NPO: Better With or Without?

[James IV]

If NPO goes down, the game becomes like TE for a while with another big war every few weeks or until someone can stabilize it. I think the politics in the vacuum would be interesting to watch.

[Byron Orpheus]

I've already addressed it.

The Fall of Rome paved the way for actual innovation and invention, and eventually industrialization. And yes, the Roman Empire was based on ignorance, persecution, and war.

That is a very ethnocentric way of looking at things, not to mention that the fall of Rome also enabled the Enlightenment which in turn led to some of history's greatest atrocities.

[HeinousOne]

I voted no. I cannot think of an alliance in the game right now that the world is better off without. There might be plenty that the world wouldn't miss but I dont think it would be better off without any of them. Whether or not you dislike or like NPO, they are a major part of this world now.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

That is a very ethnocentric way of looking at things, not to mention that the fall of Rome also enabled the Enlightenment which in turn led to some of history's greatest atrocities.

The Enlightenment? That's a new one. I've heard plenty of bad things thrown at the Enlightenment, but that certainly isn't one of them.

The Enlightenment is one of the main reasons why the divine right of kings was thrown out. It's brought secular humanism (from the Renaissance) to the forefront and is the main starting point of liberal thought (democracy, guaranteed rights, equality, checks and balances, freedom of speech, etc.). It's the focal point of Nationalism.

The Enlightenment and Industrialization are, in the grand scheme of things, FAR from negative.

[Syzygy]

The question alone is not making any sense. A CN "without NPO" is not even under consideration.

[Byron Orpheus]

The Enlightenment? That's a new one. I've heard plenty of bad things thrown at the Enlightenment, but that certainly isn't one of them.

The Enlightenment is one of the main reasons why the divine right of kings was thrown out. It's brought secular humanism (from the Renaissance) to the forefront and is the main starting point of liberal thought (democracy, guaranteed rights, equality, checks and balances, freedom of speech, etc.). It's the focal point of Nationalism.

The Enlightenment and Industrialization are, in the grand scheme of things, FAR from negative.

Ah, but that is looking at things from an antiquated viewpoint. If you had bothered keeping up on modern continental philosophy you would know that the "benefits" of the Enlightenment are now being questioned by those not deluded by patriarchal, capitalist, colonial, orientalist thinking.

That democracy is the best form of government is perhaps the greatest fallacy of all; the tyranny of the majority, with lip-service paid to the minority but the withholding of any real station. As for industrialization, we see how that has worked out-- exploiting the common man so that the various social institutions can maintain their balance of power. To make matters worse, to count this you have philosophies like communism that have resulted in the deaths of tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people.

Nationalism led to fascism and Nazism, and continues to this day to be a source of strife.

[Sal Paradise]

The NPO isn't going anywhere.

[Sal Paradise]

*double post*

Take the Dark Ages discussion to the Water Cooler kthxbai.

[Uncle Stalin]

With NPO gone, tensions will arise between alliances and wars will be fought as some alliances attempt to fill the power vacuum and replace NPO as the dominant alliance in the game. This will cause all sorts of drama and make the game much more dynamic.

So yes (not necessarily disbanded, just removed from their current seat of power).

[Byron Orpheus]

*double post*

Take the Dark Ages discussion to the Water Cooler kthxbai.

This is germane to arguing his assertion that the NPO is like the Roman Empire and therefore bad.

[Isaac Wolfe]

It's a tough choice, but I'm going to have to go with 'no'.

You would.

[Ogaden]

I'm certain a poll on OWF will be highly influential in our decision making.

[Bralor]

I'm certain a poll on OWF will be highly influential in our decision making.

This is why I voted yes.

[Sal Paradise]

This is germane to arguing his assertion that the NPO is like the Roman Empire and therefore bad.

This a difference between using an analogy to make a point and derailing a topic with that analogy.

But I'm just trying to do you guys a favour.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Sal Paradise

[Darvel]

I like the Rome argument. Peace, prosperity and lack of anything remotely interesting happening are hallmarks of Pax Romana and (oh how pretentious) Pax Pacifica. The Romans, while they did things pretty well, were relentlessly dull. They had wars, sure, and they conducted themselves in them well enough that they were on top for x number of years, but it wasn't through genius. Like NPO, they took other people's ideas (remember when LUE were mocked for going into peace mode? When FAN were seen as stupid for keeping money on hand? Remember when infra was God?) and maybe sometimes refined them. They didn't take big risks - and too right - real Roman people could have died had they overstretched themselves. They fought enemies who were too small to have any lasting impact: barbarians, fledgling blocs. Um. Archon.

And when it came time for it to come back at them, when larger and more organised enemies took them down when they could rally enough people to their cause, the only cost was stability. Objectively, this is an exciting time. In the real world, I would never wish it. Real people would have to die. A lot of them.

This is not real life. Nation leaders move to another alliance or quit, grudges form, turmoil...does whatever turmoil is wont to do. It probably ferments or something, I don't know. The removal of the world's dominant alliance of 3 years can only have a positive affect on the game. Their bullying attitudes have for too long been reinforced by the idea that they are invincible; now no one is invincible. This is the world's chance to show that, well and truly.

Should Karma be as bad, worse, it doesn't matter. The little man will have history on his side, when he is bullied, he can tell his friends that something can be done, he can refer to April and May 2009 as the time when Cybernations became a game worth playing again. Alliances won't be so scared to stand against the status quo when it offends them, as they have been for so long.

I'll declare an interest: I don't like NPO. Their dominance has attracted people who are frankly !@#$%bags, who felt they could be rude and disrespectful to me because I wouldn't be able to stop them. Maybe I can't, but now maybe someone can. These people will always exist, but revolution such as this can strip them of their power and security.

And that is why I think CN would be better without the New Pacific Order.

[Nobama]

NPO = Rome

Post Karma War = Dark Ages

Dark Ages = awesome

I can't wait for the sea of wars that will be the next few months

EDIT: Okay I thought up this metaphor first. Ask airme.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Nobama

[Timeline]

NPO you are right, when your gone we will miss you, NO longer will small alliances have to worry about what they post on OWF, no more will the likes of FAN and VoX who want change, be forced in to peace mode.

We will miss you, how ever that will soon fade when the enjoyment and love of the game restore.

[Isaac Wolfe]

NPO you are right, when your gone we will miss you, NO longer will small alliances have to worry about what they post on OWF, no more will the likes of FAN and VoX who want change, be forced in to peace mode.

We will miss you, how ever that will soon fade when the enjoyment and love of the game restore.

You always seem to have the right idea.

[A Soviet Attack]

I'm certain a poll on OWF will be highly influential in our decision making.

It has nothing to do with your decision making. Thanks for the party line, though.

[MisterShadow]

It certainly is interesting indeed.

NPO has always been "the one to hate".

I used to watch in GWII (Legion wasnt involved) Ivan's, Dilbers, Zhadums, President Pierce, everyone I could think of and get a bit of glee as their nations were destroyed.

Then I realized that this is exactly what makes the game fun, watching the destruction. Really lets be honest this game is boring, without war things are no fun. I hope that this war does not see the disbandment of NPO or another long term resistance (since i think NPO wouldnt disband). But lets get the curbstomping dynamcis out.

The other thing is to those not in NPO it is a different culture than anywhere I have been before, I mean honestly how many other alliances have even gone ahead and made their flags into rl ones?

Edited April 25, 2009 by Mr.AdmiralX

[Magnum T. Gundraw]

No.

It might be interesting without NPO dominance but you'd miss us if we weren't here at all.

An NPO that isn't on top isn't really an NPO at all.

[Trout]

I say good riddance, NPO.

[Richard Rahl]

Meh, as much as I may dislike some of them, it's going to just end up the same way it was before: someone is going to replace NPO.

This. There will always be an "NPO". And it's already shaping up that way.

[Canik]

Rarely would I say CN is better off without an alliance. The more the merrier.

I hope NPO is given peace and a chance to rebuild. It'll make things more interesting.

[Bellisus]

NPO is like Darth banned member. Luke Skywalker would be on Tatooine killing womp rats without the Empire to fight.

This game would suck balls without them. We want to see them overcome, just like we want Luke to defeat his father.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Bellisus