Icewolf

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1358645046' post='3080451'] Because you're pretending us burning would be better for the world. And it wouldn't be as you've demonstrated by this clear act of barely warranted aggression. You tried no forms of diplomacy and instead jumped onto someone who was helping.you in a fight. [/quote]I wasn't aware that Umbrella & Co knew the word diplomacy. I thought they had thrown that book out the pram a long time ago. I seem to recall your good friends MK claiming that a peace offering labelled "protected by MK" was diplomacy.

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1358643275' post='3080422'] Ok guys. We have seen this failure of a coalition against umbrella claim that they aren't aggressive for declaring an aggressive wars (claiming NPO isn't an aggressor is doubly hilarious because they followed a !@#$@#$ oA in and that Umbrella has no right to exercise BIBO. Seriously. Get the $%&@ out. If Umb has no right hitting their rightful targets (and even absorbing damage AI would take) you have no !@#$@#$ fraction of a right to chain in aggressively. Commander Shepard, you're an idiot and proving your side to be hypocritical. [/quote]Which part of conspiring to allow a return to peacemode does your side have so much difficulty with? or does the fact that you are finally being held account for your behavior knock your braincells out?

All nations now seem to have been stretched sideways somewhat and this doesn't match up with the bio text. Is this intentional?

It always amazes me what DH have managed to do to the world. They have created a world where it is so surprising that someone has a legitimate and truthful cause for a war that people do not know how to react and instinctively run to try and discredit it. They have done this so well that even they have been taken in by this. I applaud you. I truly do.

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=361729 This nation has one very long word as their nation description that has somewhat broken the display.

May 5th 95% of NS is not even engaged yet. Both sides know that defeat is the end for them so will bring in every single thing they can. This will be long.

I have always wondered why upkeep triples after 50 cruise missiles. I mean, when has a nation ever held that many?

Today, the Independent Republic of Orange Nations, has declared war on the alliance of Umbrella. They have engaged in hostile acts of a deliberately provocative manner against our allies in Anarchy Inc. For this reason we have gone to war. Note that we did not seek this war. Our allies in NPO accepted the BFF agreement to avoid escalation when they could so easily have plowed on to make the war into a huge international catastrophe. Umbrella brought this. They knew what they were doing. It was deliberate. It was planned. Any claim of innocence is simply not plausible and is therefore a lie. They wanted to provoke us so that they could play the victim and pretend to be on the defensive. They do this because they believe it is the only way to activate enough treaties to destroy us. They are not defensive. They are not innocent. They are not victims. They started this war and now they have this war. Dark times are ahead my friends. We are at war and a bloody war it will be. A long war. We fully expect retaliation. We fully expect a comeback. We do not think that Umrbella's allies are so craven as to abandon them. There will be a fight. And it is likely that in the days ahead there will come a time when there is a choice to be made for many of you reading this. A time when you are called upon to stand for one side or the other or if to sit on the sidelines. The route this may come to you is not necessarily clear. Who calls and when is unpredictable. However it is likely that a call will come. All I ask of those who find that they have to make a choice is that you consider that this is a time when history is made. Far more than when IRON went to war with the New Polar Order over a year ago. Far more than when Mushroom Kingdom attacked the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations. The choices we made tonight and the choices that you will make in the near future will make history. The world order as we know it may well come crashing down in a fire of nuclear apocalypse. So I ask you. Who are you? Against whom do you wish to stand? Think on these questions and think well. The time will come soon when we must all answer these questions. And all that any of us can hope for is that we will give the right answer.

Many many CN alliances are democracies. The thing is though that dictatorship and meritocracy may not be the best way to build fun in the game but they do work. It is the same thing that everyone keeps complaining about the chessboard of CN politics causing stagnation which isn't fun. The reality is the stagnation is caused by a recognition that a certain strategy is the best way to play the game. Ultimately the winning strategy is not the one that makes the game the most fun for the ordinary player. Or at least the currently accepted orthodox strategy is not one that makes the game the most fun for the ordinary player. Read back through history and you see very different strategies which eventually fall by the wayside. Maybe a new strategy will one day arise and the world will swing back to your view of interesting. We shall see.

I did actually include all those elements in the post. I agree that they are very unlikely to happen. The ability of members to leave is just one reason why a coup is very different in the CN world to the real world. Another is that the military of an alliance is always essentially a militia rather than a compact professional fighting force. And of course there is the key point that military subjugation is just not possible in the same way due to the inability to kill a nation without a prolonged period of fighting. Which means a military takeover simply will not happen and as I said it must be a political maneuver.

You know the blog that is literally right underneath yours discusses the identical issue.

We have seen an attempt at Sparta. We have seen an attempt at GPF. We have seen what may or may not have been one at BFF. This has been a month of coups. A series of aggressive and determined attempts to change the leadership of alliances. This blog is not endorsing this method of government change. It will not take responsibility for such efforts or the penalties handed down on those attempted. It is merely looking at the theoretical elements as to how it will take place. First we must consider what a coup d'etat is. According to "Coup d'etat, A Practical Handbook" by E Luttark it is an takeover of a government by a part of that government. This book also sets out a number of factors relating to a coup, some of which can be considered in the realm of cybernations. So what do we need? A number of features can be identified for a successful operation. The alliance needs a certain structure. The politics of an alliance need to be in a certain position and the instigator needs to have certain resources at his disposal. I will begin by briefly considering each aspect in the cybernations context. The structure of the alliance. Essentially it needs to have a powerful and centralised government. LSF could not be subject to a coup as there is nothing to take over. The structure also needs to be based around on the idea that the government has power because it is the government rather than the government has power because it is legitimate. So the International or any other alliance with regular elections and referendums will be unlikely to be subject to a coup. That is not to say a democratic alliance could not have a government change in this way, but instead that it will be harder if the people of the alliance strongly regard the leaders power as coming from democratic mandate. It also needs a powerful central body. Alliances ruled by committee (such as IRON where the Presidents formal power is basically a chairman of the council-not to say that he does not have large informal power) or a federal structure with very independent departments will be quite hard to takeover as well (for reasons that will be discussed later). A Triumvirate structure in the CN world may well be a good candidate for a coup because of very concentrated power base and acceptance that they hold total power that tends to (not universally) follow. Why is this necassary? Essentially a coup is about grabbing power. Power is easier to take hold of if it is narrowly concentrated LSF cannot be coupled because the power rests with the entire alliance. The International with its referendums on major issues also vests a lot of power with the members. Getting hold of that power will be hard. The condition of the alliance This ties into the above somewhat. I mentioned the need for a government to govern by its status rather than a legitimacy or mandate claim. Obviously the government needs to be unpopular. However there needs to be an extra essence to this. It has to be unpopular and the members not capable of seeing a way to remove it. A democratic alliance with regular elections is therefore harder to coup as the elections give the government power. However it is not impossible. An alliance with many elected posts and few willing candidates could see an elite group always holding seats with no real choice. An alliance with long governmental terms and a narrow election victory could also be subject to takeover. An undemocractic government is also not necessarily subject to a coup risk. A government that is careful to include the members in its planning and discuss and get feedback will generally be harder to take over as it will begin to have a allure of legitimacy attached to its persons rather than offices. However a government that ignores or does not seek member opinion will be at risk if the right situation arises. The resources of the instigator CN differs a lot from the outside world in that military might cannot determine internal political matters. That does not meant that the military of an alliance is not important, but it does mean it has a different role to play. So our coups will be political rather than military. An outed leader might be ZIed or a failed rebel nuked but the image of troops marching into the capital will not happen. Obviously forum admin access is critical. Without this there can be no rapid takeover of an alliance. New forums are a possibility, but generally the time it takes to register people and the fact that the old government has all the pomp and splendor of its old forums and instant communication with the remaining members would render that very dangerous for the new government. So this generally means that the instigator must be a member of the government or have friends with admin access. One target here could be an old root admin retired from politics but willing to back a new order. Of course a new government could run to new forums and can reestablish the alliance. If they are supported enough then they are likely to be successful so admin access alone is not enough. There are two departments present in every alliance that I think are ideally suited to the role of a coup. The military and the recruitment corps. Other departments may exist and may have roles to play and it will depend on the alliance. However the key factors that aid these departments being useful are; 1) often they are personal heavy. The need for effective military co-ordination means a large number of officers are normally present compared to diplomats or trade circle managers. Likewise recruiting often required a large manpower base to be effective. 2) They have experience in rapid and mass communication to the entire alliance. Announcing that you are the new government and getting a rapid first impression out will be vital. The large number of personal means people regularly in contact with their commanders on alliance matters so you have a better idea of who will support them. These people will be useful to give an initial overwhelming backing of support. Further, the power of these departments could be used against an instigator so by having at least their top brass on your side can neutralise their power Messages sent out saying "don't do anything, wait and see, we are negotiating," will stall a counter action by these members and give the coup time to solidify itself. Of course outsiders could theoretically perform the coup with the help of one insider with forum access. The issue is that the workers in the government structure will be used to others orders and will look to them first. So a completely outsider takeover (retired root admin and friends) will struggle to implant themselves in the shoes of departed ministers unless the government has a very concentrated power structure with few lower levels (maybe one minister and one deputy run the entire military). Now of course none of this tells you how to actually perform a coup (although it drops some hints). It merely suggests why they are so unsuccessful as these are the basic conditions that must be met before an attempt can even be made. There are many other variables that can cause a coup to fail. This is just the basics. Also to reiterate this is purely academic and should not be tried at home. Consequences of failure will likely be ZI, EZI, ridicule on the OWF, loss of reputation and perma pariah status.

The relative training of the guards makes a major difference. Not many schools can afford a decent trained armed guard. Also, consider the cost of an armed guard on every school vs the cost of decent mental Health provision and investment in preventing the little switch that drives people crazy in the first place.

I salute this although I wish to indicate a hint of smugness and detachment about the entire thing indicating my mild distain for all other national leaders of the cyberverse

[quote name='sourcy' timestamp='1357509730' post='3072143'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Kaskus??? say what? or who?[/font][/color] [/quote]And you thought you could rise to high office. Kaskus. The crazy. The destoryer of GOONs. The warrier. the hider of smurfs. The one intersting thing to happen to CN in the last few months. Take your pick of names.

Not taking this seriously. Destroys his nation, gets himself ridiculed over a status he was not actually rejected for, and creates not just one but two sets of forums and an IRC channel for him and his one other member (assuming he actually signs up)

For someone that doesn't care you sure use a lot of caps lock. Maybe you are one of the guys that pretends not to care and claims allergies as the reason your eyes well up after you lose at monopoly. Why would a screenshot refresh your memory? I mean, you have such a great recollection that you can remember precise orders given to you, so I would assume you can also remember directly disobeying those orders. And the 24 hours thing is really irrelevant to the fact you acknowledged a message from an IRON nation linking you to the OWF peace declaration.

[quote name='sourcy' timestamp='1357426854' post='3071794'] THANK YOU FOR GIVING UP ON 24 HOURS TO PEACE != AT PEACE [/quote]I haven't. I don't know or care on what Sparta said to you. What I know is that after you acknowledged that there was peace you launched a spy operation. Not a case of "we still have 24 hours." A plain and simple acknowledgement followed by a spy operation.

OOC: Actually I'm like totally "anything...anything...anything to distract me from this essay." IC: I thought kings were supposed to have grace and decorum. A regal posture and a quiet and commanding tone. Shrieking like King Joffery is hardly kingly behavior now is it?

[quote name='sourcy' timestamp='1357426477' post='3071788'] I nuked the same nation 2 times in one day, WOW, I AM GOOD! ARE YOU REALLY THAT THICK AND RETARDED? [/font][/color] ARE YOU? TELL ME [/quote]No. You apparently are as you brag about doing so in the screenshot posted in this thread. It is quite possible to launch nuclear weapons against a nation more than once in a 24 hour timeframe. It is only launching more than once per serve reset that is prevented.

Destroy money reserves, sent after you knew peace had been declared. It was the same nation you took advantage of the 24 hour gap to nuke twice. After admitting peace was declared and acknowledging the OWF thread.

You knew that it was required to be at peace. Your message admitted that. You made no claim to "24 hours." You simply claimed that you did not know about the peace. You then launched a spy attack. Lie and lie all you like. It doesn't change the fact that you are a !@#$@#$ little coward. And yes it does make you a coward. Launching a barrage of attacks when you know retaliation won't come (as someone has offered you peace and has pointed the peace out to you) is !@#$@#$ cowardly. Cowardice Dishonesty Stupidity Those are the hallmarks of you. They will remain the hallmarks of you. Your coup d'etat is winneresque in its failure. Worse in fact-he had slightly more followers than you.

[quote name='sourcy' timestamp='1357424706' post='3071768'] You're missing the point BUDDY BOO. Sparta said we had TWENTY FOUR HOURS to peace out our wars. I was still in that TWENTY FOUR hour window. Have a nice day babe. [/quote]You had peaced out your war before the spy attack. Either you are totally blind to the realities of how the entire world works or you wanted one last jab (having turtled the entire war by all accounts). But nice job admitting to the chain of events. Now the world can see how cowardly certain people are around here. Spartan King? Kings have honour, decorum, decency, bravery and leadership. Spartan court jester would be more your mark.

Lets try this again. Do you deny this sequence of events. You nuke You are message by an IRON nations saying there is peace. You ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that there is peace. You conduct an aggressive spy operation against that nation. In. That. Order. Do you deny that sequence of events?

Thanks, but that isn't directly related to the key point. His claim not to have understood orders is not just an illustration of stupidity. It is an outright [i]lie.[/i]