The Zigur Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) As Emperor of ISX, I very frequently begun my negotiations with a written text. Treaty law is the fundamentally stabilizing influence of Cybernations, holding all signed parties accountable for the upholding of sworn oaths. Sworn oaths, held by all parties, must be followed. Any person who violates a sworn oath should be rightly condemned and held accountable, whether hegemon or rebel. It is the details of an agreement that matters, not the propaganda and banter that precedes it. We can either choose to follow the path of mindless destruction, or put aside pettiness and seek to build a better tomorrow for all of our alliances. It is the decisions made by those with power that decides whether they may be perceived as noble in battle, or intolerable in governance. Edited July 19, 2018 by The Zigur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart416 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 hours ago, The Zigur said: As Emperor of ISX, I very frequently begun my negotiations with a written text. Treaty law is the fundamentally stabilizing influence of Cybernations, holding all signed parties accountable for the upholding of sworn oaths. Sworn oaths, held by all parties, must be followed. Any person who violates a sworn oath should be rightly condemned and held accountable, whether hegemon or rebel. It is the details of an agreement that matters, not the propaganda and banter that precedes it. We can either choose to follow the path of mindless destruction, or put aside pettiness and seek to build a better tomorrow for all of our alliances. It is the decisions made by those with power that decides whether they may be perceived as noble in battle, or intolerable in governance. If you can't even answer the simple yes-no question of "are you interested in peace?", there ain't much more left to discuss. And honestly, your ISX career is meaningless, and so was that entire alliance, but that's besides the point. There's no point in much blablabla if you can't even answer simple questions without shouting distrust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathAdder Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, The Zigur said: I have spoken with SPATR leadership and they have confirmed that while NPO has publicly offered peace, they refuse to address concerns such as long-term peace while rebuilding, or attacks from barbarian mercenaries. The only reason this could be the case is that NPO plans attacks by themselves and/or their proxies after peace is achieved. Actually, that whole protection thing was brought up to IRON, not NPO. They should probably learn to distinguish between the two Alliances. Pretty much necessary when you're negotiating with two or more. Second, when it was addressed, we were fine with a 6 mo-1yr protection. Apparently this wasn't good enough for them?? Third, the last time we spoke to Rhiz about it, it was to ask what they wanted outlined. Afaik, they never got back to IRON. One, or all of you, are idiots. Maybe if they'd quit waffling like a bunch of morons and say what the $%&@ they wanted, they would already be in peace. In actuality, they just want to target our ally without repercussion, as has already been stated in past negotiation which I personally conducted. Either way, you being their mouthpiece isn't going to do anything, because, any peace SPATR and Oculus reach will not include you, and that won't be changing. Edited July 19, 2018 by DeathAdder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathAdder Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) -Double post.- Edited July 19, 2018 by DeathAdder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, DeathAdder said: Either way, you being their mouthpiece isn't going to do anything, because, any peace SPATR and Oculus reach will not include you, and that won't be changing. 'You may join us, for my part. But there is a strange light in your eyes; you are a dangerous man. What is your name?’ ‘Neithan, the Wronged, I call myself,’ said Túrin, and Neithan he was afterwards called by the outlaws; but though he claimed to have suffered injustice (and to any who claimed the like he ever lent too ready an ear), no more would he reveal concerning his life or his home. Yet they saw that he had fallen from high state, and that though he had nothing but his arms, those were made by elven-smiths. He soon won their praise, for he was strong and valiant, and had more skill in the woods than they, and they trusted him, for he was not greedy, and took little thought for himself. Edited July 19, 2018 by The Zigur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart416 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Zigur said: 'You may join us, for my part. But there is a strange light in your eyes; you are a dangerous man. What is your name?’ ‘Neithan, the Wronged, I call myself,’ said Túrin, and Neithan he was afterwards called by the outlaws; but though he claimed to have suffered injustice (and to any who claimed the like he ever lent too ready an ear), no more would he reveal concerning his life or his home. Yet they saw that he had fallen from high state, and that though he had nothing but his arms, those were made by elven-smiths. He soon won their praise, for he was strong and valiant, and had more skill in the woods than they, and they trusted him, for he was not greedy, and took little thought for himself; but they feared him, because of his sudden angers, which they seldom understood. I call copyright infringement on you, no proper reference of your citation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 I have been wronged, as have those who remain alive in the SPATR coalition. This is perhaps the one thing that brings us all together. Reading through the logs, it is plain to me that the intent of the negotiations have been to dangle hope before the eyes of SPATR's survivors, and taking it back with absurd delays and uncertain demands. All of this intended to discourage SPATR's nations and hope that they quit. I will do what I may to advise my fellows of the hegemon's tricks, and to review any actual peace treaty that may be presented. Even if the spite and vindictiveness of Deathadder and his minions exclude me from peace, I would see to it that my fellows have peace, a fair peace free of deceit or trickery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart416 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 47 minutes ago, The Zigur said: I have been wronged, Stop crying. 48 minutes ago, The Zigur said: as have those who remain alive in the SPATR coalition. See the last 27 pages, they're still at war by their own choice at this point. 48 minutes ago, The Zigur said: This is perhaps the one thing that brings us all together. Nah, they actually know what they're doing, you on the other hand not so much. 49 minutes ago, The Zigur said: Reading through the logs, it is plain to me that the intent of the negotiations have been to dangle hope before the eyes of SPATR's survivors, and taking it back with absurd delays and uncertain demands. All of this intended to discourage SPATR's nations and hope that they quit. You mean a "no terms" peace agreement is an unfair burden? 49 minutes ago, The Zigur said: I will do what I may to advise my fellows of the hegemon's tricks, and to review any actual peace treaty that may be presented. It would be fun to include a line in a peace treaty that specifically states you're the only person who's not allowed to see it! 50 minutes ago, The Zigur said: Even if the spite and vindictiveness of Deathadder and his minions exclude me from peace, I would see to it that my fellows have peace, a fair peace free of deceit or trickery. Minions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) Being cheeky doesnt erase the fact that NPO and company have not been serious about peace negotiations. NPO's leadership is so caught up in the pursuit of power and domination, that they could care less about the welfare of their new nations. Bart's dismissive attitude and joking about peace reveals their true attitude. Peace is not possible until the concerns of SPATR leadership are addressed in a serious fashion. This means, at minimum, the necessity of safeguards against deception and treachery. Until NPO grows up and comes to the table, attacks will continue against the hegemonic lower tier. Edited July 19, 2018 by The Zigur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathAdder Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 54 minutes ago, The Zigur said: Peace is not possible until the concerns of SPATR leadership are addressed in a serious fashion. This means, at minimum, the necessity of safeguards against deception and treachery. Until NPO grows up and comes to the table, attacks will continue against the hegemonic lower tier. We've been at the table. You/them are literally the only ones absurd enough to think that we're the only ones who can draw up a peace agreement. If they actually gave a damn about protection, or achieving peace, they would've added that in a counter negotiation months ago, or gotten back to LoD/Myself on what the hell they wanted. Maybe in your little fantasy land, only those attacking you can write up peace agreements, but, in reality, where everyone else lives, it's a two-way street. UNTIL THEY GROW UP, and actually figure out what the $%&@ they want to do, they will continue to be exterminated, and I DO NOT CARE how much you/them/anyone else yells, kicks, or screams about it, I have zero issue with wiping people out of this World who refuse to negotiate, or anyone else who is stupid enough to get in my way while I finish what they started. Edited July 19, 2018 by DeathAdder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart416 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 27 minutes ago, The Zigur said: Being cheeky doesnt erase the fact that NPO and company have not been serious about peace negotiations. You're the only one who claims we're unwilling to end this war. 28 minutes ago, The Zigur said: NPO's leadership is so caught up in the pursuit of power and domination, that they could care less about the welfare of their new nations. The misunderstanding there is that you think that your little show does any considerable damage. 28 minutes ago, The Zigur said: Bart's dismissive attitude and joking about peace reveals their true attitude. When I stop joking, worry... worry a lot... [ooc]Even after getting flung out of a boat into dirty salt water with a 1 cm wide deep laceration in my arm (seeing your own muscle tissue and veins is "fun") I was still making jokes. So when I stop joking, well, you don't want to be around then... [/ooc] 29 minutes ago, The Zigur said: Peace is not possible until the concerns of SPATR leadership are addressed in a serious fashion. They were addressed in a serious manner, but it's hard to negotiate with someone who doesn't want to. 30 minutes ago, The Zigur said: This means, at minimum, the necessity of safeguards against deception and treachery. Lets look at this from a neutral point of view: If NPO is already so deceptive and treacherous - and this is widely known according to you - why would any word NPO writes down mean anything? Who's going to stop the evil omnicorp NPO from turning around and attacking SPATR again, and what would the difference be for them versus now? 32 minutes ago, The Zigur said: Until NPO grows up and comes to the table, attacks will continue against the hegemonic lower tier. Mirror mirror on the wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 30 minutes ago, DeathAdder said: UNTIL THEY GROW UP, and actually figure out what the $%&@ they want to do, they will continue to be exterminated, and I DO NOT CARE how much you/them/anyone else yells, kicks, or screams about it, I have zero issue with wiping people out of this World who refuse to negotiate, or anyone else who is stupid enough to get in my way while I finish what they started. I am personally pleased that NPO leadership is beginning to abandon talk of PZI and permawar, and is interested in diplomacy. SPATR leadership has indicated to me a desire to establish a fair peace, but after years of warfare they are not in a rush. The peace process will take time and needs to cover several different issues that relate to the long-term well-being of SPATR coalition members. If NPO's leadership can get over their vindictive feelings, I would be pleased to put my experience to work and intermediate an agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaBeeGipson Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, The Zigur said: Being cheeky doesnt erase the fact that NPO and company have not been serious about peace negotiations. NPO's leadership is so caught up in the pursuit of power and domination, that they could care less about the welfare of their new nations. Bart's dismissive attitude and joking about peace reveals their true attitude. Peace is not possible until the concerns of SPATR leadership are addressed in a serious fashion. This means, at minimum, the necessity of safeguards against deception and treachery. Until NPO grows up and comes to the table, attacks will continue against the hegemonic lower tier. Please, enlighten me on how peace talks have no been serious? How are NPO caught in a pursuit of something they already have? Peace has been talked about in a serious fashion and has been discussed, multiple times. Are you the official spokesperson for SPaTR and crew now? Inquiring minds would like to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathAdder Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, The Zigur said: I am personally pleased that NPO leadership is beginning to abandon talk of PZI and permawar, and is interested in diplomacy. SPATR leadership has indicated to me a desire to establish a fair peace, but after years of warfare they are not in a rush. The peace process will take time and needs to cover several different issues that relate to the long-term well-being of SPATR coalition members. If NPO's leadership can get over their vindictive feelings, I would be pleased to put my experience to work and intermediate an agreement. I'm not really interested in your propaganda. I had personally conducted negotiations with Nashorn, on behalf of the entire SPATR coalition and left it open to discussion when they decided to reject my last peace proposal and didn't counter-offer. When they (read: not you) bother to contact myself/LoD with an outline of what they want, as IRON asked them to do a month ago, we will consider it and negotiations will continue. Edited July 19, 2018 by DeathAdder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, SeaBeeGipson said: Please, enlighten me on how peace talks have no been serious? How are NPO caught in a pursuit of something they already have? Peace has been talked about in a serious fashion and has been discussed, multiple times. Are you the official spokesperson for SPaTR and crew now? Inquiring minds would like to know I am the IRON balls of MONGOLS. 3 minutes ago, DeathAdder said: I'm not really interested in your propaganda. I had personally conducted negotiations with Nashorn, on behalf of the entire SPATR coalition and left it open to discussion when they decided to reject my last peace proposal and didn't counter-offer. When they (read: not you) bother to contact myself/LoD with an outline of what they want, as IRON asked them to do a month ago, we will consider it and negotiations will continue. Then it is settled, NPO is not serious about negotiating peace, just as I said. I suspect Nashorn would rather me deal with you oafs than waste time himself. Your membership will of course be informed that you refuse to negotiate peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathAdder Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, The Zigur said: Then it is settled, NPO is not serious about negotiating peace, just as I said. I suspect Nashorn would rather me deal with you oafs than waste time himself. Your membership will of course be informed that you refuse to negotiate peace. You aren't really a member of theirs, so, that's fine if SPATR personally doesn't want to negotiate, as we have been saying since the start of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, DeathAdder said: You aren't really a member of theirs, so, that's fine if SPATR personally doesn't want to negotiate, as we have been saying since the start of this thread. Sorry, but you are not the final authority that determines who is an "actual member" of other alliances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathAdder Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Zigur said: Sorry, but you are not the final authority that determines who is an "actual member" of other alliances. I am when it comes to accepting whether a negotiation is valid or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, DeathAdder said: I am when it comes to accepting whether a negotiation is valid or not. Again, this is just proving my point that NPO is being deceptive when it comes to peace talks. I have the experience to cut straight through the BS, which is why you are afraid to treat with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathAdder Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 We refuse to hold an audience with you, because, as I've said above, any agreement that is reached with SPATR coalition will not include you. There is no real !@#$%^&*. They send what they wish to receive to us, we review it, then we either accept, or make a counter proposal, and it repeats until both parties are happy. This is how negotiation works. If they can't be bothered to do that, then, they are not interested in negotiating for peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, DeathAdder said: We refuse to hold an audience with you, because, as I've said above, any agreement that is reached with SPATR coalition will not include you. There is no real !@#$%^&*. They send what they wish to receive to us, we review it, then we either accept, or make a counter proposal, and it repeats until both parties are happy. This is how negotiation works. If they can't be bothered to do that, then, they are not interested in negotiating for peace. I will let those viewing this thread to judge for themselves which side is sincere about negotiating peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathAdder Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 That's fine. Until something comes from their actual leadership, I can't think of a single alliance that has ever existed that would take that as a valid offer that can be held to accountability if violated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, DeathAdder said: That's fine. Until something comes from their actual leadership, I can't think of a single alliance that has ever existed that would take that as a valid offer that can be held to accountability if violated. Anyone that wasn't born yesterday will realize that any final agreement would be signed by SPATR leadership. I am not even demanding the agreement cover my own nation, since I am aware the pettiness of NPO knows no bounds, and no doubt any peace for myself, if even possible, will involve some silly humiliation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathAdder Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Zigur said: Anyone that wasn't born yesterday will realize that any final agreement would be signed by SPATR leadership. I am not even demanding the agreement cover my own nation, since I am aware the pettiness of NPO knows no bounds, and no doubt any peace for myself, if even possible, will involve some silly humiliation. So, then, why is it so impossible for Nashorn, or Blacksheep, or Cyrodil to send the message outlining what they want? IDC what you do internally for them, however, you aren't going to worm your way into a seat at the actual negotiation table. If they want someone to negotiate for them, have them send Cuba, or, someone at least reputable my way. I'm not interested in listening to you whine in another channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DeathAdder said: So, then, why is it so impossible for Nashorn, or Blacksheep, or Cyrodil to send the message outlining what they want? IDC what you do internally for them, however, you aren't going to worm your way into a seat at the actual negotiation table. If they want someone to negotiate for them, have them send Cuba, or, someone at least reputable my way. I'm not interested in listening to you whine in another channel. The final decision lies with SPATR coalition leadership. If it is their desire that I should represent them, then that desire should be respected. If NPO refuses to treat with the diplomat designated by a sovereign group of alliances, then the sovereignty of SPATR is not respected by NPO and the fault lies with NPO. Edited July 19, 2018 by The Zigur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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