Locke Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 The fact that a topic as simple as this got to 17 pages amazes me. Clearly, there was a lot of miscommunication between these two alliances. Both alliances blame the other side. However, the simple fact is that if they are both blaming the other side (which is what I get from reading 5 pages of this crap) then clearly neither side should care enough about the treaty to actually be arguing that they are right and the other side is wrong. Maybe that's just my opinion, but it seems like common sense to me. Common sense? In my CN? Say it ain't so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruggsymuggs Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) I think these Cancellations are for the best Edited September 1, 2009 by Ruggsymuggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeta Defender Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 TL:DR Athens had nothing to gain by posting this reason and nobody who we cared about would believe it anyway so either we believe it 99% or are entire PR department is a bunch of noobs which through this entire thread people have been praising. I put it in bold just in case you were slow. It didn't work when you tried this same song and dance with NPO and GGA and it won't work now. You might just want to quit while you are ahead instead of trying for strike #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 So we all agree, Athens and TSI should not have a treaty and Athens did not need to make things up to as a reason. Although they could have just waited while TSI got rid of it. And so it ends with all of Planet Bob in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Hey, that's classy. No more than I have come to expect from TPF and its camp followers. The biggest question I've have about your story is if it wasn't TSI spreading info as much as Mhawk making things up, consistent with all the efforts by himself and others in TPF/NPO to play the victim about a war they started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 So we all agree, Athens and TSI should not have a treaty and Athens did not need to make things up to as a reason. Although they could have just waited while TSI got rid of it. And so it ends with all of Planet Bob in agreement. You must have lost your touch while you were on vacation. It doesn't matter who's right or who's wrong at this point, nor does it matter if Athens made something up or not. Clearly, the two signatories of the treaty were no longer friends, and so there's not better reason to cancel a treaty then that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 You must have lost your touch while you were on vacation. It doesn't matter who's right or who's wrong at this point, nor does it matter if Athens made something up or not. Clearly, the two signatories of the treaty were no longer friends, and so there's not better reason to cancel a treaty then that. Agreed. The issue is that Athens tried to make the reason into some scheme with Athens being the victim and The Sasori Initiative being some scheming evil bunch but then couldn't back the charges when called to task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Agreed. The issue is that Athens tried to make the reason into some scheme with Athens being the victim and The Sasori Initiative being some scheming evil bunch but then couldn't back the charges when called to task. and Athens says they didn't. At that point, it's pretty much a No U, No U type argument, which as I've pointed out is quite useless. The treaty is canceled. No amount of bickering will change what is now the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 and Athens says they didn't. At that point, it's pretty much a No U, No U type argument, which as I've pointed out is quite useless. The treaty is canceled. No amount of bickering will change what is now the past. I respectfully disagree. Athens made a serious attempt to slander another alliance and has been called out on that along with evidence to back the other side's version of events. Athens has continually failed to back up their allegations. If this had been a simple cancellation it would not have evolved into this delightful PR disaster for them. Instead, they attempted to take a cheap shot in an attempt to make themselves look better and ran for cover when it became clear that things were not going according to plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medtech Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 UUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Would ya'll just freakin give it a rest all ready!!!!! Face it Neither side is gonna admit fault even if just to save face! Both sides know where they stand on the issue. And the rest of ya can form what ever opinion you feel is "Right" or "Wrong" for you and only you! So the rest of ya just need to let this end. 17 pages of NO U's is WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over done. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Kellerman Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 UUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Would ya'll just freakin give it a rest all ready!!!!! Face it Neither side is gonna admit fault even if just to save face! Both sides know where they stand on the issue. And the rest of ya can form what ever opinion you feel is "Right" or "Wrong" for you and only you! So the rest of ya just need to let this end. 17 pages of NO U's is WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over done. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH If you cannot handle scrutiny from the community, you should not make baseless accusations without evidence. I suppose based on this post that an apology to TSI for attempting to smear their name is out of the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medtech Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Your opinion dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 UUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Would ya'll just freakin give it a rest all ready!!!!! Face it Neither side is gonna admit fault even if just to save face! Both sides know where they stand on the issue. And the rest of ya can form what ever opinion you feel is "Right" or "Wrong" for you and only you! So the rest of ya just need to let this end. 17 pages of NO U's is WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY over done. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH I think everyone's still waiting to see whether Athens steps up to the plate and backs up their claims, apologizes for attempting to slander the name of another alliance or simply slinks away with its collective tail between its legs. It appears you're advocating for option three? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 So we all agree, Athens and TSI should not have a treaty and Athens did not need to make things up to as a reason. Although they could have just waited while TSI got rid of it. And so it ends with all of Planet Bob in agreement. I didn't miss you <@Craig{Athens}> now he's a hasbeen, as opposed to my never was Also, in Athens we truly believe TSI betrayed our trust, I have heard about it many times because I wasn't caring when it happened. Truly believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medtech Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) lol I do believe what needed to be said was said. There was no intentional slander. There was trust issues on athens part weather it be circumstantial or not! Like I said before anything said here or anywhere for that matter could be interperted differently by anyone who may read it. For example this: If you cannot handle scrutiny from the community, you should not make baseless accusations without evidence. I suppose based on this post that an apology to TSI for attempting to smear their name is out of the question? IMO this was uncalled for. I have said very little and this is the first thread that I have actually truely posted my opinion. And I feel that that being said to me was very wrong. I don't even know this guy! But that is my opinion and he is entitled to his. Edited September 1, 2009 by medtech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSkellington Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I didn't miss you <@Craig{Athens}> now he's a hasbeen, as opposed to my never was Also, in Athens we truly believe TSI betrayed our trust, I have heard about it many times because I wasn't caring when it happened. Truly believe. While that is better then knowing they didn't but continuing a charade. However, that's not MUCH better. That would suggest you truly believe that they betrayed your trust based off of nothing more then speculation. Life would be a whole lot better if everyone in CN followed your example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Kellerman Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Your opinion dude. I have said several times in this thread that I was open to Athens providing any evidence to back up their accusation, because if it was true, I would be highly wary of TSI, since I would personally not want to have an ally who spreads private information to enemies. What I have seen is TSI provide logs that they did not receive the information that was leaked, and I have not seen logs from Athens showing that they did, or logs showing that the enemies of Athens have admitted receiving information from TSI about Athens. I really don't care if Athens or TSI are allied or if they cancel their treaty, but when Athens wants the general population to believe that this incident happened - by making an announcement dedicated to the accusation - and then it appears to be untrue, this may make some of us wary of believing Athens in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Jack, isn't quite a bit based on speculation here in cn? Also maybe Londo has more than speculation, and I trust he does if he says he does. Maybe I'll ask, he's a good guy bros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medtech Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Sorry kinda a dbl post I was editing and you all posted more so I'm reposting so you do read it lol I do believe what needed to be said was said. There was no intentional slander. There was trust issues on athens part weather it be circumstantial or not! Like I said before anything said here or anywhere for that matter could be interperted differently by anyone who may read it. "For example this:QUOTE (Jerry Kellerman @ Sep 1 2009, 01:59 AM) If you cannot handle scrutiny from the community, you should not make baseless accusations without evidence. I suppose based on this post that an apology to TSI for attempting to smear their name is out of the question?" IMO this was uncalled for. I have said very little and this is the first thread that I have actually truely posted my opinion. And I feel that that being said to me was very wrong. I don't even know this guy! But that is my opinion and he is entitled to his. This post has been edited by medtech: Today, 02:18 AM edit: I'm a noob when it comes to making the right things stand out with all the codes edit #2: Yeah I got it Edited September 1, 2009 by medtech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSkellington Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Yes, but generally people try and do research on what they are speculating. You don't see anybody DoW with a CB that says "We think they may be spying on us but we have a lack of proof. But trust us, we're great with hunches." You at least see an attempt at proof when making some kind of accusation. Not providing any sort of proof what you are accusing them of is ridiculous. You're providing an open invitation for the "haters". Wait, those aren't haters...those are people who have common sense. There was no intentional slander. There was trust issues on athens part weather it be circumstantial or not! No intentional slander? You just called them out on what some would consider a serious issue in public. Do you expect them to say "Sorry to see this, good luck wherever you go Athens"? Of course not. They'll attempt to defend themselves due to what would be rather detrimental to their name. Edited September 1, 2009 by JackSkellington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Haven't there been CB's based on "We heard they were trying to take us down/attack us/ etc". Such as when FAN was attacked for trying to steal NPO's spot and betraying them in GWIII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSkellington Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Yeah, cause you really so the community supporting those CBs and even considering them valid. Right... And can you provide an example of that I can see? I really have a hard time believing some actually made a DoW with no evidence supporting their claims at all. Most likely they had some form of logs or something. It may have been a weak CB, sure...but to have no evidence at all? I don't know if I've ever actually seen that happen. Edited September 1, 2009 by JackSkellington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medtech Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 You don't see anybody DoW with a CB that says "We think they may be spying on us but we have a lack of proof. But trust us, we're great with hunches." OMG no one is DoW'ing on anyone. That is another funny speculation thing I've seen in this thread that people think a treaty has been cancled war is a brewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSkellington Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Snip. Medtech, I was simply using that as an example. I, in no way, think you canceled this treaty due to a war brewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medtech Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 You don't see anybody DoW with a CB that says "We think they may be spying on us but we have a lack of proof. But trust us, we're great with hunches." OMG no one is DoW'ing on anyone. That is another funny speculation thing I've seen in this thread that people think a treaty has been cancled war is a brewing. Or did I just miss read something and speculate? See how easy that was? Oh and yes lets get one thing straight... I am in Athens Gov and I know what I have read and seen. In regards to this matter and statements in this thread. Many of which were like holy crap was that a direct threat or what? You can say what you want here but depending on the mind set of the person reading it you can truely form the wrong interpretation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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