Hey-ho hey-ho it's off to work we go

[TwistedRebelDB47]

Good lord, fight already.

Ask The Phoenix Federation and Valhalla if we have been fighting.

this is correct, poison clan broke the treaty by ignoring this clause and attacking tpf.

what i think is incredibly amusing is the argument that 'poison clan didnt break the treaty because they broke the treaty'

i mean, seriously?

We followed the terms we were forced to accept.

Terms forced down our throats after surrender terms. Surrender terms brought upon us with no reason and no proof besides the typical NPO-backed front of "disrespecting you." You pushed non-existent accusations down our throats and convinced our allies to cancel on us and run off. Today we continue to push reality down your throat like the oil pushed down Troy Barlow's throat in We Three Kings. Drink our Poison, !@#$%*es.

I will fight until there's nothing left in my nation. I say that in confidence that the rest of Poison Clan believes the same. You have wronged us one time too many.

[TwistedRebelDB47]

The Spirit > The Letter

At least if one's intent is that of honourable conduct. Following the Letter while ignoring the Spirit of any pact, bargain, or deal is for lawyer's prattle, not proud men of their word, men of action and nobility.

Ask TPF what "honor" is.

That cancellation term of the NAP was designed by TPF to exploit the treaty in their own favor. Don't cry because we utilized it first.

[Kevin Cash]

The Phoenix Federation will get what it deserves for spending over a year with a sole goal of destroying our alliance.

do you know what the phrase 'unwarranted self importance' means?

true, you have always been an alliance that was defined by its arrogance and malice, but if you think that tpf dropped everything for an entire year just to crush you... wow, i just dont know what to say.

if you want my honest opinion, tpf should have wiped you out when they had the chance. your alliance doesnt have a single redeeming quality, and you have contributed nothing of any value whatsoever to the world, except maybe one day you might be useful for target practice. they were far too merciful to grant you any sort of terms at all.

and you repaid that mercy with this arrogance and hatred, and a knife in the back.

karma, make me eat my words, show this classless scum that you do stand for change and that you won't tolerate this crap. show that youre not a coalition of convenience and you truly believe in what you say.

[mhawk]

We followed the terms we were forced to accept.

Terms forced down our throats after surrender terms. Surrender terms brought upon us with no reason and no proof besides the typical NPO-backed front of "disrespecting you." You pushed non-existent accusations down our throats and convinced our allies to cancel on us and run off. Today we continue to push reality down your throat like the oil pushed down Troy Barlow's throat in We Three Kings. Drink our Poison, !@#$%*es.

I will fight until there's nothing left in my nation. I say that in confidence that the rest of Poison Clan believes the same. You have wronged us one time too many.

God, NPO had nothing to do with pc/tpf relations. I think you really need to calm down and think for a minute. I've done nothing but try to repair relations since I took over. I could have easily destroyed you at the height of our power and your complete isolate, but still continued to try to fix things. To say we tried to kill you for over a year is an incredible lie, or some massive delusion. You didn't even leave TPF until mid April, I worked my hardest to get the PC/TPF nap off during Jan (prior to that we had already removed pretty much every term). How were we trying to kill you for over a year?

I've tried to fix relations and will continue to try, but you need to take step back from this incredible hate you have over imaginary crap. Yeah some stuff slayer did was bad, he mad alot of bad moves and he'll be accountable and fully willing to go to the cross for that regarding PC. I've made some mistakes towards you guys as well, but to say I did nothing but try to kill you is a gross misrepresentation.

Edited May 12, 2009 by mhawk

[Caliph]

ahh, thats more like it, it just didn't feel right with twisted going on and no blind rage from other karma folks.

can i get some 'twisted doesnt represent the opinions of karma' now? i mean, i know you guys have no central leadership ('high command' and 'karma gov channel' refer to completely different thins guys), but can we get some big figures to remark on behalf of this organization that doesnt exist that if it did exist they wouldnt support poison clans actions?

Don't support Poison Clan's actions?

Why wouldn't they? PC is rolling TPF and PC's allies are rolling Avalon.

PC has also called TPF out on the crap that TPF tried to pull, and has been pulling, on PC for the past year.

TPF has had this coming, thus they are hit by forces fighting under the side that "Karma" is on. TPF brought this upon herself by treating PC a certain way. Now that the boot is on the other foot, TPF doesn't seem to like being treated this way at all.

And for some reason, people like you are coming out of the woodwork saying "oh evil karma, why must you make alliances that initiative an offensive war which has broken out into a huge global war, why must you make the side that started, that initiated hostilities, surrender with anything more than white peace? I mean even though Hegemony alliances have issued a lot of harsh surrender terms in the past, how dare Karma do it".

Where was your outrage when Hegemony was doing this?

Where was your outrage over BLEU rolling NADC based in "evidence" that they refused to share with the public CN forums, or anyone not in BLEU?

Where was your outrage over the NoCB war, and over the Infra>Friends side's reps?

Where was your outrage over the NPO telling GATO nations in peace mode that if they aren't out in 3/5 days (forget which it was) that they will face perma ZI?

Where was it? Because mine was right here on these forums. I was speaking out against those actions when they happened.

You are just speaking out against "Karma" doing something remotely similar to what Hegemony has been doing, and are just now doing it.

Learn your history, boy, and that should tell you which side has issued the harshest surrender terms on alliances who have enterred wars solely because they were honoring treaties.

[mhawk]

Ask TPF what "honor" is.

That cancellation term of the NAP was designed by TPF to exploit the treaty in their own favor. Don't cry because we utilized it first.

That is a lie. That treaty was meant to be solid and a stepping stone between our alliances. There was never any intent to hit pc.

[mhawk]

PC has also called TPF out on the crap that TPF tried to pull, and has been pulling, on PC for the past year.

I think much of that "crap" is grossly misrepresented.

[SyndicatedINC]

Ask TPF what "honor" is.

That cancellation term of the NAP was designed by TPF to exploit the treaty in their own favor. Don't cry because we utilized it first.

There is no crying, quite the opposite, we were laughing at the irony of the situation.

As for TPF's honour, we are satisfied that they understand the definition well enough. If they did not however and had broken the NAP in the same manner and attacked Poison Clan, then you can be most assured that Avalon would not be by there side this day. Likewise had TPF requested our involvement to support the NPO attacks on OV or to jump in on a curbstomp gang-bang we would have equally refused. More so we would have also been publicly calling them to task on such atrocities of decency.

This however is not what has happened and they were not the ones to break this treaty.

[cowen70]

That is a lie. That treaty was meant to be solid and a stepping stone between our alliances. There was never any intent to hit pc.

I wonder, there must be a vast disconnect between you and the other members of your gov and membership. Did they ship you off to an island with a box of cubans and a bottle of rum? (which to be fair sounds great)

I ask because anyone who bore witness to the interactions between TPF and PC knows that the war has been coming for a long long time. The only thing that prevented it was heightened tensions in Q and the possibility of a bigger war as far as I am concerned. Yes you could have beaten them initially but settled for repeatedly kicking them in the and then I suspect a large portion of your AA began to regret this and really wanted to hit them but found themselves unable.

Maybe thats not your opinion, but if it is I hope the view is nice and the cigars plentiful.

Edit: On a different more ontopic note. Our MoW was brand new to the AA as the war kicked off. The fact remains I and others took on superior numbers and came off better. Then when numbers looked like evening out then surrender was swift. I wish Avalon only the best in this, I already have at least one competent opponent.

Edited May 12, 2009 by cowen70

[Kevin Cash]

Don't support Poison Clan's actions?

Why wouldn't they? PC is rolling TPF and PC's allies are rolling Avalon.

PC has also called TPF out on the crap that TPF tried to pull, and has been pulling, on PC for the past year.

TPF has had this coming, thus they are hit by forces fighting under the side that "Karma" is on. TPF brought this upon herself by treating PC a certain way. Now that the boot is on the other foot, TPF doesn't seem to like being treated this way at all.

pretty much just blatant lies in the above quote. the only thing in the way of improved relations between pc and tpf was pc's arrogance.

And for some reason, people like you are coming out of the woodwork saying "oh evil karma, why must you make alliances that initiative an offensive war which has broken out into a huge global war, why must you make the side that started, that initiated hostilities, surrender with anything more than white peace? I mean even though Hegemony alliances have issued a lot of harsh surrender terms in the past, how dare Karma do it".

forgive me for calling you out on your hypocrisy?

Where was your outrage when Hegemony was doing this?

Where was your outrage over BLEU rolling NADC based in "evidence" that they refused to share with the public CN forums, or anyone not in BLEU?

Where was your outrage over the NoCB war, and over the Infra>Friends side's reps?

Where was your outrage over the NPO telling GATO nations in peace mode that if they aren't out in 3/5 days (forget which it was) that they will face perma ZI?

bleu was led by polaris, and if memory serves right, you all cried and moaned when they got rolled for their crimes. funny thing, that. its almost like youre willing to make friends with whoever winds up on your side, no matter how tainted their history. which only reinforces my point about poison clan.

Learn your history, boy, and that should tell you which side has issued the harshest surrender terms on alliances who have enterred wars solely because they were honoring treaties.

so two wrongs make right... no, even that tired phrase doesnt fit... what youre doing is harming one group of innocents because in the past a group you dont like harmed another set of innocents, and you somehow think it is justified. its like if i shot an innocent man on the street, and you pulled out your gun and shot another innocent man to somehow punish me. in reality, you are being pathetic, and even with the massive nation strength advantage held by karma, a number of you are even yet grasping for straws to put together some sort of weak argument to demonstrate how it is ok for poison clan to be as arrogant and blindly hateful as they are.

[Caliph]

I think much of that "crap" is grossly misrepresented.

Perhaps you didn't participate in it, but much of your alliance did.

And you and yours have always stated that the alliance is responsible for the actions of their leaders as well as their members. I've seen alliances rolled because of a perceived slight from a gov official, and the refusal of alliances to expelling a member over a perceived slight.

That is why I support PC in this whole heartedly. The logic your side has spouted over the past 2 years is being applied to you, and we are holding your entire alliance responsible for what some have done. Just like how TPF held the entire GOONS responsible for what some GOONS did.

Edit:

pretty much just blatant lies in the above quote. the only thing in the way of improved relations between pc and tpf was pc's arrogance.

No, the only thing in the way of repairing relations between TPF and PC was TPF and PC. Both sides wanted this, don't kid yourself by believing otherwise.

forgive me for calling you out on your hypocrisy?

Explain to me what I have said is hypocrisy. Really, I want to hear this, because I take great effort in not being hypocratic.

bleu was led by polaris, and if memory serves right, you all cried and moaned when they got rolled for their crimes. funny thing, that. its almost like youre willing to make friends with whoever winds up on your side, no matter how tainted their history. which only reinforces my point about poison clan.

BLEU was led by Polaris, however you are also forgetting Echelon, MCXA, NV, and a few other alliances (sorry to forget your names now, its late).

And I did not cry when Polaris got hers. The NpO had it coming for a long time, the only thing I spoke out against in that front of the NoCB war was that NATO, MCXA, Echelon, and NPO all betraying Polaris and not standing with her in her hour of need.

You still don't know who you are talking with. I have spoken out against these unjust acts for the past 2 years, while you are calling Karma hypocrits for doing nothing at all similar to what the Hegemony has done. I've lived through this, you are acting as if you read this in some history book.

You fail your history exam, but I hear theres a retake after school.

so two wrongs make right... no, even that tired phrase doesnt fit... what youre doing is harming one group of innocents because in the past a group you dont like harmed another set of innocents, and you somehow think it is justified. its like if i shot an innocent man on the street, and you pulled out your gun and shot another innocent man to somehow punish me. in reality, you are being pathetic, and even with the massive nation strength advantage held by karma, a number of you are even yet grasping for straws to put together some sort of weak argument to demonstrate how it is ok for poison clan to be as arrogant and blindly hateful as they are.

Innocents?

Clearly you have not had the pleasure of hearing the Hegemonies party line over the past 2 years.

"Alliances as a whole are responsible for the actions of their leaders". The NPO and Continuum condemned the GPA to an all out blitz based on Valid, the then President of the GPA's, actions towards Dilber of the NPO. The GPA was finally released from terms about a year after they had surrendered.

Countless alliances have been hit by Hegemony forces for the actions of a few. GATO got hit by One Vision because at one point since GW2 GATO had accepted Chris Kaos into their ranks. He had been gone from CN for months before the NPO found out, yet the actions of a few people in the government in GATO condemned the entire alliance to warfare from the entire One Vision bloc.

Care to tell me where your outrage was when these events were occuring?

Oh wait, you only speak out against "Karma", and compare what Karma is doing, with their white peace and lenient surrender terms, to what the Hegemony has done, which was extort alliances for tech, hold them under surrender terms for close to a year, install foreign Viceroys, hold grudges for 2 years, betray alliances, and issue growth crippling surrender terms.

So ...how is what Karma is doing anything at all to what the Hegemony has done?

Explain this, because your simply aren't getting it.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Caliph

[SyndicatedINC]

PC is rolling TPF and PC's allies are rolling Avalon.

You have an interesting definition of 'rolling' there distinguished opponent. Perhaps you helped yourself to a few too many beverages from Avalon's mini-fridge. It happens from time to time.

Where was your outrage when Hegemony was doing this?

Where was your outrage over BLEU rolling NADC based in "evidence" that they refused to share with the public CN forums, or anyone not in BLEU?

Where was your outrage over the NoCB war, and over the Infra>Friends side's reps?

Where was your outrage over the NPO telling GATO nations in peace mode that if they aren't out in 3/5 days (forget which it was) that they will face perma ZI?

Avalon's outrage was here on the forums during NADC. Likewise for the NoCB in fact we offered to help pay the reps for Athens but Londo turned us down.

[SyndicatedINC]

I wonder, there must be a vast disconnect between you and the other members of your gov and membership. Did they ship you off to an island with a box of cubans and a bottle of rum? (which to be fair sounds great)

I ask because anyone who bore witness to the interactions between TPF and PC knows that the war has been coming for a long long time. The only thing that prevented it was heightened tensions in Q and the possibility of a bigger war as far as I am concerned. Yes you could have beaten them initially but settled for repeatedly kicking them in the and then I suspect a large portion of your AA began to regret this and really wanted to hit them but found themselves unable.

Maybe thats not your opinion, but if it is I hope the view is nice and the cigars plentiful.

Edit: On a different more ontopic note. Our MoW was brand new to the AA as the war kicked off. The fact remains I and others took on superior numbers and came off better. Then when numbers looked like evening out then surrender was swift. I wish Avalon only the best in this, I already have at least one competent opponent.

Cowen I can't help it every time you post and I see your avatar all I can think of is this:

[Kevin Cash]

Perhaps you didn't participate in it, but much of your alliance did.

here's a crazy theory, but maybe, just maybe, it was in response to the continual arrogance and blind malice shown by poison clan?

And you and yours have always stated that the alliance is responsible for the actions of their leaders as well as their members. I've seen alliances rolled because of a perceived slight from a gov official, and the refusal of alliances to expelling a member over a perceived slight.

if the gov does not expel a member they are supporting the actions of said member. and yes, it is true that a leaders actions are the same as those of his alliance. so, tell me, what exactly is the huge crime tpf is being charged with here? not allowing themselves to be treated like crap by pc? trying to improve relations? oh, the horror. i heard that slayer got a bunch of folks off pzi, and even went to bat for fan... what shameful actions by tpf.

That is why I support PC in this whole heartedly. The logic your side has spouted over the past 2 years is being applied to you, and we are holding your entire alliance responsible for what some have done. Just like how TPF held the entire GOONS responsible for what some GOONS did.

i enjoyed the way you left out the trivial little fact that the people doing the attacks were the leadership of goons.

[Caliph]

You have an interesting definition of 'rolling' there distinguished opponent. Perhaps you helped yourself to a few too many beverages from Avalon's mini-fridge. It happens from time to time.

Touche, mon ami

Avalon's outrage was here on the forums during NADC. Likewise for the NoCB in fact we offered to help pay the reps for Athens but Londo turned us down.

I was directing that towards Kevin Cash, and not to you.

A lot of us were protesting those events, however I do not recall him protesting those events. Those were truly unjust actions, and I am calling him out on hypocricy for his failed attempt at comparing Karma to Hegemony based on the actions in this war.

[Caliph]

here's a crazy theory, but maybe, just maybe, it was in response to the continual arrogance and blind malice shown by poison clan?

Or perhaps it was months of TPF leadership telling certain people to "shut up and leave"?

Maybe it was TPF's treatement of PC that started this whole thing, and TPF's attitude of "we're treatied to the NPO do as we say you worm" might have something to do with it?

There are two sides to every story. You are attempting to portray PC as the only side here that had a dislike over the other. That is incorrect, and is a blatant lie. Perhaps Mhawk wanted to repair relations, but others did not.

if the gov does not expel a member they are supporting the actions of said member. and yes, it is true that a leaders actions are the same as those of his alliance. so, tell me, what exactly is the huge crime tpf is being charged with here? not allowing themselves to be treated like crap by pc? trying to improve relations? oh, the horror. i heard that slayer got a bunch of folks off pzi, and even went to bat for fan... what shameful actions by tpf.

So because one person in TPF wanted to repair relations that means all of TPF wanted to repair relations?

This is incorrect, and that is not how your side has portrayed such events.

Lets try this again. You don't seem to be a quick student, perhaps if we try this again and go over it real slow, you might get it this time (since I can't talk real slow, i'll settle for typing this really slow ).

Members of TPF want to hit PC.

One member of TPF wants to improve relations with PC.

Conclusion: TPF wants to hit PC.

Capiche?

i enjoyed the way you left out the trivial little fact that the people doing the attacks were the leadership of goons.

I liked how you left out the trivial fact that TPF gov members wanted to hit PC.

[SyndicatedINC]

I was directing that towards Kevin Cash, and not to you.

A lot of us were protesting those events, however I do not recall him protesting those events. Those were truly unjust actions, and I am calling him out on hypocricy for his failed attempt at comparing Karma to Hegemony based on the actions in this war.

Gotcha, but since we are on the complaint fest of past actions I wanna just say I am also with you completely on the GPA roll as well. Was pretty thinly veiled drive to knock them off the top NS slot. Pretty dishonourable that was

[Kevin Cash]

No, the only thing in the way of repairing relations between TPF and PC was TPF and PC. Both sides wanted this, don't kid yourself by believing otherwise.

so if both sides wanted this, why is it that only tpf are the evil ones here, shouldnt pc be getting an equal amount of scorn in that case?

Explain to me what I have said is hypocrisy. Really, I want to hear this, because I take great effort in not being hypocratic.

this intentional misinterpretation of what i said does not even dignify a response

BLEU was led by Polaris, however you are also forgetting Echelon, MCXA, NV, and a few other alliances (sorry to forget your names now, its late).

And I did not cry when Polaris got hers. The NpO had it coming for a long time, the only thing I spoke out against in that front of the NoCB war was that NATO, MCXA, Echelon, and NPO all betraying Polaris and not standing with her in her hour of need.

youll have to explain to me what you mean by 'nocb war' im sorry i dont speak karmite. though i do think it funny that in the same breath you state that there was 'no cb' and then that 'polar had it coming for a long time'

You still don't know who you are talking with. I have spoken out against these unjust acts for the past 2 years, while you are calling Karma hypocrits for doing nothing at all similar to what the Hegemony has done. I've lived through this, you are acting as if you read this in some history book.

You fail your history exam, but I hear theres a retake after school.

Innocents?

Clearly you have not had the pleasure of hearing the Hegemonies party line over the past 2 years.

"Alliances as a whole are responsible for the actions of their leaders". The NPO and Continuum condemned the GPA to an all out blitz based on Valid, the then President of the GPA's, actions towards Dilber of the NPO. The GPA was finally released from terms about a year after they had surrendered.

Countless alliances have been hit by Hegemony forces for the actions of a few. GATO got hit by One Vision because at one point since GW2 GATO had accepted Chris Kaos into their ranks. He had been gone from CN for months before the NPO found out, yet the actions of a few people in the government in GATO condemned the entire alliance to warfare from the entire One Vision bloc.

Care to tell me where your outrage was when these events were occuring?

im sorry that i cannot travel back in time to when my nation did not exist, so i can whine and complain about these events for you. i must be a hypocrite for that.

Oh wait, you only speak out against "Karma", and compare what Karma is doing, with their white peace and lenient surrender terms, to what the Hegemony has done, which was extort alliances for tech, hold them under surrender terms for close to a year, install foreign Viceroys, hold grudges for 2 years, betray alliances, and issue growth crippling surrender terms.

So ...how is what Karma is doing anything at all to what the Hegemony has done?

Explain this, because your simply aren't getting it.

i speak out against the karma hypocrisies because the karma hypocrisies are happening right now. im not sure what is so difficult to understand about that, but apparently, something is.

my friend, it is you who are not getting it. i am posting about pc and their protectorates, and their conduct during this war, and how it is appalling that karma, who tout themselves as the bringers of light in this world, stand idle and watch if not support the despicable actions of pc and others during this war. this is not about hegemony, as much as you would like it to be. this is about pc. now stop dodging my points, or you may force me to look up the latin phrase for whatever logical fallacy you are using. and nobody wants that.

[Caliph]

Gotcha, but since we are on the complaint fest of past actions I wanna just say I am also with you completely on the GPA roll as well. Was pretty thinly veiled drive to knock them off the top NS slot. Pretty dishonourable that was

Completely agreed, however at the exact moment of the declaration of war from Continuum, the Legion reps (the unspecified amount of reparations to be given for an unspecified amount of time to the NPO for Legion spying on the NPO) had pushed NPO to the #1 spot, above the GPA.

That was done so the NPO could claim it wasn't done for the #1 spot.

[Kevin Cash]

I am calling him out on hypocricy for his failed attempt at comparing Karma to Hegemony based on the actions in this war.

i am a hypocrite because i didn't call out past crimes when my nation did not exist? please, give me a break.

i dont think i can argue with you anymore. debates are fun and all, but it is mighty late to be wasting my time with someone who cannot scrap together a coherent argument for the life of him.

good night.

[Caliph]

so if both sides wanted this, why is it that only tpf are the evil ones here, shouldnt pc be getting an equal amount of scorn in that case?

It is TPF's treatment of both PC, and a multitude of others, that has brought this upon TPF. This goes beyond TPF/PC bilateral relations.

this intentional misinterpretation of what i said does not even dignify a response

No, its late here in Caliphate, and I truly did not understand what you mean by that statement.

youll have to explain to me what you mean by 'nocb war' im sorry i dont speak karmite. though i do think it funny that in the same breath you state that there was 'no cb' and then that 'polar had it coming for a long time'

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/War_of_the_Coalition

The War of the Coalition (WotC), or War of the First Coalition, originally the GGA-Hyperion War, also known as Great War V (though disputed by some), the Great Polar War, or the noCB War

Reference, quoted and bolded my "source".

im sorry that i cannot travel back in time to when my nation did not exist, so i can whine and complain about these events for you. i must be a hypocrite for that.

That is not what is making you a hypocrit, what makes you a hypocrit here is that you are ignoring what Hegemony has done, ignored what TPF has done, and instead hold karma and PC to a different, more harsh, set of standards than you do for Hegemony and TPF.

i speak out against the karma hypocrisies because the karma hypocrisies are happening right now. im not sure what is so difficult to understand about that, but apparently, something is.

So how is an alliance honoring a treaty here an affront to Karma? If you are upset with the way the treaties in this war chain, you clearly haven't seen some of the more blatant betrayals in the history here.

my friend, it is you who are not getting it. i am posting about pc and their protectorates, and their conduct during this war, and how it is appalling that karma, who tout themselves as the bringers of light in this world, stand idle and watch if not support the despicable actions of pc and others during this war. this is not about hegemony, as much as you would like it to be. this is about pc. now stop dodging my points, or you may force me to look up the latin phrase for whatever logical fallacy you are using. and nobody wants that.

What despicable actions of PC are you referring to?

The actions of one member, for one night?

What about the actions of TPF for the past 2 years?

Doesn't that warrant more of an outcry for acting in a consistant manner of attempted extortion for the past two years than the actions of one member for one night?

You seem intent on judging all of PC for the actions of one member here. I am intent on judging all of TPF for the consistant actions of their government and members for the past 2 years.

And I'm not dodging your points, I'm responding to each and every one of your points, and I remain unimpressed by your continued lack of comprehension that one sides consistant actions towards others for the past 2 years is worse than someones actions over the past 24 hours, or week, or 2 weeks. Push people for a year, and pretty soon they start pushing back.

Edit:

i am a hypocrite because i didn't call out past crimes when my nation did not exist? please, give me a break.

i dont think i can argue with you anymore. debates are fun and all, but it is mighty late to be wasting my time with someone who cannot scrap together a coherent argument for the life of him.

good night.

No, again that is not why you are a hypocrite.

You are saying Karma is bad and speaking out against Karma for their actions this war.

In terms of harshness, the total terms for the surrendering Hegemony alliances combined do not equal the most lenient terms (aside from the rare instances of white peace) in any one war the Hegemony has been in for one of the surrendering alliances.

Hegemony has performed many more atrocities, and yet you seem intent on speaking out against Karma for issuing incredibly lenient terms throughout this entire war. Look at the actions of both sides, and not just in this war, but in the past 2 or 3 years, and you will begin to see a pattern of behavior for a few alliances, who are now known as "Hegemony".

The actions of Hegemony alliances in the past have been horrid. To compare and even condemn and speak out against Karma's actions this war is fine if you also speak out against Hegemony alliances and their behavior to put these terms into perspective.

Not doing so when I have gone to the effort of explaining examples of what the Hegemony has done in the past to show you how the actions of Hegemony and Karma are completely different has done nothing for you, and you continue to view the events in this war solely in the vacuum of "Karma alliances behavior and surrender terms", conviently leaving out any reference point to past events which have set the tone of this war from the start.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Caliph

[Bolak]

Sorry to interupt the argument with a post that actually pertains to the OP and DoW and all...

Best of luck on the battlefield to The Forsaken Ones. You may be a small alliance, but you fight with alot of heart and it has been a pleasure to fight beside some of your men on our mutual front.

PC is fortunate to have such stalwart friends.

0/ TFO

much respect

[Kevin Cash]

It is TPF's treatment of both PC, and a multitude of others, that has brought this upon TPF. This goes beyond TPF/PC bilateral relations.

see now youre just making stuff up as you go. i thought this was about tpf/pc relations, when i call you out, you change the details and claim you were right the whole time. thats bull****

That is not what is making you a hypocrit, what makes you a hypocrit here is that you are ignoring what Hegemony has done, ignored what TPF has done, and instead hold karma and PC to a different, more harsh, set of standards than you do for Hegemony and TPF.

this is more bull****. 'hegemony' is not perpetuating crimes right now. i could list fan, gato, a host of items from the gga, but it doesnt matter because none of it is the here and now. only this war is here and now, and o i criticize your hypocrisy. you say you stand against injustice yet perpetuate the same injustices as the past. oh, and you might want to take note here that i hardly support every action the 'hegemony' has made. instead of making things up about me.

So how is an alliance honoring a treaty here an affront to Karma? If you are upset with the way the treaties in this war chain, you clearly haven't seen some of the more blatant betrayals in the history here.

i admit it, i laughed. youve got a great stand up routine here man. honoring treaties! haha!

What despicable actions of PC are you referring to?

The actions of one member, for one night?

the actions of every leader of pc from since its inception. thats what im referring to. pc are arrogant and hateful, full of malice and with zero sense of honor. i think it funny that you have yet to directly deny that claim i make.

ok now im really going to bed i promise

[Jens of the desert]

Sorry to interupt the argument with a post that actually pertains to the OP and DoW and all...

Best of luck on the battlefield to The Forsaken Ones. You may be a small alliance, but you fight with alot of heart and it has been a pleasure to fight beside some of your men on our mutual front.

PC is fortunate to have such stalwart friends.

0/ TFO

much respect

Thank you sir, it is much appreciated.

And kevin cash, why speak with such profound knowledge about a time you know nothing about and can therefore not put this war into context.

There is a reason for it and maybe if you were older and wiser you would know it.

[Kevin Cash]

Thank you sir, it is much appreciated.

And kevin cash, why speak with such profound knowledge about a time you know nothing about and can therefore not put this war into context.

There is a reason for it and maybe if you were older and wiser you would know it.

address my points and not the age of my nation please

also try not to contradict yourself in the same line (bolded)

ok ok i promise this is my last post for real.

[ooc]night all dont get too worked up about pretend politics... though knowing how things work round these parts thats not likely to happen [/ooc]