Prince Yvl Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 But hang on a second...Moo has claimed that the only nations in peace mode are banks? I'm sorry, but my maths has nothing to do with it - I am simply reciting the claims of your own Emperor. Or that. Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essenia Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Or that. Good call. No need to repeat incorrect claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 They have claimed that the only nations permanently in peace mode are the banks. Not entirely true, but you are again misrepresenting what was said. I have never seen under 250 NPO nations in peace mode, not when the war started and not now. Therefore pretty much almost every nation currently in peace mode is permanently in peacemode, and therefore a bank. Enough of your ignorance please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essenia Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I have never seen under 250 NPO nations in peace mode, not when the war started and not now. Therefore pretty much almost every nation currently in peace mode is permanently in peacemode, and therefore a bank. Enough of your ignorance please? It's called cycling. The NPO is not doing it to the extent they claim they are, but as you can see there are many nations in peace mode that were in war mode when the war started and others in war mode that were in peace mode (for strategy reasons) when the war started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I have never seen under 250 NPO nations in peace mode, not when the war started and not now. Therefore pretty much almost every nation currently in peace mode is permanently in peacemode, and therefore a bank. Enough of your ignorance please? Ignorance? If you are seriously claiming we have 250 banks, you are the one who is ignorant. http://www.cybernations.net/allNations_dis...Pacific%20Order Our 250th nation by infra count has 339.44 Infrastructure. Great bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich333 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I think better terms could've been devised. Demanding no monetary reparations at all and getting rid of the two weeks out of peace mode requirement, but forcing them to spend all their remaining money on land and tech (to be verified by spy ops), and forcing them to self-ZI any of their nations which still have infrastructure, then giving them peace on the condition that all of their nations maintain certain minimal navy levels, based on their size, for the duration of the terms (with minimums on the number of naval improvements they need to maintain for a given number of citizens... say, every third improvement, until they have them all), would certainly slow them down to a crawl when it comes to rebuilding. The tech terms could perhaps stay the same, or could be open to negotiation (preferably with a certain amount of mandatory tech dealing at a terrible rate, like 3/150, taking their place). If they accepted and then violated those terms, they'd have plenty of land and tech which could be raided, and if they were to abide by the terms for the duration, they'd end up selling tons of their tech off, once any tech reparations are paid off, just so they can rebuild more quickly. If they're really as bankrupt as they claim, then they should jump at the chance to accept terms like those; they'd have no room for excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I think the terms are more than acceptable. NPO has hundreds of banks with over a billion dollars each, 14 days of combat will do nothing to their ability to fully rebuild and pay whatever reps. NPO could still rebuild themselves in a matter of months. Repeat a lie often enough and it might become true? Please, do provide me with the warchests of these hundreds of banks with over a billion each. The actual number is twenty, but since Karma has been so kindly spying on every high ranked nation, surely they have the list of these actual "hundreds" rather than just the twenty that's been floating around. Oh wait, you can't find it? Try to cut down on the lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodemofi-NPO Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Repeat a lie often enough and it might become true?Please, do provide me with the warchests of these hundreds of banks with over a billion each. The actual number is twenty, but since Karma has been so kindly spying on every high ranked nation, surely they have the list of these actual "hundreds" rather than just the twenty that's been floating around. Oh wait, you can't find it? Try to cut down on the lying. So replace "hundreds" with 20. It doesn't make much of a difference. He's exaggerating by saying you'll be rebuilt in months, but not in that it's very possible for you to pay the reps as well as rebuild with the massive warchests your nations have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I think better terms could've been devised. Demanding no monetary reparations at all and getting rid of the two weeks out of peace mode requirement, but forcing them to spend all their remaining money on land and tech (to be verified by spy ops), and forcing them to self-ZI any of their nations which still have infrastructure, then giving them peace on the condition that all of their nations maintain certain minimal navy levels, based on their size, for the duration of the terms (with minimums on the number of naval improvements they need to maintain for a given number of citizens... say, every third improvement, until they have them all), would certainly slow them down to a crawl when it comes to rebuilding. The tech terms could perhaps stay the same, or could be open to negotiation (preferably with a certain amount of mandatory tech dealing at a terrible rate, like 3/150, taking their place). If they accepted and then violated those terms, they'd have plenty of land and tech which could be raided, and if they were to abide by the terms for the duration, they'd end up selling tons of their tech off, once any tech reparations are paid off, just so they can rebuild more quickly. If they're really as bankrupt as they claim, then they should jump at the chance to accept terms like those; they'd have no room for excuses. You know that puts everyone in bill lock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elendil old Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) considering they are still the largest alliance with over 250 banks in peace most with insane amounts of money and tech stashed away, I think these terms are appropriate - not harsh, nor lenient. Learn to read please thank you. Additionally, a sizable chunk of 36-56 of those nations were banks. (exact number omitted for security reasons) This is from Noob5 an Imperial Officer of Pacifica. Linky for your reference http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...p;#entry1609401. So please stop pulling numbers out of your $@! thank you. No where even close to half of the 250 banks you claim we have. Edited June 14, 2009 by Elendil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raasaa Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) if i were in charge....i would make a grand total of all the reps demanded by NPO in the past...and present it to them as their total reps to be paid... Edited June 14, 2009 by raasaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 if i were in charge....i would make a grand total of all the reps demanded by NPO in the past...and present it to them as their total reps to be paid... Are you saying only take monetary amounts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 if i were in charge....i would make a grand total of all the reps demanded by NPO in the past...and present it to them as their total reps to be paid... I'm pretty sure NPO would take that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich333 Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 You know that puts everyone in bill lock? If you self-ZI, you'll have minimal bills, and since the minimal navy requirements would be dependent on citizen count, you could decom all your ships after you self-ZI, along with the rest of your military, before paying them, though I concede the point for those with lots of improvements and wonders. How about an allowance of $150k for each wonder you have, for a month of wonder bills (instead of having to spend every last cent you have), and a month to do as many 3/100s as you can, after you ditch all your infra and money (save the bill money you're allowed to keep), before any tech reparations have to be paid? That should give you enough time and money to rebuild to the point where you can pay your bills without having to decom any wonders, while still preventing you from recovering quickly. You will have to decom some improvements to be able to manage your bill payments, and it'll be a long while before you can buy any more wonders, but at least you'd get to keep the ones you already have, so it's still better than the alternative of being forced to either reroll or stay in peace mode forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choader Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Are you saying only take monetary amounts? Why, are you afraid of receiving the same non monetary reps you've dished out? Of course that would be cruel and unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Ignorance?If you are seriously claiming we have 250 banks, you are the one who is ignorant. http://www.cybernations.net/allNations_dis...Pacific%20Order Our 250th nation by infra count has 339.44 Infrastructure. Great bank. Once again - I am only reciting the claims made by your own Emperor. Please, do provide me with the warchests of these hundreds of banks with over a billion each. The actual number is twenty, but since Karma has been so kindly spying on every high ranked nation, surely they have the list of these actual "hundreds" rather than just the twenty that's been floating around.Oh wait, you can't find it? I am not involved in the spying operations, so I would not be the person to talk to. I simply recall the spy reports from an earlier part of the war, when my alliance was still engaged in the fighting. There were quite a few of those reports. Learn to read please thank you. This is from Noob5 an Imperial Officer of Pacifica. Linky for your reference http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...p;#entry1609401. So please stop pulling numbers out of your $@! thank you. No where even close to half of the 250 banks you claim we have. 100/731*56 = 7.3%. That means you can bring all your non-bank nations out of peace mode (and expell the rest who disobey orders - to expel nations who willingly refuse to follow orders should be a non-issue for any serious alliance), and satisfy the terms. Given that less than 10% of your nations are banks - and Moo says that this is the primary reason the terms were rejected (that he doesn't want to bring banks out of peace mode), I can now definitively claim that you are all full of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Why, are you afraid of receiving the same non monetary reps you've dished out? Of course that would be cruel and unusual. The only time I have ever been in an alliance during reps being put out was MCXA(BLEU) vs NADC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choader Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 The only time I have ever been in an alliance during reps being put out was MCXA(BLEU) vs NADC. Don't go pulling that !@#$, you are a willing member of Pacifica. When you decided to join and fly that flag you made yourself a party to everything NPO stood for prior and during your tenure. What greater endorsement can there be then to desire a part in their history? Also, if you didn't get it I said nothing of payable reps. A culmination of terms demanded by Pacifica include forced disbandment, Viceroys, destruction of wonders, EZI of members, forced removal of government, ect, ect, ect. The fact that these "harshest terms ever" that were offered to you include none of those punctuate just how despicable your prior actions are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 So replace "hundreds" with 20. It doesn't make much of a difference. He's exaggerating by saying you'll be rebuilt in months, but not in that it's very possible for you to pay the reps as well as rebuild with the massive warchests your nations have. No matter how big a warchest is, nations are still only able to send out 18m. So yes, replacing "hundreds" with 20 DOES make a big difference; 20 nations can only send out 6000 tech or 360m per cycle, even if they have billions in warchests. And if 25,000 tech and 583m per month has to go to Karma, you'll find that it is not an issue of "rebuilding as well as paying reps" but more like "will we even be able to make the minimum payment, without even trying to rebuild alongside it". Once again - I am only reciting the claims made by your own Emperor. Our Emperor has not claimed we have 250 banks. More than half of the 250 nations you claim are "permanently" in peace mode have faced severe drops in NS. How do you explain that? They've been selling off their infra to make it look like they were at war? Please, quit while you're ahead. I am not involved in the spying operations, so I would not be the person to talk to. I simply recall the spy reports from an earlier part of the war, when my alliance was still engaged in the fighting. There were quite a few of those reports. I love the non-committing language you people use. Semantically, "quite a few" can mean anything from over 2 to several thousand. So, what does it mean in this case? Why, are you afraid of receiving the same non monetary reps you've dished out? Of course that would be cruel and unusual. These reps are the harshest ever handed out by both absolute and relative measures. You want to bring up MK? MK had a similar number of nations responsible for paying, but had to pay three time less tech, and none of the seven billion. You want to bring up Athens? Athens did not face a situation where they would be forced to pay out up to 213% of their tech levels at the end of the war. (533k tech (with the 7bn converted) divided by 250k tech (with nuclear losses)= 213.2% , if you are interested). But no, we are not afraid of getting reps that record setting in every single way, and much harsher than anything we have ever given. We simply want the restrictions that accompany the reps to be such that we are left capable of paying them, and not counting on Karma to "scale it down" at the end of the war, especially as they have said that they have no intention of changing the figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raasaa Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Are you saying only take monetary amounts? you want to take the rest as well.........Karma Viceory for NPO ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 you want to take the rest as well.........Karma Viceory for NPO ?? For this do you see a collective such as the continuum as NPO alone or do you do the whole package. Either way ill take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 But no, we are not afraid of getting reps that record setting in every single way, and much harsher than anything we have ever given. We simply want the restrictions that accompany the reps to be such that we are left capable of paying them, and not counting on Karma to "scale it down" at the end of the war, especially as they have said that they have no intention of changing the figure. That is a most ludacrous claim. At the beginning of the game, nations had nothing but a few points of infra. How do you think they got all this that we have today? f!@#ing magic? And many NPO nations will have tonnes of resources left after this conflict ends - should you choose to end it. You will be able to pay the reps - you are just trying to weasel out of it, playing victim - something which you really suck at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choader Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 These reps are the harshest ever handed out by both absolute and relative measures. You want to bring up MK? MK had a similar number of nations responsible for paying, but had to pay three time less tech, and none of the seven billion. You want to bring up Athens? Athens did not face a situation where they would be forced to pay out up to 213% of their tech levels at the end of the war. (533k tech (with the 7bn converted) divided by 250k tech (with nuclear losses)= 213.2% , if you are interested).But no, we are not afraid of getting reps that record setting in every single way, and much harsher than anything we have ever given. We simply want the restrictions that accompany the reps to be such that we are left capable of paying them, and not counting on Karma to "scale it down" at the end of the war, especially as they have said that they have no intention of changing the figure. As long as you are allowed to keep your wonders, Dear Leader, IOs, and alliance these are not even close to the harshest terms ever. For those, look in a mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens of the desert Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 No. I wonder why... But really, this is mostly going to just be a poll asking whether you are karma or hegemony. Now if you had made a poll exclusively for karma, that would have made sense and been more enlightening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viluin Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) Considering most of their treaties have already been cancelled, considering their doctrines are pure cancer projected upon the red team, and considering they are still the largest alliance with over 250 banks in peace most with insane amounts of money and tech stashed away, I think these terms are appropriate - not harsh, nor lenient. We don't have anywhere near 250 banks. That means you can bring all your non-bank nations out of peace mode (and expell the rest who disobey orders - to expel nations who willingly refuse to follow orders should be a non-issue for any serious alliance), and satisfy the terms.Given that less than 10% of your nations are banks - and Moo says that this is the primary reason the terms were rejected (that he doesn't want to bring banks out of peace mode), I can now definitively claim that you are all full of crap. Actually, Karma wants 90% of our banks out of peace mode, as per the terms. The banks are the only ones with more than 4k infra left. Edited June 14, 2009 by Viluin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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