The Coincidence Coalition

[rsoxbronco1]

Next time try asking before declaring war. How's that sound?

In case you missed it:

Flexible applies to our negotiations to end this war. I would agree that we were inflexible at the start.

Tonight's negotiations reinforced a lot of bad impressions and further convinced me that diplomatic contact before the war would have been rather fruitless. If I could go back and change certain things I likely would, but I question whether the outcome would have changed in any meaningful way. You don't have to feel that way and neither does anyone else. I'm not saying you do. All I'm saying is that I had expectations about how diplomacy would go with TPF and all the worst aspects of those expectations were confirmed when they walked out after getting what they wanted.

Next time TPF should try waiting for an answer to their question. How's that sound?

[TehChron]

Next time TPF should try waiting for an answer to their question. How's that sound?

Or try diplomatic channels before attacking.

I mean, I know common sense isn't your guys' strong suit, but c'mon...

We didn't go to TPF and say "oh hi if you want to stop here's white peace."

We had lengthy discussions and told us that white peace with no stipulations was the only thing they'd accept at the very tail end of those discussions. They decided they just didn't want to stick around to see our answer.

If I knew reinforcements were incoming, I'd say "$%&@ you", too.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Chron

[PrideAssassin]

Which is exactly what we agreed to before TPF walked out.

No admission of anything.

No reps.

Just a "we recognize this war to be over"

/s/

That's what they walked out on.

Why on Bob would they pay you reps, when you dogpiled them on a bogus CB?

[juslen]

There was a 2 hour discussion tonight starting around 10:30 PM EST. 15 minutes in we all got the impression that TPF was stonewalling and they proved it when they told us the only thing they would accept was full white peace with 8 minutes to go before the DoWs. In the interest of preventing a spread of the war, Rok, GOD, \m/, and Athens all decided "yes".

Unfortunately, after 2 hours of discussion, they literally could not wait 4 minutes for Athens to discuss it internally after I asked them to "Hold". We check back after the usual private chan discussion only to see that TPF had decided to leave after Rok, GOD, and \m/ had all agreed to white peace with Athens about to post our agreement too.

That is the exact impression I got from the logs which were posted.

EDIT: My bad, forgot Desperado was in TPF.

They changed their minds when they had people at their backs. I would have too.

They already knew that they would have people at their back perhaps not then and there. But their reaction seems to indicate that they were stalling.. waiting for the DOW's to start flooding in. And when they did.. OOPS.. talks were all of a sudden going nowhere.

At this point its just speculation, but from what we do know and what we have seen it appears there is reason for concern or further investigation.

So now we wait..

[TehChron]

Why on Bob would they pay you reps, when you dogpiled them on a bogus CB?

Because some people believe their own propaganda. It's hard to imagine, I know, but some folks just have that much of a disconnect from reality.

They already knew that they would have people at their back perhaps not then and there. But their reaction seems to indicate that they were stalling.. waiting for the DOW's to start flooding in. And when they did.. OOPS.. talks were all of a sudden going nowhere.

At this point its just speculation, but from what we do know and what we have seen it appears there is reason for concern or further investigation.

So now we wait..

Wanting retaliation against their attackers with 5:1 odds, and willing to use underhanded tactics to stall for time, even knowing it wasn't getting them anywhere?

How terrible!

Edited January 2, 2010 by Chron

[silentkiller]

I see all these claims of stalling, what exactly would they have achieved by stalling?

Edited January 2, 2010 by silentkiller

[rsoxbronco1]

Or try diplomatic channels before attacking.

Either there's something wrong with my writing or there's something wrong with your reading. I think it's you.

If I knew reinforcements were incoming, I'd say "$%&@ you", too.

They've known reinforcements were coming since day 1. We've known we have our reinforcements since day 1. If they wanted to say "$%&@ you" I think they'd have said it a bit earlier than now.

[Van Hoo III]

I see all these claims of stalling, what exactly would they have achieved by stalling?

A larger war, obviously.

[rsoxbronco1]

Why on Bob would they pay you reps, when you dogpiled them on a bogus CB?

I was illustrating that the peace offered was white. Nothing more, nothing less.

You'll find the bogus CB argument elsewhere.

[TehChron]

Either there's something wrong with my writing or there's something wrong with your reading. I think it's you.

With reasoning skills like yours, I'd blame everyone else, too.

They've known reinforcements were coming since day 1. We've known we have our reinforcements since day 1. If they wanted to say "$%&@ you" I think they'd have said it a bit earlier than now.

Perhaps they've been saying it all along, and you just didn't get it?

[silentkiller]

A larger war, obviously.

But they knew their allies were coming in a few days anyway. I must not be seeing something.

Edit: By the looks of it TPF does want a larger war, otherwise they would have accepted the white peace.

Edited January 2, 2010 by silentkiller

[Van Hoo III]

If I knew reinforcements were incoming, I'd say "$%&@ you", too.

Reinforcements have been coming all along. Everyone has always known that.

[Hayzell]

We didn't go to TPF and say "oh hi if you want to stop here's white peace."

We had lengthy discussions and told us that white peace with no stipulations was the only thing they'd accept at the very tail end of those discussions. They decided they just didn't want to stick around to see our answer.

At that point in time how could they? With four minutes left until declarations it would be too late to call off the 17 alliances involved so far. If there was a genuine desire to give white peace, it could have been done in negotiations prior to today, or done at the very beginning of today's negotiations. That you waited until the very last minute reads to me as you wanting to be able to say you offered it for PR purposes, but really you knew it would be too late.

It is also questionable why there was such a sudden change of heart. A few days ago your alliance refused to even communicate with TPF for negotiations, and this is after engaging in a war without attempting diplomacy first. And now you want to call out CC for doing what you have been begging them to, entering the conflict?

[Van Hoo III]

But they knew their allies were coming in a few days anyway. I must not be seeing something.

Yes, but they knew the date and time this time around. Agreeing to white peace two hours earlier would have meant we all pack up our nukes and go home.

[TehChron]

Reinforcements have been coming all along. Everyone has always known that.

Then perhaps they were speaking in a foreign dialect? Diplomacy doesn't seem your guys' strong suit, based on how things have occurred, so the message may have been lost in translation. That happens sometimes, a loss of certain nuances when translating from a different language.

[MadScotII]

They already knew that they would have people at their back perhaps not then and there. But their reaction seems to indicate that they were stalling.. waiting for the DOW's to start flooding in. And when they did.. OOPS.. talks were all of a sudden going nowhere.

At this point its just speculation, but from what we do know and what we have seen it appears there is reason for concern or further investigation.

So now we wait..

I see nothing wrong with that stance either.

The only thing I see is Athens being stupid enough going into Peace Talks without knowing what was and wasn't acceptable. Why in gods name would you go into peace talks without a minimum and maximum allowance. If you would have accepted White Peace then, by god you should have known before you went into the peace talks. You shouldn't have to start peace talks and then run off half way through to get permission to accept a term.

Edited January 2, 2010 by MadScotsman

[Van Hoo III]

It is also questionable why there was such a sudden change of heart. A few days ago your alliance refused to even communicate with TPF for negotiations, and this is after engaging in a war without attempting diplomacy first. And now you want to call out CC for doing what you have been begging them to, entering the conflict?

Incorrect. The only time we were not willing to discuss peace was the night of the attack. "A few days ago" we actually did gather and try to work something out.

[rsoxbronco1]

With reasoning skills like yours, I'd blame everyone else, too.

Commenting on your woeful reading comprehension =/= blaming you

Perhaps they've been saying it all along, and you just didn't get it?

Dunno, they were pretty clear about the white peace thing...maybe you're right and that was just their way of saying lol.

[PrideAssassin]

White Peace was not offered to TPF.

Next.

[TehChron]

Commenting on your woeful reading comprehension =/= blaming you

Dunno, they were pretty clear about the white peace thing...maybe you're right and that was just their way of saying lol.

Yeah, it seems kind of absurd they'd be suing for white peace knowing reinforcements were on the way, I mean, there is a reason why they have those adorable little sigs with the "Roll the Hard Six" quote. I suppose the one with poor reading comprehension is not myself, if you had such difficulty figuring that one out.

[crazyisraelie]

Why is it that people always argue the validity of a war?

It's going to happen whether you argue it or not. Just accept it and launch your nukes.

[Van Hoo III]

Then perhaps they were speaking in a foreign dialect? Diplomacy doesn't seem your guys' strong suit, based on how things have occurred, so the message may have been lost in translation. That happens sometimes, a loss of certain nuances when translating from a different language.

Either I am all argued out or I'm numb from the sheer volume of bad forum posters (not directed at you), but I'm not even being snarky or snide with you, Chron. I'm just pointing out that everyone has always known that TPF's allies may attack any night. There was no 'OH NO, TPF HAS ALLIES!" moment all of the sudden.

Edit: Sorry Chron, that didn't initially come out right.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Van Hoo III

[rsoxbronco1]

At that point in time how could they? With four minutes left until declarations it would be too late to call off the 17 alliances involved so far. If there was a genuine desire to give white peace, it could have been done in negotiations prior to today, or done at the very beginning of today's negotiations. That you waited until the very last minute reads to me as you wanting to be able to say you offered it for PR purposes, but really you knew it would be too late.

It is also questionable why there was such a sudden change of heart. A few days ago your alliance refused to even communicate with TPF for negotiations, and this is after engaging in a war without attempting diplomacy first. And now you want to call out CC for doing what you have been begging them to, entering the conflict?

You seem to have the timeline for negotiations wrong. We kept making various offers all night; lowering our requests each time. It was only at the end that they told us they only peace they would accept was straight white peace. The people negotiating obviously didn't really care or they wouldn't have waited till the last minute.

Basically, if they had said "total white peace or nothing" we could have talked in back rooms and come to a private agreement on acceptance or rejection while continuing to negotiate. At least we'd have a yes or no answer before the clock ran out.

[Tulafaras]

White Peace was not offered to TPF.

Next.

wrong.

Next.

[rsoxbronco1]

Yeah, it seems kind of absurd they'd be suing for white peace knowing reinforcements were on the way, I mean, there is a reason why they have those adorable little sigs with the "Roll the Hard Six" quote. I suppose the one with poor reading comprehension is not myself, if you had such difficulty figuring that one out.

I don't care that they sued for white peace. If I was in there spot I'd have done the same.

What I wouldn't have done was run out the door saying 'lalalalalalalala' when my opponent agreed to my demands.