WorldConqueror

I don't hold the fact that they get recruits from that against them, I just think it's a bit silly to boast about being #2 and 13M NS when that is the chief cause of it. And yes, we were #1, and probably got attention from noobs because of it. But we worked to get there, we deserved to be there, and we could back up our ranking. Sparta obviously can't.

They were the crowning jewel of SF, and still are, to an extent. They were expected to come in and smash NPO, and they dropped quicker than we did. And look at them now. They haven't exactly bounced back from the war either.

If I was to form an opinion on Sparta right this second, I'd probably think you were cool because you are #2, and are Spartan themed. Unfortunately for you guys, I look at the whole picture. The only memorable thing that comes to mind about Sparta is spouting the meme "This is madness" "This is (fill the blank in caps)". You are a cookie cutter alliance with a 300 movie poster pasted over it. Yes, really. If you can't see that, Sparta is an even worse alliance than I already thought. If that's true, it's ok for you to do it because someone else did it? Are we using kindergarten logic now? Does mean the point is not valid. How many of the members that make up that NS do you think joined Sparta because it is Spartan themed? I've been playing this game for 2 and a half years, and I was allied to you in the Continuum for god knows how long. I know you far better than I'd like to.

Heh. I don't have a big list like I do for Sparta. Mainly it's because you dropped so much in the Karma war, and were on the winning side. And because after Hoo left you guys were big and sanctioned but didn't seem to have any 'strong' leaders, at least not ones that were big personalities like Hoo. But maybe they were internally focused :/

It's not really anything to do with you guys being under/overrated, I just find it funny that Sparta would take shots at NSO when Sparta is such a terrible alliance. And so many reasons too. Aegis and getting sent to pink, staying there for so long, having Sparta as your theme while having no culture besides 300 references, having Sparta as your theme while having such a god-awful military, leaving the Continuum then calling it Toilet Seat in about the space of a day, your performance in the Karma war, getting to #2 in the game through reliance on your theme that is nothing but a facade. I'm sure I'm missing a few more reasons, but that's a start.

Silentkiller beat me to it.

I'm really too tired to be getting into this at the moment, but I'll give it a go. It's not relative because there's no standard to measure against, no alliance was held up as 'correctly rated'. The standard is the general perception of the alliance. Also, just because there is currently nothing better, doesn't mean that something is good. Personally I think that all past and present political systems are pretty crap, just that liberal democracy is the least crap so far. Doesn't make it awesome, and doesn't mean there won't be a political system in future that I think is good. And I was going to make another point, but my sleep-starved brain can't recall it. If I remember, I'll add it. EDIT: Whoa, hang on. The second sentence of the first paragraph should read "It's not relative because there was no alliance held up as 'correctly rated', and you aren't comparing alliances against each other, the standard is the general perception of the alliance". Kinda makes more sense.

TDSM8 disbanded in the wake of the WotC, so around a year. And who said we were comparing alliances? If all alliances were crap, the best one wouldn't become awesome, they'd just be slightly less crap than the rest. You don't have to compare something to something else to decide if its over/underrated or not. TDSM8 was underrated when they were around, and are underrated now since they are largely forgotten and never mentioned.

Point me to where it said current alliances, and I'll concede your point, buddy.

Unintentionally hilarious, coming from a Spartan.

You don't have to be a signatory of a senate treaty in order to take part in a senate election, you get that by virtue of being on the sphere. So its Stickmen's election as much as it is Purple Unity's.

I seem to remember another alliance that was about the same size and did something similar to the Flying Tigers, but maybe I'm just thinking of Franz Josef.

lol, I forgot all about the Flying Tigers.

This claim has what to do with Avalon and the Purple senate? And spam them what, exactly?

Um. What does Avalon and the Purple senate have to do with us? Anyway, on topic, I don't think this announcement was warranted. Avalon may well wish to stay uninvolved in the senate, and more power to them, but sending people voting messages doesn't effect that. As long as Avalon members are informed of their senate policy, no harm is done.

NpO would do some serious damage, they have great organisation and committed membership, and those 4000+ nukes will blow a big hole in any alliance.

Underrated: TDSM8. That was a great alliance. And I'd agree with FARK being underrated too. Overrated: RoK. NAAC.

As Karma didn't for sethb.

Probably? Were you trying to refute my point, or agree with it?

Hmm. IIRC, we wouldn't have declared if OV and their support cast had accepted ZI for sethb, 2 weeks of war for him, or even one week. So you may not have believed he was innocent, but you certainly acted like he was. Karma's steadfast support and unwillingness to see sethb punished is what lead to the declaration.

Semantics are fun, aren't they? You know what I meant, I was drawing a distinction between 'spying for someone', which I see as an alliance sending someone into another alliance in order to gather information, and directing their actions as an operative, and 'spying for yourself' when somebody decides to collect information on their own initiative. Somebody 'spying for themselves' may pass the info on, and then the alliance that received info should inform the one spied upon, but this does not mean that the spy was spying for that alliance. Geddit? Also no, this stuff is expensive.

Awesome :golfclap:

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Glad to see this. Congrats on freedom TPF!

Argh. I thought I was fairly clear in how I write things, perhaps not. I am not saying that we are not in the wrong here, what I was protesting is that Ursarkar was spying for us. He wasn't, which has been confirmed. I even conceeded that info was passed from him to others. What I am saying is that you cannot say he was spying FOR Pacifica, as WildThing or whoever did, because it's not true. We are probably getting deep into the realm of semantics here, but my point is that 'spying for Pacifica' sounds like we went to Ursarkar and said 'hey mang, we would like to spy on Polar, so get in there and do your thing'. Which we didn't. Also, I'm beginning to really hate the word fail. See the response above this. And yes, Grub could roll us, sure. I'm glad that he has chosen the peaceful route. Spitting in Polaris' face? Really? By saying that we were not directing Ursarkar? >_> And finally, the combined might of the world has twice failed to cause the demise of my alliance, so I don't think I'm going to bring the whole thing crashing down. Fair enough, cringe away. Although I did not say that Grub would not be justified in DoWing, did I?