Declaration of War

[Enrage]

My official response:

Edited December 1, 2009 by Enrage

[Rebel Virginia]

Waiting for NSO to incite the Moldavi Doctrine on WF.

You know, NSO just won't come to the aid of any alliance. If they alliance deserves what they are getting then so be it, however, if the NSO sees fit to enter the war on behalf of one alliance we will. I fail to see why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp.

[Fadeev]

We were attacked. We defended ourselves.

We were 100% behind just attacking those that attacked WorldFed, and we considered this closed, until we got new information stating that was behind this.

Well, the war screen shows clearly, that a 5 page attack was planned quite a long time.

And maybe you can reveal the source you rely on?

[Trinite]

They've already stated that the rogue/ghost/whatever is their source. Not really a reliable source, and that screen shot definitely needs some context, but I don't really like KDII, and watching VE and NPO sing campfire songs warms my heart, so whatever.

@Doc: It's a two week no nuke war with white peace at the end of the rainbow. Wars like this never would have been possible in the old times. You're moral outrage could be better used elsewhere.

[Fadeev]

They've already stated that the rogue/ghost/whatever is their source. Not really a reliable source, and that screen shot definitely needs some context, but I don't really like KDII, and watching VE and NPO sing campfire songs warms my heart, so whatever.

@Doc: It's a two week no nuke war with white peace at the end of the rainbow. Wars like this never would have been possible in the old times. You're moral outrage could be better used elsewhere.

From words of HoP it seemed that they have more than just a untrustworthy screen shot.

[Starcraftmazter]

1) They were pretty large nations (relative to us as they were all in the 8-10k NS range)... and they all hit our tech sellers.

2) We had no problems with leaving it be. KD told us that we could attack those who attacked us, and we were fine with that. But later we were told that the war was his planning, not someone else, as an attempt to gain PR.

3) He removed the MoI AFTER the attacks. Ergo, he was a govt. member of UED at the time of the attack.

1. Relevance?

2. I don't see how this gains him PR at all. That is the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

3. So let me get this straight.

- Gov member does something wrong

- Leader recognises this, and removes the gov member as punishment

I'm sorry, am I missing something here? Because this seems like a very good course of action to me. If it was possible to see problematic members with futuristic foresight, then there would never be any political incidents at all.

Can I also point out how ridiculously easy it is to fake a message as seen in the OP. Unless UED confirms it to be true, it is nothing more than heresay - and heresay is not and adequate reason for war in my opinion.

Furthermore, I would like to know if WF first approached UED with this evidence and their other allegations and try and work out the issue diplomatically.

You know, NSO just won't come to the aid of any alliance. If it will be a very easy curbstomp where we can get lots of tech, not risk anyone counter-attacking us and get no bad PR, we will do it - otherwise, no.

Fixed.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Starcraftmazter

[Rebel Virginia]

Fixed.

You really do love your fantasy world don't you? Truth be told NSO was prepared to go to war against Athens for their attack on Knights of Ni. But with the war resolved so quickly, we never got the chance. And yes, we were aware we would have gotten rolled, but that did not matter Just keep in mind that the NSO does not wage war willy nilly. If some alliance like UED and some leader like KDII makes mistakes, such as ordering an attack on an alliance protected by a much larger alliance for no apparent reason, the NSO will not support them just because they are outgunned. I have no idea why I am wasting my time on you though. You just like to attack us regardless of the situation. Some sort of grudge, eh?

[Anthony]

Fixed.

Hop off our balls, please.

[Fadeev]

You really do love your fantasy world don't you? Truth be told NSO was prepared to go to war against Athens for their attack on Knights of Ni. But with the war resolved so quickly, we never got the chance. And yes, we were aware we would have gotten rolled, but that did not matter Just keep in mind that the NSO does not wage war willy nilly. If some alliance like UED and some leader like KDII makes mistakes, such as ordering an attack on an alliance protected by a much larger alliance for no apparent reason, the NSO will not support them just because they are outgunned. I have no idea why I am wasting my time on you though. You just like to attack us regardless of the situation. Some sort of grudge, eh?

The truth from your lips sound always so sweet. meh

[Rebel Virginia]

The truth from your lips sound always so sweet. meh

It is a well known fact that I value honesty as a virtue above all else, so rest assured my friend, I simply cannot tell a lie.

[Starcraftmazter]

You really do love your fantasy world don't you? Truth be told NSO was prepared to go to war against Athens for their attack on Knights of Ni. But with the war resolved so quickly, we never got the chance. And yes, we were aware we would have gotten rolled, but that did not matter

Don't make me laugh - your actions speak louder than your words. Until something like what you describe actually eventuates, I will not cease criticism of that sham of a doctrine of yours.

Just keep in mind that the NSO does not wage war willy nilly.

This coming from an alliance which has already waged two very silly willy unjust wars...is very hypocritical.

If some alliance like UED and some leader like KDII makes mistakes, such as ordering an attack on an alliance protected by a much larger alliance for no apparent reason, the NSO will not support them just because they are outgunned. I have no idea why I am wasting my time on you though. You just like to attack us regardless of the situation. Some sort of grudge, eh?

There is no grudge, I am just pointing out the facts. You claim that KDII ordered the attack - but I am yet to see any conclusive evidence of this. I am shocked and appalled that you (as well as many others) jump to conclusions so hastily instead of actually investigating the issue. I see this as reminiscent of the old days when NPO would curb-stomp smaller alliances for no real reason, and everyone would jump to support them for PR's sake.

As I mentioned earlier, I would like to hear UED's side of this as I strongly suspect that not all here is as it seems. It makes no sense to me why KDII would do anything that is alleged of him - and if he in fact did not, then I do not see UED as having done anything wrong, which would make this a rather unjustified war, which should mean that NSO helps them on account of the Moldavi doctrine.

[Fadeev]

It is a well known fact that I value honesty as a virtue above all else, so rest assured my friend, I simply cannot tell a lie.

Your history has proven you wrong already, so don't bother to explain - it wont come through.

[Hymenbreach]

Anything can and will be used as a cb. Who cares if the world doesn't agree?

[Fadeev]

Anything can and will be used as a cb. Who cares if the world doesn't agree?

Orly? This statement is something new in world politcs! Is this a official policy of Quantum?

[Starcraftmazter]

Anything can and will be used as a cb. Who cares if the world doesn't agree?

A lot of people cared very much not too long ago - now let's hope it was not selective, and that such moral upstanding continues.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Starcraftmazter

[Rebel Virginia]

Don't make me laugh - your actions speak louder than your words. Until something like what you describe actually eventuates, I will not cease criticism of that sham of a doctrine of yours.

Well, you do realize that your own alliance does have the very same doctrine, I find this rather funny. Unless of course you do not believe your alliance has the sovereign right to involve itself in wars that it sees fit. If that is not the case then, can I expect to see your alliance supporting UED?

This coming from an alliance which has already waged two very silly willy unjust wars...is very hypocritical.

I'll assume for a second that you are not talking about the Karma War. In that case, one alliance spies on us, and the other has government members attack us. Is either a completely unreasonable casus belli, and is white peace after a few days a completely unreasonable ending?

There is no grudge, I am just pointing out the facts. You claim that KDII ordered the attack - but I am yet to see any conclusive evidence of this. I am shocked and appalled that you (as well as many others) jump to conclusions so hastily instead of actually investigating the issue. I see this as reminiscent of the old days when NPO would curb-stomp smaller alliances for no real reason, and everyone would jump to support them for PR's sake.

Pardon me, but I don't see the NSO supporting anything. We have made no official statement on this war. In fact, we are quite indifferent to it and will remain so unless our Emperor makes a statement to the contrary. I am merely expressing my personal views that the UED needs a good wake up call. Nothing unreasonable with that, no?

As I mentioned earlier, I would like to hear UED's side of this as I strongly suspect that not all here is as it seems. It makes no sense to me why KDII would do anything that is alleged of him - and if he in fact did not, then I do not see UED as having done anything wrong, which would make this a rather unjustified war, which should mean that NSO helps them on account of the Moldavi doctrine.

Evidence shows that KDII did order his members to attack WF, or so that I can see. Furthermore, this is irrelevant. NSO will enter the war if it sees fit. We are not moralists, make no mistake. We will enter a war if it benefits us to do so, whether on the winning side or the losing side. So please, do tell us what stake we have in this and I will relay it to my superiors. Maybe then we will consider entering this rather silly conflict that seems to have no bearing on us whatsoever.

Just a heads up, but amusing your sorry excuse for an alliance is not a reason we'd consider joining.

[Ellis]

. I see this as reminiscent of the old days when NPO would curb-stomp smaller alliances for no real reason, and everyone would jump to support them for PR's sake.

wF, plainly the new NPO

[Rebel Virginia]

A lot of people cared very much not too long ago - now let's hope it was not selective, and that such moral upstanding continues.

Are you really comparing this to the NPO's actions? They have attacked alliances for much less. Defending oneself is a perfectly valid reason for war, and is what WF is doing. Unless of course you are a big believer in turning the other check.

Also, Fadeev, please provide me with an example of where I, personally, have ever lied.

[Chalaskan]

Am I the only one wondering why a target list would be put on !@#$%* instead of the alliance forums? Oo

[Rebel Virginia]

Am I the only one wondering why a target list would be put on !@#$%* instead of the alliance forums? Oo

Well, have you considered who is leading this alliance? KDII does have a proven track record of less than stellar decisions.

[Uranus]

KD what have you gotten yourself into now?

[Starcraftmazter]

Well, you do realize that your own alliance does have the very same doctrine, I find this rather funny. Unless of course you do not believe your alliance has the sovereign right to involve itself in wars that it sees fit. If that is not the case then, can I expect to see your alliance supporting UED?

I support UED already, were they our allies or friends we would have gone to war, but I do not know anything about them. And do not make this about my alliance, we did not announce the Moldavi doctrine, claiming we are the morale superiority in the world and that we will help everyone and anyone.

I'll assume for a second that you are not talking about the Karma War. In that case, one alliance spies on us, and the other has government members attack us. Is either a completely unreasonable casus belli, and is white peace after a few days a completely unreasonable ending?[/color]

This is not the time nor the place to debate that matter.

Pardon me, but I don't see the NSO supporting anything. We have made no official statement on this war. In fact, we are quite indifferent to it and will remain so unless our Emperor makes a statement to the contrary. I am merely expressing my personal views that the UED needs a good wake up call. Nothing unreasonable with that, no?

I do not believe I said that NSO supports this, I just said this entire discussion (not just NSO, everyone) is very reminiscent of the old days.

Evidence shows that KDII did order his members to attack WF, or so that I can see.

I'm sorry - what? You call that evidence?

Is that evidence too? Your naiveness amuses me.

Furthermore, this is irrelevant. NSO will enter the war if it sees fit. We are not moralists, make no mistake. We will enter a war if it benefits us to do so, whether on the winning side or the losing side. So please, do tell us what stake we have in this and I will relay it to my superiors. Maybe then we will consider entering this rather silly conflict that seems to have no bearing on us whatsoever.

Just a heads up, but amusing your sorry excuse for an alliance is not a reason we'd consider joining.

Thanks for being so honest. Perhaps Moldavi should have written the truth instead of this propaganda nonsense in his doctrine:

The New Sith Order shall retain the option, though not the obligation, to declare war in the defense of any alliance that finds itself the victim of foreign aggression.

The New Sith Order shall retain the option, though not the obligation, to declare war in the support of any alliance that has initiated warfare against another.

But no - it's good that the truth is finally out. In reality, it should be

The New Sith Order shall retain the option, though not the obligation, to declare war in the defense of any alliance whereby such a declaration of war is entirely opportunistic for the New Sith Order

So thank you for clearing that up

[Chalaskan]

Well, have you considered who is leading this alliance? KDII does have a proven track record of less than stellar decisions.

Less than stellar and moronic is a stretch, especially with all the recent !@#$%* leaks.

[Starcraftmazter]

Are you really comparing this to the NPO's actions? They have attacked alliances for much less. Defending oneself is a perfectly valid reason for war, and is what WF is doing.

Actually they are not. They were attacked by rogues, and they should have dealt with the attackers like rogues, and nothing more should have come of this.

[Rebel Virginia]

I support UED already, were they our allies or friends we would have gone to war, but I do not know anything about them. And do not make this about my alliance, we did not announce the Moldavi doctrine, claiming we are the morale superiority in the world and that we will help everyone and anyone.

Well then, Mr. Diarch of Darkfist, if you support UED so much why don't you help them out instead of badgering NSO to do it for you? You cannot honestly expect us to be the first in everything now, can you?

This is not the time nor the place to debate that matter.

Then why did you bring it up? Did you expect me to allow you to take a cheap shot at us and then not correct your fallacious nonsense?

I do not believe I said that NSO supports this, I just said this entire discussion (not just NSO, everyone) is very reminiscent of the old days.

If UED is incapable of controlling its members then it very well deserves what it gets. If a government member can be fooled into attacking a sovereign alliance then UED clearly has problems and was not bound to survive anyway. This war only speeds up the inevitable. When WF starts handing out PZI and EZI then perhaps I will be slighlty outraged, but for WF taking care of an alliance who's incompetence results in them being attacked, I really have no problem with that.

I'm sorry - what? You call that evidence?

Is that evidence too? Your naiveness amuses me.

Congratulations, you know how to fake a screenshot. Want a sticker for that. Still does not change the fact the UED's incompetence resulted in an attack on WF though. Nice try, however.

Thanks for being so honest. Perhaps Moldavi should have written the truth instead of this propaganda nonsense in his doctrine:

But no - it's good that the truth is finally out. In reality, it should be

So thank you for clearing that up

Yes, the NSO retains the option of coming to the aid of any alliance it sees fit. We do not have to come to the aid of every alliance that finds itself rolled, however. If some alliance like UED makes mistakes that gets itself rolled for a reason, we do not need to help them. I hate to break it to you, but we are not the world's white knight. If an alliance truly deserves assistance from us then they will find it, otherwise don't hold your breath waiting. We will not march to our destruction for any alliance and for any reason. I thought by now you would have realized that. I guess I give you far too much credit.

Actually they are not. They were attacked by rogues, and they should have dealt with the attackers like rogues, and nothing more should have come of this.

So government members are no longer considered rogues if they are attack an alliance? I thought that went entirely against the principle that alliances are accountable for the actions of their leaders.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Rebel Virginia