Lord n00b II Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) According to your NS number given in the OP, you are under 50% of my NS (29K to 15K, approximately). We are also approximately the same age (I started just after the UJW). Here is my nation link. You are welcome to test your theories on war and building anytime. I promise not to send any mushroom clouds your way. DISCLAIMER: You or any other nation that does declare war on me runs the risk of catching me in a bad mood, and me encouraging my government to just turn your nation into a crater. Also, I may have some buddies of mine come help me get you into anarchy. Why? Because that's my secret to war, having friends and allies by my side. And yes, I saw that you were a POW in the OP. I personally am not a fan of people who duck out early in war in a game instead of sticking it out. EDIT: For clarity and grammar. Edited July 20, 2008 by Call Me A n00b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Shh... don't tell him that , it isn't like we have sides anymore. Everyone trying to be on the bigger side lessens the chance of a war to begin with thus making this thread pointless. Of course breakups happen, but it is getting more and more unlikely. Fight for what you believe in. Find a good place that shares your beliefs and keep learning. This game updates a good bit so it helps to stay active and on top of things. Asking questions , just means you're on the right track.EDIT: Also get your forum name changed to reflect your Nation Ruler or Nation Name. Lol I know, every one does it now. PS. Ruler: LeVentNoir Call Me A n00b, I started 24 days before you, and i have an extra 20kNS, I think this proves your point again. Eco build win much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverHawk Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Lol I know, every one does it now. PS. Ruler: LeVentNoirCall Me A n00b, I started 24 days before you, and i have an extra 20kNS, I think this proves your point again. Eco build win much better. Notice how he has a Manhatten Project Wonder. He spent 100 million on it so he could have a nuclear stockpile. That's why you have an extra 20K NS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Mardle Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 Notice how he has a Manhatten Project Wonder. He spent 100 million on it so he could have a nuclear stockpile. That's why you have an extra 20K NS. And yet LeVentNoir has 20k more NS and a nuclear stockpile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 And yet LeVentNoir has 20k more NS and a nuclear stockpile. argument won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 When I first started CN, I was recruited by an alliance that provided me great information on how to build my economy. They came up with great incentives and bonuses to help us grow. The model for development however was the same...build your infrastructure to grow your economy. They gave us great suggestion on optimal trade deals, which improvements to get, buy just enough troops to avoid anarchy they said, military is a waste of upkeep money, keep your tech under 50 for deal oppurtunities...etc, etc. It was all great until our alliance got a foot in their $@!. Most of us lower level nations were hit in the second wave, after all our leading members got jumped. I got tooled by 3 nations (who've I've not forgotten by the way) with no chance of response, no stronger nations to send us reinforcements. So quickly I became a POW and had a lot of time to rant and rave with my fellow alliance members about my disappointment. It appeared that our alliance didn't even muster up a fight... So, I vowed to not get caught with my pants down again. Yeah, sneak attacks happen...everyday. But usually after the inital 2 days...it can be real bad for a nation. I decided to redesign my nation to be ready for war..at all times. I decided to look at what worked, u need an economy...no doubt. But i decided that what I had was enough of an economy to power my idea. I kept what worked and deviated from the path. To build a military power nation, a War Machine, you had to build your TECHNOLOGY to grow your nation. The balance of the game seemed to favor infrastructure oriented growth. But slowly, maybe unnoticed, game improvements that leveraged technology started to get rolled out: 1. Technology makes your people happy. 2. Having a higher technology level allows you to equip your soldiers and tanks with better weapons and gear. 3. Technology increases your nation strength by a multiplier of 5. 4. Technology lowers infrastructure upkeep costs up to a maximum 10% discount 5. Technology increases your chances of spy operation/counter-operation success 6. Technology increases damages caused in ground battles, cruise missile attacks, nuclear missile attacks, navy attacking and defending naval attacks, and aircraft bombing I started buying technology like a junky on crack. As soon as I could, I was purchasing tech to grow my nation. Besides paying taxes, I purchased nothing else for weeks. As the tech grew, my costs started dropping. I could spend a few thousand on infrastructure .5 or 1 a day. I was all about the technology deals. When I got to 500 infrastructure, i purchased level 9 planes. One a day, every day for a over a month. I started to make trade agreements that would support the building of a strong airforce: Resources which provide aircraft bonuses include: • Aluminum - Reduces initial cost of aircraft by -8% • Lead - Lowers aircraft upkeep cost by -20% • Oil - Lowers initial cost of aircraft by -4% • Rubber - Lowers initial cost of aircraft by -4% • Construction - Bonus Resource Increases aircraft limit by +10 • Space Program - National Wonder Aircraft cost -5% Let some bullspit nation come at me with their level 4 or 5 planes now. I'll shoot them outta the sky with less than a squadron. I started purchasing missle defense improvements, i will make you less effective than you hoped. When I start purchasing Satelite improvements...I will hit you harder than you thought! A casual review of nations in my attack range, (50% to 200% of my NS 15,027) reveals that only 10 of the 20 top nations at the 200% range have technology levels to match me in combat. Although most of them had 2 or 3 times as much infrastructure (thus the ability to substan a long-term assault) they would not be able to overwhelm me in the first, second or even 3 day of combat. Enough time for me to call upon my allies to reinforcement. Almost no one in NS of 22000 or less has more technology rating. It goes without saying a war machine nation needs to have a considerable amount of reserve war funds banked just in case of war and spys (who benefit from high technology) on hand to protect against subversion. Lastly, in my alliance it is my attention to move to the front of the list to the "international police" nation of sorts. To make mysefl available to defend alliance mates from unprovoked attacks. In this way, I bring value to my alliance, not at this time as a economic giant but as a defender. I don't know how to put this any nicer, but your nation would get crushed in war by many, many nations in your range. Your reasoning is flawed, largely for lack of war experience I'm guessing. You would be better off doing what everyone else does for nation development, your battle build is below average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V The King Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 And yet LeVentNoir has 20k more NS and a nuclear stockpile. True, but the way that one chooses to build is not the only factor determining how fast one grows. You also ought to consider whether if that person got aided by his alliance, if he faced a war while in the losing side and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord n00b II Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 (edited) True, but the way that one chooses to build is not the only factor determining how fast one grows. You also ought to consider whether if that person got aided by his alliance, if he faced a war while in the losing side and so on. Also, by how stupid one starts off . I wasn't exactly a genius in how this game was supposed to be played when I started. Heck, I'd definitely be higher if I rerolled after about 200 days compared to what I am now. Well played LeVent, but this guy can't declare on you, so too bad . EDITED to add: I never expected my post to get analyzed by 5 other people, minimum. Go figure. Edited July 21, 2008 by Call Me A n00b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverHawk Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 And yet LeVentNoir has 20k more NS and a nuclear stockpile. Noob sacrificed long term gain in terms of taxes collected to purchase the 100 Million Dollar money sink. Your point isn't even relavent to what I was discussing. Now if Noir ALSO had the Manhatten Wonder THEN you would have a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 How to build an AWESOME nation: 1. Get good trades 2. Join an alliance and do tech deals 3. Shut up and buy infra when you're starting out 4. Donate for a big nation and get millions in aid (I have a big nation. PM me if you are interested in testing how the donation system works.) 5. Keep your aid slots maximized. Inbound, outbound, it doesn't matter: you want $3 million or 50 tech filling up each channel. 6. ??? (This is an ALLIANCE SECRET!!! Each alliance has its own secrets. Be active on their forums and you'll learn them.) 7. Profit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumzilla Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Lol I know, every one does it now. PS. Ruler: LeVentNoirCall Me A n00b, I started 24 days before you, and i have an extra 20kNS, I think this proves your point again. Eco build win much better. http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=164905 Oh yeah? I started 7 days after you, and I have 400 extra NS. Take that! Disclaimer: If your sarcasm meter is broke, this is a form of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Mardle Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 (edited) Noob sacrificed long term gain in terms of taxes collected to purchase the 100 Million Dollar money sink. Your point isn't even relavent to what I was discussing. Now if Noir ALSO had the Manhatten Wonder THEN you would have a point. I'm well aware of what n00b did. Your point was that n00b sacrificed economic growth to buy the MP and get nukes, which is a main reason why he has 20k less NS than LeVentNoir. My point was that If he'd done the same as LeVent Noir he'd have the extra NS and the nukes (the effects of wars not included, although there doesn't seem to have been much of that). Tell me how those aren't related, rolleyes. There are obviously reasons why n00b went for the MP and the nukes instead of economic growth (probably the same reasons that I just have) but in the long-term was forsaking economic growth for military power worth it? Edited July 21, 2008 by Pete Mardle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Noob sacrificed long term gain in terms of taxes collected to purchase the 100 Million Dollar money sink. Your point isn't even relavent to what I was discussing. Now if Noir ALSO had the Manhatten Wonder THEN you would have a point. Give me 8 days. Then I can have the MP and we can compare. The point is, at this stage in my development, it is a lesser part of my income than it is for you. You paid a higher price than I did for it. The saving was the thing that killed you. I bet it was the best part of a months or more saving, where as, $100mil is a ten day swap. So, we cannot be compared, and it would be futile to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord n00b II Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Give me 8 days. Then I can have the MP and we can compare. The point is, at this stage in my development, it is a lesser part of my income than it is for you. You paid a higher price than I did for it. The saving was the thing that killed you. I bet it was the best part of a months or more saving, where as, $100mil is a ten day swap. So, we cannot be compared, and it would be futile to try. Actually, it was only 20 days worth of taxes at the time, and I had a lot of it saved up at the time because there was a potential war. When that fell through, I had a lot of money and realized my wonder clock expired, I decided to just go for the nukes now and then grow later (under the... why not? policy). To each his own, my opinion. And as a note, I care about comparing our nations a lot less than a lot of other people. Also, reading my second post might give some people an idea on why I'm so far behind (but still happy with how my nation has progressed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverHawk Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Give me 8 days. Then I can have the MP and we can compare. The point is, at this stage in my development, it is a lesser part of my income than it is for you. You paid a higher price than I did for it. The saving was the thing that killed you. I bet it was the best part of a months or more saving, where as, $100mil is a ten day swap. So, we cannot be compared, and it would be futile to try. Why are you talking to me, I'm not the one being compared here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRCatD Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I'm well aware of what n00b did.Your point was that n00b sacrificed economic growth to buy the MP and get nukes, which is a main reason why he has 20k less NS than LeVentNoir. My point was that If he'd done the same as LeVent Noir he'd have the extra NS and the nukes (the effects of wars not included, although there doesn't seem to have been much of that). Tell me how those aren't related, rolleyes. There are obviously reasons why n00b went for the MP and the nukes instead of economic growth (probably the same reasons that I just have) but in the long-term was forsaking economic growth for military power worth it? Why does everyone think that 20K more NS implies a better nation? If you've 20k mroe NS, then nations with 40k more NS than your previous upper bound can declare on you, and you can't declare on nations 10k NS within your previous lower bound. In other words, having nukes at 47k ns is less special and can get bigger nations declaring on you than at 27k ns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternos Astramora Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Why does everyone think that 20K more NS implies a better nation? If you've 20k mroe NS, then nations with 40k more NS than your previous upper bound can declare on you, and you can't declare on nations 10k NS within your previous lower bound. In other words, having nukes at 47k ns is less special and can get bigger nations declaring on you than at 27k ns. Because that 20K more NS probably means that it has more infra and tech. What you're basically saying is the a 5K NS nation with 20 nukes is better than a 100K NS nation with nukes. If it really was, people would get nukes and sell their stuff to get down to a lower level, and we just don't see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Money. The price of infra at high levels is WAY more than at low ones. Hence, the value of your nuke, in terms of cost to replace what it destroyed is much higher at higher levels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpreb Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 (edited) Noob sacrificed long term gain in terms of taxes collected to purchase the 100 Million Dollar money sink. Your point isn't even relavent to what I was discussing. Now if Noir ALSO had the Manhatten Wonder THEN you would have a point. New Kemet Republic I think that it is his nation and it does not have any wonders at all. Edited July 23, 2008 by alpreb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 That was not comparing me or n00b to the op, but me to n00b. Our point is that building an eco nation lets you grow further faster in times of peace, which is most of the time on CN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biged Posted July 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 (edited) You know, I got pretty much the same discussion from my alliance members... I agree that going for an economic build is solid and well tested. I'd be a know-it-all jerk to not acknowledge that you guys have very valid points. But what I was speaking aloud about was a way to play the game with some personality. Not months after you've accumulated all the goodies everyone else waits to strive for but from the beginning...plotting a nation that looks a little different and hopefully is played a little differently even in time of war... Also, my position was about the coming storm...a time when tech development will not be unbalanced with infrastructure. A day when the developers begin to level the game mechanics and reward alternative forms of development in ways that make sense. For example: To limit the tech advantage added to tank combat to 100 serves no real purpose. Are bigger/older nations with high very high tech really producing tanks that perform as well as a small nation with only 100 tech level? It comes from a period of time when tech was under valued. But now the game has slowly implemented more tech related bonuses. I hope there are lots more to come... I asked someone in my alliance to do a test wargame with me. I was willing to pay $3M in reparations for any damage I caused. I found a taker who wanted to really dig into the battle reports and share them with others but the powers that be in our alliance forbid it. I don't honestly know if they think I would get slaughtered or if I'd turn this $hit upside down on its head...but I'll have to wait. I decided to heed their advance and slow down off the tech...i increased my infrastructure by 300 in one day. Yeah, my war chest on hand was a little over $7M...waiting for a chance to get out spent. The added benefit of having such high tech is my bills are low as hell and after i purchase military, spies and land, I have lots of money left to bank. Edited July 23, 2008 by Chairman Toure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Nice. I am currently buying lots of tech, as I feel that a build up to near a 2:1 Infra to tech ratio is needed to stay competitive at my level, how ever having a 3:1 Ratio at 3k infra is a nice amount, generally about twice what most guides recommend and hence, a lot more deadly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackyseto123 Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Nice. I am currently buying lots of tech, as I feel that a build up to near a 2:1 Infra to tech ratio is needed to stay competitive at my level, how ever having a 3:1 Ratio at 3k infra is a nice amount, generally about twice what most guides recommend and hence, a lot more deadly I'd would like to go try a 2:1.5 Infrastructure/Tech ratio, as of course Technology is what could change any battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 that would mean a bit more than 4k tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackyseto123 Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 For me it's about 1125 since I'm a nub =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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