An Ultimatum Expires

[Triyun]

OOC: Haphazard deployments mean poorly-fought battles, which mean lost wars. A heads-up.

OOC: He had already deployed in another thread, as had most everyone else I believe.

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

OOC: He had already deployed in another thread, as had most everyone else I believe.

OOC: what makes you think that was a reply to a specific person? I'm just saying: poor planning means a poorly fought war means a lost war. It's directed at everyone, including myself, and implies nothing.

[Mergerberger II]

OOC: just about everything Triyun posted on behalf of mergerberger II is godmode. I think it unreasonable to post the results of operations without giving one’s opponent the opportunity to RP resistance, or at least a response. IMHO, this should hold true even if your opponent is a puissant of a nation. Jest sayin’.

OOC: No, it is not, and here is why.

An attack at 4 AM on a nation in a state of turmoil who would be, by every single standard that exists, trying to quell rebellions and establish rule of the new government. Additionally, I have complete air supremacy over Nikonov because he does not even have an airforce. Triyun moved in before me with his navy, and any sort of aircraft you have on those carriers would be engaged with him, to think otherwise is illogical. My navy deployed in the same area would also be working against your allied navy as well. Soldiers would not be in the Shandong Peninsula, for one it is not easily defensible and two, as I said earlier, it is a nation in turmoil. Most of the soldiers would undoubtedly be at Beijing or in the nearby area, or putting down Royalist rebellions, putting down rebellions in their newly acquired territory, and carrying out the will of the Communist leader. I do not assume that all of my soldiers are still alive, but due to massive naval, air, and technological advantage over Nikonov's troops, I would lose few while killing most enemies.

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

OOC: No, it is not, and here is why.

An attack at 4 AM on a nation in a state of turmoil who would be, by every single standard that exists, trying to quell rebellions and establish rule of the new government. Additionally, I have complete air supremacy over Nikonov because he does not even have an airforce. Triyun moved in before me with his navy, and any sort of aircraft you have on those carriers would be engaged with him, to think otherwise is illogical. My navy deployed in the same area would also be working against your allied navy as well. Soldiers would not be in the Shandong Peninsula, for one it is not easily defensible and two, as I said earlier, it is a nation in turmoil. Most of the soldiers would undoubtedly be at Beijing or in the nearby area, or putting down Royalist rebellions, putting down rebellions in their newly acquired territory, and carrying out the will of the Communist leader. I do not assume that all of my soldiers are still alive, but due to massive naval, air, and technological advantage over Nikonov's troops, I would lose few while killing most enemies.

OOC: All the same, occupying vast swathes of land in less than a day is, IMHO, ASB, and doesn't bode well for the realism of other wars you may or may not choose to conduct.

[V The King]

OOC: Merger, I'm not going to contest that you have overwhelming Naval and Aerial support, but still, Nik was not given a chance yet to roleplay his military positioning and movements - for all we know, he could be suppressing rebels in Wuhai (it's a major city after all) and have major presence there. You must also consider that there might be civilian resistance (there will be no of this "my citizens were born2kill" crap, but many civilians do fight back in face of foreign invasion).

Hence, let Nikonov RP his movements before casualties are declared. Having superior technology and forces does not mean instant victory, most definitively not ('sup Afghanistan).

EDIT: I'm also taking a look at iamthey's missiles... each containing 20 warheads? :wtc:

Edited February 27, 2009 by V The King

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

EDIT: I'm also taking a look at iamthey's missiles... each containing 20 warheads? :wtc:

OOC: IIRC the Soviets had ICBMs with 10-20 warheads (the Americans had 6-12), due to the greater lift of their boosters. It's possible, but more likely if he's using equipment derived from the Russian tradition.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Sovyet Gelibolu

[iamthey]

OOC: They are not nukes, we are just talking about conventional explosive nothing more than a bomb a few rockets for guidance and a computer chip. The United states is presently using technology that can lift ten full scale nuclear warheads each with the capacity to at the very least destroy a large portion of a city. I think its fairly reasonable that fifty or why not twenty conventional explosive warheads could be lifted with a bit of tinkering. They would be less complex than an actual nuclear warhead allowing them to be more compact. Additionally we are talking about present day so if the soviets could produce ICBM's capable of lifting 20 warheads of nuclear capacity I think today the technology would be significantly improved. Finally its basically just another way to describe a bunch of smart bombs or cruise missiles. I don't seeing it really being that much of a balance issue as those are already essentially limitless.

Edited February 27, 2009 by iamthey

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

OOC: They are not nukes, we are just talking about conventional explosive nothing more than a bomb a few rockets for guidance and a computer chip. The United states is presently using technology that can lift ten full scale nuclear warheads each with the capacity to at the very least destroy a large portion of a city. I think its fairly reasonable that fifty or why not twenty conventional explosive warheads could be lifted with a bit of tinkering. They would be less complex than an actual nuclear warhead allowing them to be more compact. Additionally we are talking about present day so if the soviets could produce ICBM's capable of lifting 20 warheads of nuclear capacity I think today the technology would be significantly improved. Finally its basically just another way to describe a bunch of smart bombs or cruise missiles. I don't seeing it really being that much of a balance issue as those are already essentially limitless.

OOC: apologies. I read "Two of the nuclear class submarines sitting off the coast of Sumatra launch ten of their Devastator Missiles" and my brain didn't register the words "conventional explosive" a sentence later.

My character, however, will continue to say M-S has been nuked unless another character corrects him. At which point, he'll bluster for a while and back down shamefacedly while another character makes his excuses.

[V The King]

OOC: IIRC the Soviets had ICBMs with 10-20 warheads (the Americans had 6-12), due to the greater lift of their boosters. It's possible, but more likely if he's using equipment derived from the Russian tradition.

OOC: I'm aware they could go for that limit (which is quite pushing it...), but I'm trying to aim to match realism with IC fairness and realism plus in-game coherence. Plus, something that is very seldom considered by most, if not all players around here, is the huge cost of deploying advanced weaponry (e.g. each Peacekeeper missile costs $20 Million - $ 70 Million (differing costs). Launching 50 of them already equals to billions spent in the war effort. While nations are not expected to roleplay the consequences of spending so much in war, the defending player is always expected to roleplay the damage dealt against him - hence, if someone says he impacted x warheads on his nation, then the defender has to RP y damage, but the attacker is not expected to RP any consequences at all for using a sheer amount of such expensive, high-end weapons.

Additionally, I have traditionally held the view that MIRV's are a somewhat cheap way to bypass in-game limitations - want to wreck the other nation, but only have fifty missiles? No worry, claim to have god-knows-how-many warheads per missile (which may not be realistic at times)! Though they do exist, we have no consensus on how much MIRV's each missile should have - if there should be any at all.

I am aiming trying to aim for fairness here while trying to maintain realism. Maybe I am making too much of an issue over too little? I don't know, we'll see...

Edited February 27, 2009 by V The King

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

OOC: I'm aware they could go for that limit (which is quite pushing it...), but I'm trying to aim to match realism with IC fairness and realism plus in-game coherence. Plus, something that is very seldom considered by most, if not all players around here, is the huge cost of deploying advanced weaponry (e.g. each Peacekeeper missile costs $20 Million - $ 70 Million (differing costs). Launching 50 of them already equals to billions spent in the war effort. While nations are not expected to roleplay the consequences of spending so much in war, the defending player is always expected to roleplay the damage dealt against him - hence, if someone says he impacted x warheads on his nation, then the defender has to RP y damage, but the attacker is not expected to RP any consequences at all for using a sheer amount of such expensive, high-end weapons.

Additionally, I have traditionally held the view that MIRV's are a somewhat cheap way to bypass in-game limitations - want to wreck the other nation, but only have fifty missiles? No worry, claim to have god-knows-how-many warheads per missile (which may not be realistic at times)! Though they do exist, we have no consensus on how much MIRV's each missile should have - if there should be any at all.

I am aiming trying to aim for fairness here while trying to maintain realism. Maybe I am making too much of an issue over too little? I don't know, we'll see...

OOC: I had thought that these were nuclear weapons at the time I posted (see earlier post), so considerations of realism had ceased to be an issue for me

[iamthey]

OOC: You make fair points, though I don't think the IG limitations actually apply to cruise missiles and bombs as they are so readily used in RL that it would be ridiculous to apply them. I mean 50 cruise missile would be in a total war completely inadequate. Not to mention you are not really limited by the game anyway as you can just re-buy used weaponry. Moreover such weaponry is really only meant to be applied once or twice in a war as after the initial advantage of surprise is lost there is no longer a reason to use them. Why use special ICBM's and stealth warheads when the enemy already is aware of what I am doing; I might as well just bomb them conventionally as it is more cost effective. Additionally to compensate for the extreme cost I myself intended to not use this weaponry excessively or at least wait a while as the submarines would need to be rearmed. However considering my infa level I think I am within the range to at least apply this technology once or twice within a reasonable period of time.

Not to complain but usually people just write; "X country fired multiple salvo's of long range cruise missiles at strategic targets within Y country." It seems as though when you actually take the time to rp it out and specify then people start criticizing even though both have the same relative effect. Also apologies Sovyet Gelibolu I should have been more clear; I was afraid someone might see the words warhead and nuclear in the same paragraph and think I had done something insane .

Edited February 27, 2009 by iamthey

[V The King]

OOC: Fair enough. Keep in mind, though, that the more warheads packed in a missile, the weaker each of them are - so a non-MIRV missile will be able to pack a much higher bunch in a single blow, though it will, of course, target less things.

Also, for the sake of clarification, the number of ICBMs equals to the number of in-game CM's.

Dropping the issue, roleplay cool!

[Sir Keshav IV]

*Private*

The Republic Moved into DefCon2. The Parliament was waiting for all the forces to be ready for war. They decided to give the soldiers a day with their family before leaving to Eastern China via Burma. During this day's time the Parliament had to get permissions from Burma to let these troops move through their lands.

*Classified to Burma*

We request permission to allow troops to move through your sovereign lands to help the United States of China in defense of Asia. We do not expect to stay long but only move through Northern Parts of Burma as the Eastern areas of India are very mountainous and dangerous.

Please Reply,

Republic of India.

*Private to USC*

Our troops shall begin moving to USC tomorrow at the crack of dawn. Give them some time before they reach China. They shall be on foot or in Transport Vehicles and we expect it to take some time before the majority reach. About 50,000 shall arrive their faster as they shall be airlifted.

Regards,

-Tommy Lee Jones.

[Sumeragi]

"This is agree able. We will migrate closer to our allies int he Americas, and pledge to work towards better, more constructive relations with you."

"As sign of our willingness for peace, all of the Eastern Army except for 5,000 men will head back to Magadan. We will continue the talks after the current war is over."

[Cody Seb]

*Classified to Burma*

We request permission to allow troops to move through your sovereign lands to help the United States of China in defense of Asia. We do not expect to stay long but only move through Northern Parts of Burma as the Eastern areas of India are very mountainous and dangerous.

Please Reply,

Republic of India.

*Classified Response*

Permission Granted.

-Sr. General Minh Kong

/end Classified.

[comrade nikonov]

OOC: Busy with Forensics, ROAMIN', School, and Projects.

IC: The Northern Soviet Militia crumples against the strikes of the USC.

[Mergerberger II]

OOC: Merger, I'm not going to contest that you have overwhelming Naval and Aerial support, but still, Nik was not given a chance yet to roleplay his military positioning and movements - for all we know, he could be suppressing rebels in Wuhai (it's a major city after all) and have major presence there. You must also consider that there might be civilian resistance (there will be no of this "my citizens were born2kill" crap, but many civilians do fight back in face of foreign invasion).

Hence, let Nikonov RP his movements before casualties are declared. Having superior technology and forces does not mean instant victory, most definitively not ('sup Afghanistan).

EDIT: I'm also taking a look at iamthey's missiles... each containing 20 warheads? :wtc:

OOC: Quite right. I had originally intended to just occupy the cities and then let him strike back, but it would seem to have slipped my mind.

Although with his last post, it seems like it happened anyway?

[comrade nikonov]

I has got a second, so:

IC: Casualties: OVAR 9000! Civilian Casualties: OVAR 90,000! You killed 16 Kennys, you !@#$%^&*!

[Triyun]

OOC: Nikonov respond civilly or don't at all.

[Cody Seb]

With the war in the North all but complete, the Burmese military began routing troops unnecessary to the peacekeeping force back into Thailand, where a situation could be brewing.

---

Singapore

The Burmese Expeditionary Force in nigh its entirety had reached the outskirts of Singapore, an important trade and cultural city-state. A large array of APC's and tanks waited for the call to action. Helicopters buzzed about above the formations, which were hidden in the jungles. A message was sent to the Comintern holders of the city:

By Order of Sr. General Minh Kong, Chairman of the State Peace and Development Committee, this message is hereby relayed to the Comintern Forces/Governing Parties stationed in Singapore.

Message Begin///

To the Presiding Comintern Parties Stationed in Singapore,

You are to remove yourselves from the penninsula as soon as possible. Should you choose to do so, no shot will be fired, and no unprovoked violence will befall you. However, should you fail to evacuate the city, you will be met with the full force of the Burmese Expeditionary Force.

I'm sure you would like to know our reasoning. At this point it is irrelevant, as I'm sure you already know. Please respond with haste, we would like to avoid conlict.

Sr. General Minh Kong

///End Message

Classified

With the Burmese Air Force having returned home, they were in prime striking position for the small city. If Comintern decided to continue its rash of colonialization, it would not be pretty.

[mastab]

OOC: No, it is not, and here is why.

An attack at 4 AM on a nation in a state of turmoil who would be, by every single standard that exists, trying to quell rebellions and establish rule of the new government. Additionally, I have complete air supremacy over Nikonov because he does not even have an airforce. Triyun moved in before me with his navy, and any sort of aircraft you have on those carriers would be engaged with him, to think otherwise is illogical. My navy deployed in the same area would also be working against your allied navy as well. Soldiers would not be in the Shandong Peninsula, for one it is not easily defensible and two, as I said earlier, it is a nation in turmoil. Most of the soldiers would undoubtedly be at Beijing or in the nearby area, or putting down Royalist rebellions, putting down rebellions in their newly acquired territory, and carrying out the will of the Communist leader. I do not assume that all of my soldiers are still alive, but due to massive naval, air, and technological advantage over Nikonov's troops, I would lose few while killing most enemies.

OOC: Sort of like how the US had a great technological and numerical advantage over the Iraqi army, which had numerous issues in the North to deal with and was still putting itself back together from the last war? And it took one month for dominance to be gained over that country. Unless you're invading Luxembourg or something, you can't conquer a country in one day.

IC: The vessels damaged in the initial attack are being escorted by the ships lucky enough to remain relatively unscathed to the Sea of Cortez where they will be repaired. The vessels crippled are being evacuated and left for retrieval at a later point.

The counterattack was intended to not only match but to completely dwarf the ferocity of the USC and UK attack on the Comintern forces in Asia. One Zapata class destroyer docked in a PDFA harbor left for the Falklands. Once there, it sent out a radio broadcast instructing the Falklands to surrender. It would cease fire after one hour to wait for a response, then it would resume for two hours and wait, then three, and so on. It began launching depleted uranium shells on the regional capital, Stanley. Both anti-aircraft guns and missiles awaited attacks from the sky and anti-ship/sub missiles were at the ready. An RoOj radar ship carrying a 360-degree phase array radar tracker and several anti-aircraft weapons of its own accomponied.

In the North, ten squadrons of fighters escorting three squadrons of bombers are intercepting convoys Northeast of Canada in an attempt to weaken Greenland.

In the Sea of Cortez, the 21 ships not attacked by the Chinese as well as several dozen support ships and 100,000 marines gathered for a full counter-attack. None but the supreme command are aware of just where this attack will be launched.

Edited February 28, 2009 by mastab

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

OOC: when I say "it seemed" in the context of an intelligence report, it means that my people think they know something. It is not necessarily correct, and is indeed probably wrong.

IC: Resolution Island was a fine forward base. However, despite the presence of significant naval and air assets, both NAAC and GLCR, on the island, despite their regular patrols, and despite the fact that the United Kingdom had made no move as yet to seize the island, it was deemed too risky to mass a substantial marine, infantry, and bomber force there. The presence of so many fighter squadrons there was also a hindrance; Resolution Island was small, and could barely support the ground crews, pilots, longshoremen, naval crews, administrators, and guarding infantry, as well as their equipment. For these reasons, and because Resolution Island screened it from easy reconnaissance or attack, Akpatok Island was chosen as the staging point for the invasion of Greenland.

The plan was that the strategic and stealth bombers, plus the landing ships for the ground forces, their supplies, and their armor would be based on Akpatok, where they’d train in amphibious cold-weather conditions. When they were ready, they would depart from Akpatok, rendezvous with the warships, strike fighters, and fighter escorts on Resolution Island, and seize the southern area of Greenland before the United Kingdom could react. Preparations had been made by sending the strike fighters of both the NAAC and the GLCR, and the submarines the GLCR had in theater, to interdict convoys between the more self-supporting Iceland and Greenland, which depended on the former for supplies.

It was hoped that these measures were taking an effect on Greenland’s fuel supplies, but there wasn’t a real way of being sure. The Cybershades had been feverishly at work repelling barbed United Kingdom attacks on the computer systems, spending most of their time re-encrypting data they felt was vulnerable. This had left little time for offensive intelligence action over the Net, and what information there was came from the pilots. These reported what seemed to be a cessation of operations on the part of Greenland’s major power stations, but this could just mean that the Brits were saving their supplies for the critical moment; it didn’t say anything about the level of their supplies.

It was hoped, and less-than-reliable intelligence from the PDFA and NAAC seemed to point tentatively to this conclusion, that the UK didn’t have substantial naval forces in and around the Falkland Islands. What was known only to Commissioner MacKenzie (OOC: he hasn’t told anyone, he hasn’t written it down or saved it on any hard drives; the only thing that’s in the invasion prep directive is that the order will come when it will come, and to train until it does), as he would give the order himself, was that as soon as the NAAC reported significant naval intervention from the north in their operations around the Falklands, the invasion of Greenland would commence.

[Cody Seb]

Singapore

A second message was relayed to the city of Singapore.

Commanders of Singapore,

If you still remain in the city, you will note that in one hour, military operations will commence. You must stand down to leave peacefully. This is your final warning.

Sr. General Minh Kong

OOC: 1 RL hour from now.

Edited February 28, 2009 by Cody Seb

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

OOC: I'm confused...do any of us actually have troops stationed there?

[Cody Seb]

OOC: I'm confused...do any of us actually have troops stationed there?

OOC: Unless anyone's going to god mod, no. Nikonov claimed it bu never did anything.