The Vektarian Empire is no more.

[Justinian the Mighty]

OOC: They were not extremely aggressive, they just played with the common phrase, "The best defense is a good offense" or something. And what would you expect, they were kinda disliked around the world. If someone is outside your door with a sledgehammer, wouldn't you keep your shotgun within reach?

ooc: they were hated because they were aggressive and ultra-nationalist.

Also I edited my last post with a response to sargun.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Justinian the Mighty

[Gebiv]

The only aggression we see on the world stage, has a tendency to be from a Rebel Army that seems eager to play the obstructionist to a new world order setting in since the end of the last war. We wonder why your nation is so eager to support heightening of rhetoric around the world.

I have had private conversations with the leaders of the Greater German Empire, I remain convinced they are a strong partner for peace in the world. This peace cannot come through demobilization unfortunately. Indeed there is a shadow haunting Europe, that is of those who wish to see the old order restored. These people desire for the Nordland to be capable of threatening periphery states.

This is why it is important that the Ferrous Pacific, Grand Army of Europe, in coordination with the new regimes and the RUSSIANs maintain the peace around the world. The United Francoist Empire stands committed to work with our security partners in these groupings.

"While we see peace something to work forward to, we do not see any reason why those three groups you have listed must be the ones maintaining peace.

"We also don't appreciate direct accusations of that form towards our allies in the Rebel Army.

"New Order, Old Order... Either way we're talking about some form of order.

"As a final note, for those willing to bring up our previous conflict with Vektaria, that is old blood. It is old blood as our war with Martens is old blood. As you can note from all of the statues in his likeness in a few of our cities, we've grown past that."

[Sargun II]

ic: What would you do if a bunch of soldiers were lined up at your border shooting artillery shells so close to your border towns? Gebiv should have known better than that. What did they expect the Germans to do invite their army to Berlin for tea?

I would, first of all, attempt to at least talk to find out who was destroying my bridges. Second, I would not prepare for an all-out invasion when all other intelligence, hell, even a quick satellite picture could confirm there was no border buildup.

And third, I would not disregard all diplomacy, invade a neighbor and then withdraw and sign a hasty peace pact.

[Justinian the Mighty]

ooc: correct me if I’m wrong, but I recall reading that there was over 220,000 Gebivan soldiers in Switzerland alone to kill 300+ RV nut jobs.

ic: If Slavorussia believes our neighbors are planning to invade us then we would try diplomacy, but when our neighbors armies are already shooting into our boarders we will take the fight to them, push them back, then contact their government. Neither side can claim to be entirely innocent, but when your homeland is in danger you strike first and ask questions later.

[Gebiv]

OOC: Well, you'd do the same if you had a new nation conducting military drills on your border, you don't have a treaty with them, and you know they have Mutual Aggression with a nation you have horrible relations with, while you have just deported all of their citizens there. In addition, you also have you greatest commander commander who knows the area like the back of his hand, and everything else is pretty calm. To top it off, you have citizens in that region and allies feeling uneasy. Needless to say, you'd probably do the same thing.

Edited February 8, 2009 by Gebiv

[Triyun]

"While we see peace something to work forward to, we do not see any reason why those three groups you have listed must be the ones maintaining peace.

"We also don't appreciate direct accusations of that form towards our allies in the Rebel Army.

"New Order, Old Order... Either way we're talking about some form of order.

"As a final note, for those willing to bring up our previous conflict with Vektaria, that is old blood. It is old blood as our war with Martens is old blood. As you can note from all of the statues in his likeness in a few of our cities, we've grown past that."

Then the Rebel Army should not seek to position itself as the obstructor every time something occurs in the World. It seems to have chosen to place itself in the opposition, no one has forced that.

As for why those groups are listed, it seems that they are the main ones who are actually interested in Peace in Eurasia rather than confrontation.

I would, first of all, attempt to at least talk to find out who was destroying my bridges. Second, I would not prepare for an all-out invasion when all other intelligence, hell, even a quick satellite picture could confirm there was no border buildup.

And third, I would not disregard all diplomacy, invade a neighbor and then withdraw and sign a hasty peace pact.

The fact that there were so many forces on the Gebivian side of the border suggests otherwise. The Vektarians in my view acted perfectly justly. To compare their actions to that of the Nordlanders is simply silly.

[Sargun II]

ooc: correct me if I’m wrong, but I recall reading that there was over 220,000 Gebivan soldiers in Switzerland alone to kill 300+ RV nut jobs.

ic: If Slavorussia believes our neighbors are planning to invade us then we would try diplomacy, but when our neighbors armies are already shooting into our boarders we will take the fight to them, push them back, then contact their government. Neither side can claim to be entirely innocent, but when your homeland is in danger you strike first and ask questions later.

ooc: correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall reading that Gebiv told Vektaria what they were doing and why they were doing it and even requested access to Vektarian airspace.

[Gebiv]

"What part of old blood doesn't make sense to anyone here?

"How has the Rebel Army chosen it's place as an obstructor and caused negative results? Do enlighten me.

"Peace through the ability to overwhelm in confrontation, perhaps."

[Justinian the Mighty]

ooc: correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall reading that Gebiv told Vektaria what they were doing and why they were doing it and even requested access to Vektarian airspace.

ooc: I recall reading that too, but you don't shoot into another country and expect them to say "sure you can bomb my nation and ill ignore it." Gebiv should have requested VE assistance, rather than going all rambo and deploying 220,000 soldiers and im not even sure they have that many soldiers to begin with. Gebiv started out right but then messed it up by not asking for assistance.

OOC: Well, you'd do the same if you had a new nation conducting military drills on your border, you don't have a treaty with them, and you know they have Mutual Aggression with a nation you have horrible relations with, while you have just deported all of their citizens there. In addition, you also have you greatest commander commander who knows the area like the back of his hand, and everything else is pretty calm. To top it off, you have citizens in that region and allies feeling uneasy. Needless to say, you'd probably do the same thing.

ooc: I probably wouldn't

Edited February 8, 2009 by Justinian the Mighty

[Triyun]

Its unbecoming of the Gebivians to act so deliberately naive about the situation. Don't assume I can't recognize such things when I see them, we have done it before and are frankly far better at it than you.

[Gebiv]

ooc: I recall reading that too, but you don't shoot into another country and expect them to say "sure you can bomb my nation and ill ignore it." Gebiv should have requested VE assistance, rather than going all rambo and deploying 220,000 soldiers and im not even sure they have that many soldiers to begin with. Gebiv started out right but then messed it up by not asking for assistance.

ooc: I probably wouldn't

OOC: I simply love how people fail at getting the facts right in that situation. Not a single soldier of mine crossed the border, if that wasn't clear. We did request assistance. But, as I said, it really doesn't matter now as it's old blood.

IC: We'll just assume your insults on the Rebel Army are baseless, then. Good to have that settled. ((OOC: That was at Triyun))

Edited February 8, 2009 by Gebiv

[Cody Seb]

"We find the sheer arrogance perpetuating out of Gebiv to be unsettling."

[Sargun II]

ooc: I recall reading that too, but you don't shoot into another country and expect them to say "sure you can bomb my nation and ill ignore it." Gebiv should have requested VE assistance, rather than going all rambo and deploying 220,000 soldiers and im not even sure they have that many soldiers to begin with. Gebiv started out right but then messed it up by not asking for assistance.

OOC: Actually, they did. (oh snap)

IC: "Arrogance?" A mighty lul ensued.

[Justinian the Mighty]

OOC: I simply love how people fail at getting the facts right in that situation. Not a single soldier of mine crossed the border, if that wasn't clear. We did request assistance. But, as I said, it really doesn't matter now as it's old blood.

IC: We'll just assume your insults on the Rebel Army are baseless, then. Good to have that settled. ((OOC: That was at Triyun))

ooc: No, no no its not old blood, its still fresh. perhaps if you actually read you'd see I never accused your soldiers of crossing the border. I said you fired over the border which could very well have happened. Before you go insulting people and complaining about not getting their facts straight maybe you should get yours straight first. Thank you and good bye.

Edit: asking for assistance tracking down then arresting or killing rebels is different than asking "can i uze bomz on ur nation pl0x"

Edited February 8, 2009 by Justinian the Mighty

[Sargun II]

ooc: No, no no its not old blood, its still fresh. perhaps if you actually read you'd see I never accused your soldiers of crossing the border. I said you fired over the border which could very well have happened. Before you go insulting people and complaining about not getting their facts straight maybe you should get yours straight first. Thank you and good bye.

Edit: asking for assistance tracking down then arresting or killing rebels is different than asking "can i uze bomz on ur nation pl0x"

OOC:

1. "push them back" = you're pushing them back across the border. oh hey, look, I used your own words to refute something you said

2. don't flame

[Triyun]

"We find the sheer arrogance perpetuating out of Gebiv to be unsettling."

As do we, its good that they show their true nature now, rather than later though.

[Gebiv]

ooc: No, no no its not old blood, its still fresh. perhaps if you actually read you'd see I never accused your soldiers of crossing the border. I said you fired over the border which could very well have happened. Before you go insulting people and complaining about not getting their facts straight maybe you should get yours straight first. Thank you and good bye.

Edit: asking for assistance tracking down then arresting or killing rebels is different than asking "can i uze bomz on ur nation pl0x"

OOC: I'm aware of that. I was putting that point out there at the same time because people don't make the same error they've made over and over. Apologies for making it seem like I was responding to a point you didn't make. And the request for assistance was made with no response, if you've missed it.

IC: Well, before we start a war over who insulted the other, I think I'll take my leave. I'd much prefer peace than to fight a war over honor. I have no desire to alter the outcome of the small war with Vektaria, and I assume neither do they.

[Rebel Virginia]

The Republic of Rebel Virginia can only congratulation our former Vektarian friends on their reorganization into this new entity. May it bring nothing but prosperity to your land. Additionally, we will refrain from discussing the Barbarian State of Gebiv, as all that need be said about them has already been said.

[Northrend]

The Kingdom of Northrend recognizes this new state and wishes it well.

[Justinian the Mighty]

OOC:

1. "push them back" = you're pushing them back across the border. oh hey, look, I used your own words to refute something you said

2. don't flame

1. Pushing someone back doesn't mean that they crossed the border at all you could be forcing them away from the border.

2. When other people bait or flame me its ok but when I respond to their flame then I become the bad guy. That makes perfect sense, very nice.

[Mirreille]

The fact that there were so many forces on the Gebivian side of the border suggests otherwise. The Vektarians in my view acted perfectly justly. To compare their actions to that of the Nordlanders is simply silly.

ooc: I recall reading that too, but you don't shoot into another country and expect them to say "sure you can bomb my nation and ill ignore it." Gebiv should have requested VE assistance, rather than going all rambo and deploying 220,000 soldiers and im not even sure they have that many soldiers to begin with. Gebiv started out right but then messed it up by not asking for assistance.

Obviously both your nations have poor intelligence capabilities in southern euorope, as Vektaria made a PUBLIC announcement of their deploying some 350,000 troops to said border region shortly before the events in question occurred, yet this fact seems to have espcaped your notice. I am sure Gebiv's large deployment was as much in response to that fact as it was to the actual clashes on the border. I could not help but feel the two events were directly related, and I sure that thought passed through Gebiv's mind as well. I'm not going to take another dig at Vektaria over a matter that has been settled, but communications between them and Gebiv during that whole affair were poor until the leaders communicated directly.

(Gebiv @ Feb 8 2009, 04:42 PM)

OOC: Well, you'd do the same if you had a new nation conducting military drills on your border, you don't have a treaty with them, and you know they have Mutual Aggression with a nation you have horrible relations with, while you have just deported all of their citizens there. In addition, you also have you greatest commander commander who knows the area like the back of his hand, and everything else is pretty calm. To top it off, you have citizens in that region and allies feeling uneasy. Needless to say, you'd probably do the same thing.

ooc: I probably wouldn't

Enlighten us please, as to what you think would have been a better plan, I'm sure we're dying to know.

[Triyun]

If the Vektarians wanted to invade, they would not have announced the deployment, and they would have been in Rome by now.

[Justinian the Mighty]

Enlighten us please, as to what you think would have been a better plan, I'm sure we're dying to know.

ooc: I'm not sure why everyone is using this snooty "Im better than you" tone with me but I'd like it to stop. Now that I've said that, I believe if you've read what I've been saying all along you'd know what I would do.

[Rebel Virginia]

OOC: Can all of you please cut with the OOC here? We all seem to be making IC statements here. No reason to take any of this personally. In real politics elitism, hypocrisy, and snottiness exist, and therefore will also exist IC. Try not to take any of this personally. There is no reason IC politics needs to be argued OOC. Just my two cents. Thank you.

[Subtleknifewielder]

OOC: Can all of you please cut with the OOC here? We all seem to be making IC statements here. No reason to take any of this personally. In real politics elitism, hypocrisy, and snottiness exist, and therefore will also exist IC. Try not to take any of this personally. There is no reason IC politics needs to be argued OOC. Just my two cents. Thank you.

OOC: Hear hear!