WarriorConcept

[quote name='Systemfailure' timestamp='1320130126' post='2836332'] More Trashcats corner, less everything else [/quote] I agree.

Alexander needs to brush up on his CN terminology/history, going from those logs.

[quote name='mq3eleven' timestamp='1320084798' post='2835840'] If the leaders of my alliance weren't asking for a white peace during any war, I think there would be something wrong. If you're implying that conversations of white peace, is the same as surrender, then you certainly haven't learned anything during your many years here. If The Legion was as strong as you suggest, why would they let NSO nations into peace mode citing "It's hard to keep nuclear anarchied nations staggered." We both know they are a joke. [/quote] To be fair to legion they were outnumbered until just this announcement. At this point I assume they are outnumbered in the lower tier as well, which is where NSO's nations prominently are. Whether they are still a joke militarily or not may now be arguable. They did face a bigger coalition than themselves and handled themselves well despite what we all (myself included) expected. Does this one war automatically fix their reputation? Of course not, but it's a good step towards it. Whether they reach that goal or not, that's left to see.

[quote name='mq3eleven' timestamp='1320083611' post='2835814'] Why end a war that you're still doing damage in? The rate of said damage is irrelevant. If their members still want to cause destruction, then there is no reason to agree to terms. [/quote] Why ask for white peace if their members still want to cause destruction?

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1320082517' post='2835807'] I wasn't aware honoring a MDP was a dumb situation. Is that an official Umbrella Government Position? [/quote] The dumb situation might have been referring to just accepting the fact that you were defeated, then ending the war.

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1320078374' post='2835749'] You're trying to tell me that terms, on Planet Bob, have been imposed to alliances following the justice of the casus belli? Please. [/quote] Everyone who has declared has believed in their casus belli as being legitimate, and their terms would naturally be an extension in relation to the original reason. Whether it would be considered fair by the rest is a different argument.

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1320077429' post='2835726'] I think you should recall not everyone still agrees with the full validity of the CB. Yes, Tetris acted aggressively stupid with the thread they made. But the "got caught" you mention implies that Tetris did the spying, which still remains unproven. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy Legion finally decided to act on the taunts they've received. There remains a grey area, albeit small, as to this being an "airtight" CB. [/quote] Not to argue on semantics, but this has probably been the most widely accepted valid CB since I joined back in 2006.

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1320077354' post='2835724'] NSO openly boasted of having spied on Legion's nations. What are you trying to prove there? It doesn't change the fact that NSO entered in defense of Tetris, after Tetris was attacked by Legion. It just gives just cause for Legion's war. Terms don't have anything to do with the relative justice of a cause. [/quote] Terms have always had to do with the relative justice of a cause in relation to the original CB. In this case it's very clear that NSO were the reason that the original CB even started, thus even if NSO did go in on an MDP they should still be held accountable for their part in starting the war. This is why periphery alliances are given more lenient terms, if any. Honestly I'm quite amazed you could make that last statement with a straight face.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1320077145' post='2835720'] This is quite simply a dumb question. Every alliance since the inception of planet Bob, has at one time or another, called in an ally when they didnt need them. Almost every war has been exactly this on a grand scale, with a decided edge to one side, but AA's continue to bandwagon and pile on. You know what allies are for? They are to help you kill those you are fighting with. There is no honor, or dishonor, in using them to that end. [/quote] Every war has started small, went big, then broke down to the original players. This has already done that, to call in more people now is different than anything in history. If NSO were being forced reps then I would see why their allies might intervene. However NSO is being asked to suck it up and admit they lost (which we all know they have).

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1320077071' post='2835718'] Except "right is right and wrong is wrong", no matter who proposes it. ChairmanHal's proposal made a lot of sense. A public white peace is different from a public admission of defeat. White peace literally means just that. Legion are far from having achieved a decisive military victory and their political position doesn't allow them the courtesy to toy around for too long. An apology by Tetris and a white peace for everyone else is the best they can aim for. As a sidenote, NSO entered in defense of Tetris. [/quote] A more important note: NSO were discovered to have provided the spied screenshots to Tetris which was what led to this war.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1320076949' post='2835714'] The issue that most of us have is this : NSO is in this war on a binding mutual defense obligation. Yet are being treated more harshly, in the conclusion of the affair, than those who blatantly used aggression clauses. It is all being done, in an effort to punish NSO for things that Legion were too afraid to man up and punish them for months ago when they actually happened. Now, dont get me wrong, I am rather giddy at the thought that this world is coming to accept punishing alliances for crimes committed in the past, that they were never punished for. I can think of a few alliances , though, that shouldnt want this precedent set. [/quote] Historically peripheral alliances have always been given more lenient terms than the main culprits. However with the discovery that NSO gave Tetris the screenshots that warranted the original DoW by Legion, it is not out of the question to demand at the very least a statement of defeat considering their role in this war.

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1320076750' post='2835712'] [color="#008000"]There are three possibilities [/color][list=1][*][color="#008000"]NSO Lies and says they were defeated by Legion[/color][*][color="#008000"]Legion, Tetris, and NSO simply shoulder their guns and go home[/color][*][color="#008000"]The war escalates[/color][/list][color="#008000"]Naturally the second option is preferable as it ends a war (The purpose of which was for Legion to show the world that they won't jump into peace mode at the drop of a hat, like the entire world and their mother expected them to, which is admirable I'll give them that) whose purpose has expired. The first option would be a deception as we have not been defeated by Legion, why would we tell the world we are except to stroke Legion's tiny nether regions even more. The third option is the least desirable, but still a possibility. It would end the war, yes. It would be much more decisive, yes. Personally? I don't have the time to invest into a much longer war. [/color] [/quote] If you're not being defeated why would you need your allies?

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1320076260' post='2835702'] Except Legion is not "clearly winning" [/quote] Then why is NSO threatening to call in its allies?

As far as I'm aware Legion is offering peace as long as NSO admits defeat.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1320075085' post='2835688'] The opposing viewpoint isn't that The Legion being in a weaker position on the web makes its demands unfair, it's that continuing to insist on anything other than white peace seems overly confident given the possible consequences (escalation). [/quote] Well, that's why I'm respecting Legion a bit more now. If NSO's allies wish to bandwagon in just so NSO won't have to admit their defeat that is their prerogative.

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1320074679' post='2835683'] ChairmanHal IS an award winning problem solver. I like it. [/quote] I almost thought Delta praised Hal. Well done.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1320074399' post='2835680'] Perhaps then the solution to the "problem" of how to end this flustercluck is for the following to happen: 1. Legion grants white peace to all parties, save for Tetris, who admits that it made a mistake and will not repeat it and will maintain a policy of respect toward Legion in the future. 2. In the same announcement, Legion declares victory in its war, that it accepts Tetris' acknowledgement of wrongdoing, and wishes to move on to better relations in the future. We're done. NSO can claim to have won the Grey Cup and the Stanley Cup for all the world cares. We, the greater Planet Bob community, know who won what and to what lengths that NSO was willing to put on knee pads in front of their allies in order to get out of saying the "S" word. Hell, I'll write the OP. [/quote] Why should Legion be forced to accommodate NSO?

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1320072172' post='2835669'] Asking for the enemy to surrender when you have the upper hand isn't hubris. Escalating a war simply so your ego won't have to take a little bruising, on the other hand, quite clearly is. [/quote] [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320073146' post='2835673'] How is Legion exhibiting hubris? Hahaha. What? By offering white peace with the stipulation that the force accepting it has been defeated? How is that Hubris? Dictating terms from a disadvantaged point (see NSO,) would be considered Hubris. Or extracting large sums of reps (or reps at all,) for Tetris' aggressive actions against Legion. None of that has occurred. What has occurred, quite humerously, is that the formerly "incompetent," Legion is somehow being told they are oppressing hostile forces who sought to harm it by offering them white peace. How dare you, Legion! [/quote] I'd have to agree with both these guys. Legion is being very fair in its demands, just because it is in a weaker position on the web does not make it any less true.

Found your agenda? Congrats on the treaty.

[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1320060229' post='2835617'] Honestly, this thread represents everything wrong with Planet Bob. Can someone tell me why we are blasting NSO? Because they talked !@#$ and "are losing" the war? Lets go through my little check list here: NSO talked !@#$ and had fun doing it - check NSO caused controversy and made things interesting - check NSO has gone to war and win or lose have had fun doing it - check Everyone else(not NG) is sitting around, dick in hand, waiting for things to expand - check No one outside of NG and NSO are doing anything to make things fun/interesting. NSO cares not what anyone thinks of them and cares even less about their own NS levels. So you Legion and Polar folks can argue with NSO all you want, get frustrated over what NSO says, or laugh at what they say, but you are either fueling NSO's enjoyment and/or your own, in which case you should be thanking them for having something to do. NSO if anyone has probable cause to claim you have won THE GAME(you just lost) it is you. [/quote] Maybe some people are actually playing IC.

Did not realize you guys were this old. Happy birthday.

Respectable stance, AODB.

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1319922311' post='2834669'] So your coalition was just a Paper Tiger. [/quote] This was great.

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1319920707' post='2834649'] 130 nations vs 200 nations is even? Keep up the spin, its making you look even more retarded than you already look. [/quote] Actually it was[url="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvhBDJVbPEMSdDJIY1E0U1lwZ2s5NVlXU1pjQ0JBc0E&hl=en_US#gid=0"] 236 against 224, with the coalition outnumbering Legion.[/url] Keep on spinning, it amuses the rest of us a lot.

[quote name='Krunk the Great' timestamp='1319920707' post='2834649'] 130 nations vs 200 nations is even? Keep up the spin, its making you look even more retarded than you already look. [/quote] Actually it was[url="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvhBDJVbPEMSdDJIY1E0U1lwZ2s5NVlXU1pjQ0JBc0E&hl=en_US#gid=0"] 236 against 224, with the coalition outnumbering Legion.[/url] Keep on spinning, it amuses the rest of us a lot.