1265315476' post='2159286']...I have no beef with you guys other then Sulmar's being friendly and not allowing me to demonize him at the time. [/quote] I know, right? He does that to me too. How can you have a desperate grasping for power between two rivals when he's always making me like him? Grrrr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggdrazil Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 During a recent insurrection in the Nation of Ginginugaap. The insurgents used a tactic they called "grabbing the belt" where they made such close contact with my forces that we could not use our big stick(air and art).Throughout Ginginugap's military establishment the consensus was this was cowardly.It took a purge of the upper tier of my military to correct this stupid notion, that an enemy would fight to your strength. Only a fool would not use tactics that gave them whatever advantage could be arranged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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