Countdown to Athens Rep Payment

[JBone]

I believe they responded to the initial enquiry in the first few pages. I don't see that as hiding. It is not their fault that the peanut gallery ignored it and kept repeating their mantra.

Agreed.

I was referring more to the agreement that has been reached, but as you pointed out that could be withheld for amusement sake, which I completely understand.

[Iotupa]

I believe the delay was due to no total sum being agreed which is perfectly logical. Now that sum has been agreed I would hope Athens would move quickly to pay it off.

I may be mistaken, but I believe that is what he was referring to. Athens has now said an agreement has been reached but has yet to begin sending the aid.

[Tygaland]

All I can say to this is: No, it absolutely was not. It had nothing to do with them being zero. I simply raised the possibility of them being zero. my 'horror' at this thread was simply the conduct in, which it seems you're just adding to.

And I pointed out how your "possibility" was nonsense.

I was under the impression that this was a place for discussion. If all of us ignored what didn't apply to us, nothing would ever happen here. Are you saying you only post in topics directly related to you? Because, funny, I don't see this related to you in any way at all. You're simply doing exactly what I'm doing, and arguing the other side of what I am.

Someday you will stick to a topic rather than making another one up when cornered in an argument. You said you did not care what Athens did which is why I asked why you would post in the manner you have and why you'd be so horrified by what has played out in this discussion. There seems to be some sort of logical disconnect there.

And I never saw the post where hypothetical are illegal. What a big bad person I am. I didn't depart from my original argument at all, you simply misinterpreted what my argument was even about. That is not my fault.

Again, more histrionics devoid of a point. Hypotheticals are fine up to the point where they are shown to irrelevant nonsense. I pointed out how your hypothetical was nonsense and you conceded as much so I'm not sure why you are still arguing about it.

[rsoxbronco1]

But the thing is Athens was quite happy to use this means (publicity) to gain PR points for themselves with all kinds of threads about apologies and changes to raiding policies etc. The fact that it took this long to reach an agreement is rediculus. Bilrow managed to get replies from several KoNi members within a day or two?? including a member of Gov who figured they weren't getting anything. Seems to me that even just rtrading messages they could have reached an agreement a lot faster than this, unless they really didn't want to. Seems funny that an agreement was reached after this was pointed out by Bilrow. And I find it interesting that Athens quickly went back to their old selves.

In any case, I wonder how much longer it will take the aid to start flowing, given that reason for it not starting already was because no figure had been released.

Yeah, we gained PR by raiding a 40 man AA because we said sorry. That makes sense.

[Tygaland]

I may be mistaken, but I believe that is what he was referring to. Athens has now said an agreement has been reached but has yet to begin sending the aid.

Perhaps I'm being overly pedantic but he said released, not agreed. It is an important distinction though.

[Haflinger]

Yeah, we gained PR by raiding a 40 man AA because we said sorry. That makes sense.

It might make more sense than the idea that Bilrow created this thread to make people like the NPO. (Which, well, neither idea makes any sense at all, I think.)

Gah, why does everything have to be about PR?

[Kilkenny]

I may be mistaken, but I believe that is what he was referring to. Athens has now said an agreement has been reached but has yet to begin sending the aid.

Yes, that was what I was refering to. Now that an amount has been agreed to, now how long till aid starts flowing??

Clarity FTW!!

I'm not sure they were happy to do what you say publicly but were forced to due to the public reaction to the raid on KoN! I seriously doubt anyone would perceive those events as a PR win for Athens nor have I seen Athens claim any PR win. What the hold up was in agreeing a figure was, I have no idea. All I do know is that one has now been agreed and Athens will get on with paying whatever that sum is.

They may not have been happy to do it, and juding by some of their comments to this questioning definitly not. But the mindless hailing and good job Athens and all that from the apology and other postings, they did benifit from a boost to their PR stock. In fact if it weren't for some poor showings here they would be riding high (or even quick work and flowing aid packages). My whole point was they didn't mind going public when it benefited them, but seem to want to hide everything else, something that was supposedly done away with in the Karma war.

[Tygaland]

It might make more sense than the idea that Bilrow created this thread to make people like the NPO. (Which, well, neither idea makes any sense at all, I think.)

Did anyone actually claim that?

[Shurukian]

And I pointed out how your "possibility" was nonsense.

Someday you will stick to a topic rather than making another one up when cornered in an argument. You said you did not care what Athens did which is why I asked why you would post in the manner you have and why you'd be so horrified by what has played out in this discussion. There seems to be some sort of logical disconnect there.

Again, more histrionics devoid of a point. Hypotheticals are fine up to the point where they are shown to irrelevant nonsense. I pointed out how your hypothetical was nonsense and you conceded as much so I'm not sure why you are still arguing about it.

Excuse me? Cornered in an argument? How in the world was I cornered? You asked me what would be a situation in which there were no reps which I would be upset with, if KoN had agreed. I responded to your question. You took it completely out of context by assuming that I was upset with Athen's actions, rather than how ridiculous this perpetuated thread has been. And hypotheticals as the the amount is all there is right now, as one hasn't been announced. Even thinking there is an amount is hypothetical, as one hasn't been presented. Show me how my point is more of 'irrelevant nonsense' than yours.

Arguing with you is just tiresome.

[rsoxbronco1]

It might make more sense than the idea that Bilrow created this thread to make people like the NPO. (Which, well, neither idea makes any sense at all, I think.)

Gah, why does everything have to be about PR?

Cybernations: A Double Standards Public Relations Game.

[Iotupa]

Perhaps I'm being overly pedantic but he said released, not agreed. It is an important distinction though.

I'm not sure what releasing to the public the reparations total has to do with Athens ability to start sending their reparations. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point here.

[Tygaland]

They may not have been happy to do it, and juding by some of their comments to this questioning definitly not. But the mindless hailing and good job Athens and all that from the apology and other postings, they did benifit from a boost to their PR stock. In fact if it weren't for some poor showings here they would be riding high (or even quick work and flowing aid packages). My whole point was they didn't mind going public when it benefited them, but seem to want to hide everything else, something that was supposedly done away with in the Karma war.

I think people can appreciate an apology without the group apologising winning a PR boost. A shoplifter who goes back to the shop, confesses and returns the merchandise may get some appreciation for their change of heart but I'd hardly say it is a PR boost for the person. More an awkward and embarrassing process of righting a wrong as best they could.

I can't remember, was it Athens that brought the raid on KoN! public? If not then you can hardly claim Athens took this public for a PR win.

[Tygaland]

I'm not sure what releasing to the public the reparations total has to do with Athens ability to start sending their reparations. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point here.

I wasn't the one claiming it did. Kilkenny did, re-read his initial post. My response to him was clarifying it was an agreement on the reps sum, not the release of the figure that was required before payment could commence.

[Haflinger]

I can't remember, was it Athens that brought the raid on KoN! public? If not then you can hardly claim Athens took this public for a PR win.

No, it was Penkala.

[Iotupa]

I wasn't the one claiming it did. Kilkenny did, re-read his initial post. My response to him was clarifying it was an agreement on the reps sum, not the release of the figure that was required before payment could commence.

OK, it appears you did mean what I thought you meant. What does releasing the figure have to do with Athens internal ability to begin sending the reparations? Surely they've told themselves what they negotiated with the Knights of Ni!?

Typing Knights of Ni! at the end of a question makes one appear far more excited about the question than one truly is.

[lakerzz8]

It might make more sense than the idea that Bilrow created this thread to make people like the NPO. (Which, well, neither idea makes any sense at all, I think.)

Gah, why does everything have to be about PR?

I believe the idea was that Bilrow made this thread to damage Athens' PR, not make people like the NPO. That certainly makes sense if you read the way he worded the OP and has carried himself throughout the thread.

[Kilkenny]

I think people can appreciate an apology without the group apologising winning a PR boost. A shoplifter who goes back to the shop, confesses and returns the merchandise may get some appreciation for their change of heart but I'd hardly say it is a PR boost for the person. More an awkward and embarrassing process of righting a wrong as best they could.

I can't remember, was it Athens that brought the raid on KoN! public? If not then you can hardly claim Athens took this public for a PR win.

It started out as an embarassment with the raid coming out and then having to comeout with the apologies and the changing of Athens policy. But with the apologies and the changes there was a great surge of good will towards Athens and a love fest for them. while sceptical, was willing to give them a chance to demonstrate it was a true change. Nothing I have seen in this thread suggested it was anything more than a temporary change to garner goodwill.

And I personnally don't care if they release the amount or not, was not my point. My whole point was now that a figure has been agreed to when will it go out, as the given reason that no aid had been sent was that no figure had been agreed to.

Edit: ok, went bacvk and re-read what I actually typed, which did not match what I meant, edited original statement to reflect that. Hopefully that will clear up confusion. //OOC apple vodka affects ones mind finger coordination OOC//

Edited December 6, 2009 by Kilkenny

[Jacques Cousteau]

It started out as an embarassment with the raid coming out and then having to comeout with the apologies and the changing of Athens policy. But with the apologies and the changes there was a great surge of good will towards Athens and a love fest for them. while sceptical, was willing to give them a chance to demonstrate it was a true change. Nothing I have seen in this thread suggested it was anything more than a temporary change to garner goodwill.

And I personnally don't care if they release the amount or not, was not my point. My whole point was now that a figure has been agreed to when will it go out, as the given reason that no aid had been sent was that no figure had been agreed to.

You are completely clueless if you truly believe Athens received good will after its policy change. That's asinine.

[Tygaland]

Excuse me? Cornered in an argument? How in the world was I cornered? You asked me what would be a situation in which there were no reps which I would be upset with, if KoN had agreed. I responded to your question. You took it completely out of context by assuming that I was upset with Athen's actions, rather than how ridiculous this perpetuated thread has been. And hypotheticals as the the amount is all there is right now, as one hasn't been announced. Even thinking there is an amount is hypothetical, as one hasn't been presented. Show me how my point is more of 'irrelevant nonsense' than yours.

Arguing with you is just tiresome.

Your whole premise was that Athens could get away with a zero reps sum. Seeing as Athens and KoN! had already agreed on a sum prior to you posting then the only way zero reps would come about was if KoN! agreed to it. Hence I asked you why you'd be so upset by zero reps taking that into account. You said you'd accept that decision from KoN! and by doing that your hypothetical became irrelevant.

After that you lashed out at me with wild claims about me wanting unquestioning praise of Athens and me wanting people who are not involved in an issue not to post. Both of which were false and nothing more than hyperbole.

[Shurukian]

Your whole premise was that Athens could get away with a zero reps sum. Seeing as Athens and KoN! had already agreed on a sum prior to you posting then the only way zero reps would come about was if KoN! agreed to it. Hence I asked you why you'd be so upset by zero reps taking that into account. You said you'd accept that decision from KoN! and by doing that your hypothetical became irrelevant.

After that you lashed out at me with wild claims about me wanting unquestioning praise of Athens and me wanting people who are not involved in an issue not to post. Both of which were false and nothing more than hyperbole.

A sum does not mean it is a positive sum. We've been over this. Zero is still a figure.

And I did not lash out at you. It was a response to your claim that since I was uninvolved, I should not post. By that comment, only involved parties could post. Since KoN is silent, that would leave only Athens and their allies, therefore being a thread of support.

[Tygaland]

OK, it appears you did mean what I thought you meant. What does releasing the figure have to do with Athens internal ability to begin sending the reparations? Surely they've told themselves what they negotiated with the Knights of Ni!?

Typing Knights of Ni! at the end of a question makes one appear far more excited about the question than one truly is.

I don't think you do understand at all and I'm thinking you are doing so deliberately as a means to annoy. Go back and read what Kilkenny posted and what I then posted and get back to me. Actually, you'll probably be needing to get back to Kilkenny as you are asking me to support his words which I corrected in my response to him.

[Kilkenny]

You are completely clueless if you truly believe Athens received good will after its policy change. That's asinine.

Please, I read the threads, they received so much love and congrats etc that you would have thought they OOC won the game OOC. They even had people who didn't like them very much before coming out saying they now respected and liked Athens. They gained from it, and had tehy continued to handle it well, would still be riding the wave.

note: that is what most of the messages put out by alliances are, PR projects. That is just the way it is, and Athens played it well with those 2 announcements, but then fumbled the ball and lost all the ground they gained.

[Kilkenny]

But the thing is Athens was quite happy to use this means (publicity) to gain PR points for themselves with all kinds of threads about apologies and changes to raiding policies etc. The fact that it took this long to reach an agreement is rediculus. Bilrow managed to get replies from several KoNi members within a day or two?? including a member of Gov who figured they weren't getting anything. Seems to me that even just rtrading messages they could have reached an agreement a lot faster than this, unless they really didn't want to. Seems funny that an agreement was reached after this was pointed out by Bilrow. And I find it interesting that Athens quickly went back to their old selves.

In any case, I wonder how much longer it will take the aid to start flowing, given that reason for it not starting already was because no figure had been released agreed to.

edit: changed what I said to what I meant.

Ok, wanted to quote this and bring it back to notice. I have corrected it to show what I meant to say, and what I was defending saying, vs what I actually said and what Tygra was commenting on.

I blame it all on the vodka,

[rsoxbronco1]

Please, I read the threads, they received so much love and congrats etc that you would have thought they OOC won the game OOC. They even had people who didn't like them very much before coming out saying they now respected and liked Athens. They gained from it, and had tehy continued to handle it well, would still be riding the wave.

note: that is what most of the messages put out by alliances are, PR projects. That is just the way it is, and Athens played it well with those 2 announcements, but then fumbled the ball and lost all the ground they gained.

This was a serious situation and mistake on our part I resent your portrayal of our raid as a game. :colbert:

[Kilkenny]

This was a serious situation and mistake on our part I resent your portrayal of our raid as a game. :colbert:

My reference was to the apology and policy change threads and the comments and such that went on in them. That said, the raid was portayed by your own alliance as a game to them and for the lulz.