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[quote name='jraenar' timestamp='1327301193' post='2905327']
Sorry, but I don't think it's been adequately demonstrated that the reason new nations don't stick around is frustration over attacks within the first week of existence. Throwing in some anecdata, I've seen quite a few nations where rogue attacks spurred more activity, seeking of help, and overall higher involvement, in order to be on the winning side "next time."

This is all a bunch of positing, "maybe X is the problem," followed by, "maybe changing Y would alleviate X." You've put the cart before the horse. First get some actual evidence, so the first part drops the "maybe." Find out for [i]sure[/i] why people from SE do not play TE. Find out for [i]sure[/i] why former TE players decide not to come back. Once you know that, [i]then[/i] is the time to determine solutions to fix the actual problems*, instead of what we think may possibly be the problem.

[size="1"]* And knowing how people are, digging into this is sure to come up with more than one problem.[/size]
[/quote]
Find out for sure? Are you kidding?
Maybe you are a genius and can do it. I have no hope there lol

Edited by kongland

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[quote name='kongland' timestamp='1327301327' post='2905328']
Find out for sure? Are you kidding?
Maybe you are a genius and can do it. I have no hope there lol
[/quote]
No. Not kidding.

There are two audiences that need to be accounted for.

The first I would guess is larger, and is definitely easier to reach: SE nations that either never chose to join TE, or once played TE and later stopped. It shouldn't be too hard to find answers from this group, as they are still here. Ask a bunch of SE players why they don't join TE, or why they joined and later left. Compile results, find common answers, and there's a big chunk of the problems that should be addressed.

The second is probably smaller, and a bit trickier to track down: nations completely new to CN, that play for a bit, then stop. Some stop by simply no longer showing up, and some stop by consciously deleting. It is beyond the community's capability to reach these former rulers, but it still should be possible to get some information. Admin adding an (entirely optional) comments field to the nation delete form could capture some of the reasons why rulers leave. There will be lots of empty comments, lots along the lines of "rerolling." But it gives a chance at more useful information than we get now. Those that stop showing up will be even harder to reach, but something as simple as an email going out at 18 days inactive (when the current red, "hey you should collect taxes," message shows up) could do a lot to either increase retention, or increase comments in the nation delete form.

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[quote name='jraenar' timestamp='1327301193' post='2905327']
Sorry, but I don't think it's been adequately demonstrated that the reason new nations don't stick around is frustration over attacks within the first week of existence.
[/quote]
I completely agree with Jraener, if he is talking about defining the problem, here. Before proposing solutions we must agree to a definition of the problem or else any proposed solutions will ultimately come up short. There are alot of different perspectives involved here and I would wager as many different ideas and views as to the cause of the problem.

Edited by paul711

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The benefits of a peace period for new nations [b]CAN[/b] be hypothesized.

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Oh hey guys, let's find the problem!


Why didn't you say so?


Good Luck with your failure goals of 2k12.

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[quote name='Confusion' timestamp='1327363856' post='2905837']
Oh hey guys, let's find the problem!


Why didn't you say so?


Good Luck with your failure goals of 2k12.
[/quote]
despite your idiocy a real discussion will continue.

Instead of offering solutions for each persons individual definition of the problem lets agree on one first. Afterwards proposals can be made to fix it.

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[quote name='paul711' timestamp='1327364070' post='2905839']
despite your idiocy a real discussion will continue.

[b]Instead of offering solutions for each persons individual definition of the problem lets agree on one first. Afterwards proposals can be made to fix it.[/b]
[/quote]

This is what everyone has believed for rounds, under the impression a solution will just fall out of the sky.


PS: It won't.


We will only know through experimentation and observation.

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[quote name='Confusion' timestamp='1327365989' post='2905853']
This is what everyone has believed for rounds, under the impression a solution will just fall out of the sky.


PS: It won't.


We will only know through experimentation and observation.
[/quote]
An answer will come through serious discusion, there have been plenty of observations.

What is needed is to agree on what the problem is first. Only then can remedies be proposed.

My definition of the problem is that CN is a browser game and most SE players play it as such. To be successful in TE requires activity which many are not prepared to give.Hence we have a core of TE vets and noobs come along being raided and excluded. to me the problem is that some are willing to dedicate the time to be successful while others just blow it off.

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I agree with Jraenar, Atomic Dog and Paul711.
I'll be waiting with the anticipation for the wonderful "sure" thing to be posted here.

In the meantime, the admin would be well advised to stop fiddling with the game. No changes please, until the research will have been acomplished and recommendations given.
Panacea - that's what we need.

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Not sure if we are still on the idea of motivation but possibly the idea that if one comes in the top 20 and has over 100k casualties your SE nation get 500 tech (1 round offer)? Then some nations may decide to leave but others will stay.

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[quote name='CEO George Harris' timestamp='1327376059' post='2905957']
Not sure if we are still on the idea of motivation but possibly the idea that if one comes in the top 20 and has over 100k casualties your SE nation get 500 tech (1 round offer)? Then some nations may decide to leave but others will stay.
[/quote]

What's the point? We all already know who the top 20 will be...

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[quote name='kongland' timestamp='1327373660' post='2905941']
I agree with Jraenar, Atomic Dog and Paul711.
I'll be waiting with the anticipation for the wonderful "sure" thing to be posted here.

In the meantime, the admin would be well advised to stop fiddling with the game. No changes please, until the research will have been acomplished and recommendations given.
Panacea - that's what we need.
[/quote]
That's not what I'm saying. My point is, if the goal of the changes is to reduce attrition and/or improve recruitment, we should have a better idea of the actual reasons for rulers leaving or not showing up to begin with.

Stevie is correct that the idea has some merit, and is worth discussion. It's far too premature to declare it as the silver bullet that will reduce the decline in nation count from round to round. I have a feeling that it will not accomplish those goals, [i]but I don't know if I am correct[/i].

Changes should be proposed and considered. All I'm saying is they should be based on some actual evidence first. A group of veterans isn't exactly the best place to go for opinions from novices.

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^^ True dat, boo.

What about things like...
...the ever evolving rules?
...SE having the same update time AS TE? Maybe offset it an hour?
...no specific notice given before the start of a round?


All I was saying is that I think many of you have latched on to the first plausible rationale.

Edited by Awesome Dog

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[quote name='Awesome Dog' timestamp='1327631686' post='2907825']
^^ True dat, boo.

What about things like...
...the ever evolving rules?
...SE having the same update time AS TE? Maybe offset it an hour?
...no specific notice given before the start of a round?


All I was saying is that I think many of you have latched on to the first plausible rationale.
[/quote]

Off setting update could be good. Although, some people want to get both done over the same hour, rather than have to be on for both?

Perhaps the offset update is only useful when war is being waged in both TE and SE?

Id be for it regardless, just some others may not, idk?

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Before the switch to 3 month rounds, I thought it would be a cool idea to speed up TE by 2x. Month-long rounds, update at 12 midnight and 12 noon. No idea how that would impact things though, I could see it being a non-starter for more casual players.

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[quote name='jraenar' timestamp='1327648119' post='2908067']
Before the switch to 3 month rounds, I thought it would be a cool idea to speed up TE by 2x. Month-long rounds, update at 12 midnight and 12 noon. No idea how that would impact things though, I could see it being a non-starter for more casual players.
[/quote]
double updates would be cool imo

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I think this needs to be carried through to its logical conclusion. Next round should last 90 hours, with update at the top of each hour. Anybody who can stay awake and at their computer for 90 hours straight? Winner!

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[quote name='Einer' timestamp='1327706501' post='2908494']
I think this needs to be carried through to its logical conclusion. Next round should last 90 hours, with update at the top of each hour. Anybody who can stay awake and at their computer for 90 hours straight? Winner!
[/quote]
I got this... :smug:

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Think we hit 800 nations next round? This wait (with very little information being given) can't be good.

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[quote name='bcortell' timestamp='1331361532' post='2936271']
Think we hit 800 nations next round? This wait (with very little information being given) can't be good.
[/quote]


I don't think they care. It can't be that hard to press a few keystrokes.

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[quote name='bcortell' timestamp='1331361532' post='2936271']
Think we hit 800 nations next round? This wait (with very little information being given) can't be good.
[/quote]
Unless they come up with a brilliant idea ( like the game is being incorporated into the existing huge network of players through purchase of something else or sale of this game to somebody with such network), it rather would hit 500 after such a prolonged break (months?)

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[quote name='bcortell' timestamp='1331361532' post='2936271']
Think we hit 800 nations next round? This wait (with very little information being given) can't be good.
[/quote]
We might hit 800 but we will probably stay around 600. It sucks when they do this. Takes away what small numbers we have

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Now, I think expert DDR players can hit 500 APM. This means, lag permitting, it should make sense to run a 180 minute non-scoring round where each "day" requires only 2 minute. All you have to do is to keep on pressing the buttons minute after minute. Would be entertaining to spend 3 hours like that.

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