Fantastico

Maybe I am reading a different Avalon update than those of you bumping this... but it sounds like they are claiming the need for a third way. Not sure if that means neutrality, but it sounds sort of like that.

Being a very small alliance, absolutely.

I was supposed to drink the rum? Also, best wishes to the UED folks. I'm also very familiar with KDII's antics.

I expect most of us will be up, but not here. Please be kind to my nation.

985 user(s) active in the past 15 minutes Nice to have such company tonight. Best wishes to all!

What in ze world does that mean?

Unconventional but certainly understandable. Good luck!

And they wonder why so few here believe anything they say now.

Yes, Mr. Bad, whatever you say.

Yep, as usual, their fake outrage is just a bit too obvious.

Their reaction to how outrageously desperate some infamous few of your allies are in their attempt to manufacture outrage? Whew, that was a mouthful, but it beats "oh, please," I guess.

Nice try. I think enough people here are familiar with several of the characters in this story and at least one of the central characters in the logs to see right through the BigBad & NPO faux outrage.

Sounds like we are in for some stormy weather ahead. Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

What ever happened to the awesomeness of being last? Like if I were ever a racing fan, I think I'd have more fun cheering for the runner/car/horse that is in last place. Plus, if that runner/car/horse passes someone, then I'd enjoy the additional excitement of having someone new to cheer for! On topic, my opinion is still very important, but not enough to start another thread on this.

Not to go against the anti-new thread crowd around here, but your post really deserves its own thread. Your words strike resoundly here, especially as I consider my alliance is one of those that could easily get rigged into either side of this depending how things roll, should this escalate.

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion with this language. As worded, especially with your stated intentions, this is a push poll, which can mean anything any of us wants it to.

I doubt most who vote "no" are fence sitters, just as I doubt that most who vote "yes" think this is a perfect war. In other words, this is a terribly phrased poll, and will not tell you what you claim you want it to tell you. Unless you are counting in these comments.

Sounds like you are missing a third option in your poll.

And this is a perfectly unbiased poll.

Good summary of where all of us are, I think. As much as it is easy to get caught up arguing in all of these threads over the minutiae, I'd still like to see this conflict brought to a speedy resolution. I'd also like to see this end with both TPF and ZH apologizing to all of us. It'd be nifty if we see no reps to anyone and we all just move on, lessons learned for all. edit: clarity

I like the honesty in the OP. If you want to put your mind at ease a little regarding where you are stuck, just remind yourself how this would be different if the roles were reversed. I am not saying that makes it better in any deep sense, but it illuminates the true nature of who you are fighting, on the battlefield and rhetorically on these forums. The only reason TPF and allies are attacking this CB is because that's what they always do. Those currently claiming "noCB" know darn well it would be a valid CB in their ways of looking at the world. You can be certain that were the shoe on the other foot they would have gone to war quickly, too. One thing they would have done very differently, however, is they would have approached TPF's current allies before the war and either persuaded or bullied them into canceling their treaties with TPF ahead of time so there would be minimal cheering and dissent in these forums. That's pretty much the only place your CB "failed," and I see that as a mark of your success in wanting to be better than them.

No matter what you think of his message, Archon actually made arguments in his thread. The AUT's post was simply a "no u," something that could just have easily been posted in response to Archon's thread since it offered nothing else of substance. It also was posted in the OOC section, which made little sense, except to emphasize that he was only speaking for himself and not an alliance or bloc or he would have posted his new thread in the alliance politics section. Perhaps if the AUT would have had included some development of his "no u" feelings, and posted in the World Affairs section, some worthwhile dialogue could have taken place in his thread. Just a guess.

Very nice post. I agree with your sentiments, especially seeing some of the chest-thumping return with such vigor. On the bright side, I see at least one significant difference from the WUT & Continuum eras, that of the reduced regulation of dissenting speech on the OWF. While it is still better than it used to be, I cringe each time I hear someone who fought the "hegemons" answer debates with the tired and pathetic answer of "do something about it." I think the truth we all know is not everyone who fought with karma believed in any of the principles some of its leaders tried to attach to it. In one form or another, the old despots will show themselves in full soon enough, as they have learned nothing other than how not to be outmaneuvered politically and militarily. In the meantime, I'm trying to enjoy this respite while it lasts.

Well, I was thinking of the rainbows and gumdrops view of democracy. You and your realpolitik! edit: Seriously, I don't have an answer for you yet, we are at the center of our timeless questions of how much people and political systems suck.

This reminds me of that "who can you trust" thread yesterday. The OP is absolutely correct that there are a lot of whacked out things leaders do that regular members would have no clue about until it is too late. How can that be changed? I think regular changes in figureheads helps, but there really is no catch-all solution in any preventative sense, especially when I see some of the larger "democratic" alliances look and act no differently than the most entrenched and corrupt governments on Planet Bob. Leaders are no more or less people than the rest of us. Their powers of intelligence are no more special or enlightened than most any one of us, no matter how self-important they act or what any fan club claims.