New Pacific Order Reps Race

[magicninja]

For those who say NPO is just going to wait until Karma splits up, look at the treaties and ties between the alliances on the NPO front. Their ties are fairly strong so it's unlikely they will dissolve before the fight is done.

I dunno the post war cliques are getting pretty interesting. Never say never. Seems like bad luck around here to say that.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

Yes an no. More or less the issue is why come out of peace mode at his point if they don't know if the terms they will be offered are ones they would accept.

It's not like they won't be able to pay off the reparations, or that they don't have the money to do so. If their top nation could give give away his warchest freely, it would probably cover any and all reparations demanded (assuming 3/100 tech), easily.

If they want to pick stagnation: so be it. It means the rest of us grow while they slowly decay in peace mode.

[Jack Diorno]

For those who say NPO is just going to wait until Karma splits up, look at the treaties and ties between the alliances on the NPO front. Their ties are fairly strong so it's unlikely they will dissolve before the fight is done.

Its true. Athens loves Sparta.

[Roadie]

Its true. Athens loves Sparta.

And at least Athens is fighting.

I'm so gonna get ripped to shreds for that comment.

[magicninja]

It's not like they won't be able to pay off the reparations, or that they don't have the money to do so. If their top nation could give give away his warchest freely, it would probably cover any and all reparations demanded (assuming 3/100 tech), easily.

If they want to pick stagnation: so be it. It means the rest of us grow while they slowly decay in peace mode.

I doubt it's about paying the reps. I think it's about not knowing how much damage to expect before the reps. They may capitulate if you give them all the info needed to make a sound decision.

[Rafael Nadal]

Whether or not we on the NPO front actually extract all the peace mode reps is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that for 5 days, NPO had a glorious chance to secure lenient peace terms. Even if we don't get the peace mode reps, any reps payment will now be higher for NPO. They plainly do not have the opportunity to secure the same low reps numbers as they did during the 5 day penalty free window.

[Rush Sykes]

It is not a pre-term for an entire alliance, only for individual nations. It also had a very clear resolution (it may have been a cruel and unnecessarily harsh resolution, but it was pretty clear). Also, and I could honestly be wrong here, but how effectively was that ever even enforced? Honestly, the idea was bad then, even in that form, and now Karma has managed to use a bad idea to justify an worse idea. These pre-terms are doomed to failure, and that is that.

Understand, I am not here to start trouble. But I find your statement that it was a bad idea then, even in that form, to be puzzling to me....As this.....

Are Pacifican banks under threat of Perma-ZI?

A wise and benevolent (and very passionate) announcement, as always.

Was your post in the thread announcing the ultimatum to GATO. I will assume that you have changed your mind about that, but still...puzzling.

[TypoNinja]

I doubt it's about paying the reps. I think it's about not knowing how much damage to expect before the reps. They may capitulate if you give them all the info needed to make a sound decision.

Well thats the NPO's problem, they spent plenty of time generating ill will. Karma is in no hurry to grant peace, most of us are just as happy beating on them. If NPO wants peace from a war they started they need to convince karma that peace is better. NPO seems to think we need to meet their demands for peace, when its the other way around.

[Roadie]

Whether or not we on the NPO front actually extract all the peace mode reps is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that for 5 days, NPO had a glorious chance to secure lenient peace terms. Even if we don't get the peace mode reps, any reps payment will now be higher for NPO. They plainly do not have the opportunity to secure the same low reps numbers as they did during the 5 day penalty free window.

And there you have it folks. Karma, in all their great mercy, gave NPO a chance to experience a Great Leniency, but NPO was foolish and squandered that Great Leniency. Now Karma has no choice but to grant them a Less Great Leniency.

[TypoNinja]

Are Pacifican banks under threat of Perma-ZI?

Nope.

Edited May 29, 2009 by TypoNinja

[Jack Diorno]

And there you have it folks. Karma, in all their great mercy, gave NPO a chance to experience a Great Leniency, but NPO was foolish and squandered that Great Leniency. Now Karma has no choice but to grant them a Less Great Leniency.

Karma never promised mercy. I do believe they promised harsh reps for NPO though.

[Roadie]

Well thats the NPO's problem, they spent plenty of time generating ill will. Karma is in no hurry to grant peace, most of us are just as happy beating on them. If NPO wants peace from a war to protect an OV spy they need to convince karma that peace is better. NPO seems to think we need to meet their demands for peace, when its the other way around.

There. Fixed it for you.

[Rafael Nadal]

I doubt it's about paying the reps. I think it's about not knowing how much damage to expect before the reps. They may capitulate if you give them all the info needed to make a sound decision.

If they're interested, I'm sure they could approach some of us on the NPO front and try to work it out. I have a good idea of how much damage/how many cycles of war they could expect.

Oh, and by us, I don't mean myself personally.

[Roadie]

Karma never promised mercy. I do believe they promised harsh reps for NPO though.

Read the post I responded to. You'll find the word lenient.

[o ya baby]

I don't give a crap either way. Personally, I'd rather see them squashed under the jackboot for about a year or two so they could see how it was like, then maybe give them some terms that were as harsh as the ones they saw fit to hand out so casually.

Harsh reps, eternal war...either way I'm getting what I want.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

I doubt it's about paying the reps. I think it's about not knowing how much damage to expect before the reps. They may capitulate if you give them all the info needed to make a sound decision.

It is neither my decision to make, and really: we're content in waiting. I have no idea what the goal post is: though it'll probably be achieved by a cycle or two of war. In any event, staying in peace mode and somehow hoping we'll give them the terms isn't going to get them anywhere.

[o ya baby]

There. Fixed it for you.

Lol, we're still on this? You're a spy if you accept information? Hmm, I guess I'm a spy too then.

[Rafael Nadal]

And there you have it folks. Karma, in all their great mercy, gave NPO a chance to experience a Great Leniency, but NPO was foolish and squandered that Great Leniency. Now Karma has no choice but to grant them a Less Great Leniency.

I enjoyed the satire of the post, but it provides no point, and thus nothing to refute or retort against.

[TypoNinja]

There. Fixed it for you.

Aww wheres a moo-cows sig when you need one?

By NPO's emperor's own admission accepting information is not the same as spying, and NPO accepts information without even questioning its source as evidenced by the mhawk log dump.

Thats not a bit of semantics the NPO can come out looking like the victim in, especially with the whole 'attack during negotiations' bit.

And oh dear, we've (re)opened this can of worms. I'm gonna need more coffee.

[Heft]

Understand, I am not here to start trouble. But I find your statement that it was a bad idea then, even in that form, to be puzzling to me....As this.....

Are Pacifican banks under threat of Perma-ZI?

A wise and benevolent (and very passionate) announcement, as always.

Was your post in the thread announcing the ultimatum to GATO. I will assume that you have changed your mind about that, but still...puzzling.

I don't think it's going to come as a huge shock that I have said many meaningless things in this game. I'm quite good at saying meaningless things when the need arises. Especially in meaningless announcements.

None of that changes that the only foreseeable outcome of this path is an extended war or the reps being threatened here being ignored out of necessity. This threat is meaningless and no rational alliance would respond to it by actually jumping out of peace mode immediately. I'm not sure if that was understood by those who gave it and they are just now !@#$%^&*ting, or they are truly that mistaken.

[Roadie]

Aww wheres a moo-cows sig when you need one?

By NPO's emperor's own admission accepting information is not the same as spying, and NPO accepts information without even questioning its source as evidenced by the mhawk log dump.

Thats not a bit of semantics the NPO can come out looking like the victim in, especially with the whole 'attack during negotiations' bit.

And oh dear, we've (re)opened this can of worms. I'm gonna need more coffee.

Nah. We're not reopening anything. Just having a bit of fun.

[Jgoods45]

Its true. Athens loves Sparta.

This.

o/ our Spartan friends and allies.

[TypoNinja]

I don't think it's going to come as a huge shock that I have said many meaningless things in this game. I'm quite good at saying meaningless things when the need arises. Especially in meaningless announcements.

None of that changes that the only foreseeable outcome of this path is an extended war or the reps being threatened here being ignored out of necessity. This threat is meaningless and no rational alliance would respond to it by actually jumping out of peace mode immediately. I'm not sure if that was understood by those who gave it and they are just now !@#$%^&*ting, or they are truly that mistaken.

I may be overly cynical, but I think the conditions themselves we're not the goal of the condition. Either NPO came out of pace mode and got some beat down (a win), or they didnt and we simply keep beating on those who aren't in hiding (status quo). From a strategic point of view either nothing changed or we gained an advantage.

also the delicious irony is very delicious indeed, and might have been too hard for Karma to resist

[TypoNinja]

Nah. We're not reopening anything. Just having a bit of fun.

You sir are evil.

[Rush Sykes]

I don't think it's going to come as a huge shock that I have said many meaningless things in this game. I'm quite good at saying meaningless things when the need arises. Especially in meaningless announcements.

None of that changes that the only foreseeable outcome of this path is an extended war or the reps being threatened here being ignored out of necessity. This threat is meaningless and no rational alliance would respond to it by actually jumping out of peace mode immediately. I'm not sure if that was understood by those who gave it and they are just now !@#$%^&*ting, or they are truly that mistaken.

Really, I do think I get what you mean. I think, not just you, but for MANY people, that the meaningless hails to simply tow the party line are the reasons that so much animosity exists, not only on both sides of any war, but even within the allies on both sides, and in many cases, the individual nations within an alliance. It makes me wonder why people consider treaty partners to be "friends." It seems that in too many cases, the friend isnt able to tell their friend that something they are doing is probably a bad idea, because it would be being a bad treaty partner. The cycle repeats itself, and nobody learns.... which is a good thing, lest we would be deprived of all this political intrigue. Anyhow, before I get a warn for going off topic, let me just reiterate, that it wasnt a personal attack, it was just something I had recalled. Carry on good sir.