Fernando12

[quote name='Kongo Jack' timestamp='1293062974' post='2550644'] K, ..... away. [/quote] Just answer the simple question of when do your allies worry about your safety? When? Next war when they call on you to fight because an ally of theirs did something...wait, it wouldn't be your war so it would only be right for them to ask you to stand down. So, you guys are putting yourselves into losing situations every time there is a war because you do not do what your treaties ask of you and that is to stick together.

[quote name='King Hassan' timestamp='1293061413' post='2550604'] To all those who treat us of cowards, The Wolfpack has always defended its allies and will always do. Whatever you say will never change that. We are ready to follow our Blood For Friends to hell if necessary. Europa told us it was not because they are noble and honorable friends and allies. Their friendship and loyalty is more precious for us than our infra or nations and they feel the same about us. Thats why they are willing to protect their friends. Personally, I would have preffered they did not try to protect us. The Pack is made of Wolves. Wolves are not used to back off in the face of combat. To play this game as a Wolf means to conduct yourself with honor and put the Pack and its friends above your nation. Thats why, if someone here still think we are cowards and won't fight for our Honor... [i]do something about it.[/i] [/quote] LOL, no. You're the one's with the treaties, you fight. I love how all these alliances that stand down say we would fight and do whatever it takes and.... Yet you do not. You act all upset that your allies told you to stay out. The fact is you are glad you don't have to join the war. Wars will never be won by telling your allies to stand down. This stupid belief that it is noble to take a beating on your own is getting ridiculous, what a stupid war. [quote name='Kongo Jack' timestamp='1293062553' post='2550635'] K. Come at me bro, seriously. Anyways, if you dont like it thats not my problem. My concern is the safety of my allies, incase you didnt already notice. [/quote] You're not a hero, you're are just a sucker that got tricked into not calling them. You're worried about your allies safety? When do they worry about yours?

[quote name='TheFlyingLobster' timestamp='1293050828' post='2550311'] I think you underestimate how much Europans really care about our nations. I was thinking I might just start selling all my military and tech just to speed up the process. I'm no stranger to being ZI'd, and frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. Come at me, bro. [/quote] You [i]really[/i] feel this way? If so then your alliance is a worthless ally. You should merge and just be tech sellers within another alliance or just be a protectorate tech farm to your protectors. There is no point signing military level treaties if you are going to be so worthless to your allies and not build up your nations to a point where you can actually help provide security to your own nations and to those alliances that may have to count on you during times of war. You are not brave by not calling your allies for help, by your own post it would be pointless for them to commit themselves to such a worthless group.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1292994447' post='2549255'] If NPO wouldn't come to Invicta's aid in a war, I'd be very disappointed. [/quote] They would. But open your eyes, try to see behind the smoke.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1292993610' post='2549228'] Tiny chance? Those are all some strong bonds. And that's not why PC and iFOK bowed out; it was because they didn't want to fight friends, rather than wanting to fight an enemy. [/quote] Yes, tiny chance because NPO won't fall for this, it's a trap. That other thing going on is a sideshow, it's nothing.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1292991494' post='2549198'] Europa -> Invicta -> NPO I could probably come up with more if I spent a few seconds of thought, but that's the one that's been bouncing around in my head ever since I heard FEAR was going in. [/quote] The tiny chance of NPO stepping into this must truly be why PC and iFOK were ordered to stand down. NPO is not joining this war.

NEW is engaged at the moment. But, good of you guys to make this announcement to make it clear to the world. Might provoke some to test you guys though.

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1292986708' post='2549094'] 43 Pacifican nations in peace mode as of right now. [b]Clearly[/b] NPO hungers for war. It's just so obvious. In all honesty, though, it's not a real war without the Orders! [/quote] FEAR gets TOOL, TOOL gets TPF, TPF gets NPO. Does NPO really want to walk into a curbstomp? This will just get PB and SG all united again to beat that monster one more time. Wow, I must say it would be interesting to see Pacifica back in action, not likely though. They are clearly just doing routine maneuvers.

[quote name='Drexler Villepin' timestamp='1292909991' post='2547649'] The Sovereign See of East Timor would like to establish good diplomatic relationship with any alliance or nation who shall recognize our nation's status as ambassadorial extraordinary and plenipotentiary state. We can only offer trade partnership (resources trading and technology trading) and mediation in case of dispute with other parties concerned. [/quote] Nation to nation is really not how this world operates. I'm sure you've received recruitment messages. Join an alliance and learn about our world. Good Luck and ignore some of these people here posting stupid responses.

Is TOOL joining this war? Seems like it [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=The%20Order%20Of%20Light"]TOOL Mobilized[/url] *Last update was at 12:06pm so you can bet they have more stuff than what the alliance statistics shows.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292985218' post='2549057'] At least NEW has the balls to make the sacrifice for PC/iFOK. i am hoping that they will figure out they were thrown under the bus to save a power structure and drop PC/iFOK after this. [/quote] It's not just NEW that needs to do this re-evaluating. It's something that won't happen but many alliances like NEW that aren't the "elite" power players on Bob need to think about who their allies are. If you're not an MK, Umbrella, RoK, GOD, etc etc etc... then in situations like this where your big "friends" may have to hit their own big "friends", you will get the same type of announcement that's in this OP. A certain amount of alliances approved to hit your alliance. Sad thing is many alliances will continue to be allied to and be the meatshields of alliances in the major blocs or the sanction race. People here call for treaty resets or no new alliances forming or other measures. The measure that should take place should be that smaller alliances and alliances like NEW that aren't very politically active to STOP signing treaties with the sanctioned or near sanction or bloc alliances. Let's see how much power they can wield then. Have PB, C&G, SF, MHA, NPO, NpO, Sparta, MK, TOP, etc stand alone and see what they can do then. Their power comes from alliances like NEW that will fight for them when they decide they want a war. When alliances like NEW decide they want war they get tossed aside.

Chief, everyone understands the position that PC and iFOK would put their other allies in. Honestly, yes many want to see that happen to have PB and SG go at each other. Yes, many are using PC and iFOK's or whoever's e-lawyering to e-lawyer them about being crap allies. My main point is that many alliances that are considered elite or loyal or any other great attribute that can be bestowed, really aren't. Many alliances on Bob are Survivalist Alliances. Not honoring a treaty to avoid putting other allies in a bad spot is not what I call Survivalist. I call Survivalist Alliances those that whore themselves to every corner of the web in order to pick and choose where and when to enter after seeing what side has or will line up the most favorable alliances. All alliances need to choose their friends wisely and have a clear treaty path in order to minimize situations like this. It's impossible to guarantee that even after clearing some treaties that even those kept will not conflict, but some alliances have hordes of treaties simply to be able to choose the winning side. Any alliances that has so many damn treaties and allies with so many damn treaties all over the web are cowards.

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1292903245' post='2547495'] I could be mistaken. I swear there was a war that once it broke out, they canceled treaties to avoid something. Was it when they canceled on TPF? I dunno. I'm only a man. Never claimed to be perfect. [/quote] Is this what you're talking about? [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79126&st=0&p=2128281&hl=nusantara&fromsearch=1&#entry2128281"]NEW Neutral?[/url]

[quote name='R3nowned' timestamp='1292904766' post='2547531'] They cancelled on TPF AFTER the war, apparently cause NEW didn't agree with TPF's stance on the peace talks or something. Wasn't there for that NEW cancelled on WAPA after WAPA left them out to dry NEW cancelled on TOOL after they had a discussion and found they were going in different directions or something like that Who else am I missing? [/quote] I don't recall exactly but I do believe there was a war where NEW did not honor a treaty. Last year's Christmas war or Bipolar War? Would have to dig through the threads from around that time to find out....

[quote name='raasaa' timestamp='1292901896' post='2547463'] @ PC & iFOK Sorry if this has been brought up before.........What happens if NEW's other allies attack TPE/INT/FARK in defense of NEW ??? [/quote] I think this would be a question for TPE, INT, and FARK's allies to answer. PC and iFOK really have no say in that.

[quote name='gantanX' timestamp='1292901190' post='2547440'] To our allies at PC and iFOK as i told you guys on Private, it's OK i understand, dont worry. Thank you for all the effort during the negotiation we appreciate that, now leave this to us, we'll burn those !@#$%^&* alive.. [/quote] This statement doesn't sound like NEW asked PC and iFOK to stay out. It sounds more like PC and iFOK told NEW they were on their own. PC and iFOK taking advantage of a language barrier to write a favorable OP for themselves that NEW wouldn't understand?

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1292900615' post='2547429'] Well they weren't, so that should be the end of that. [/quote] I don't believe you

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1292900182' post='2547419'] I believe the whole argument they make hinges on the common belief that PC didn't roll due to being pressured by fellow bloc members. [/quote] With Impero worried so much about all the treaty conflicts, I'm sure you can understand why many think that PC and iFOK were pressured into staying out.

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1292897897' post='2547367'] That brings up the question: If you go against a friend's wishes to help them, are you really being a good friend? [/quote] Yes. A true friend doesn't let another friend get killed. Friend says "Let me be beaten to death". True friend says "No, I'll fight the fight with you to help you." Discussion about what led to the situation can come later. What's most important is the now which is NEW getting rolled. Later, the why can be discussed and what to do to prevent it in the future.

[quote name='RePePe' timestamp='1292896342' post='2547345'] This is open to pinpoint analysis and nitpicking galore. However, I view this the following way: 1. NEW commits an aggressive act of war against DF or remnants thereof. -As part of the optional aggression, PC/iFOK employ their right to not partake in this aggressive attack. Therefore, even during DF's retaliation against NEW, since the conflict was started aggressively, PC/iFOK can choose to remain uninvolved. 2. TPE/INT/FARK declare an aggressive war against NEW in defense of DF. -Although PC/iFOK have opted out of attacking DF, here they have no option. Their ally, NEW, has been attacked aggressively by three other alliances. Though that aggression is justified and part of a defensive side in the larger context, it does not matter. It is still inherently an aggressive war against an ally of PC/iFOK. Therefore, PC/iFOK are obligated to defend their ally as per their treaty. Of course we cannot make PC/iFOK do anything as it is their right to conduct their own affairs. However, this view of mutual defense makes the most logical sense. [/quote] This is pretty much the thinking many have. What I find frustrating is that a while ago Jack Diorno published a Survivalist Alliance thread of who broke the most treaties. Now, over a year since he wrote that topic, a Survivalist Alliance should be redefined to be those that have so many damn treaties all over the web that they can never lose a war because all they have to do is pick and choose when and which wars they will fight in, which allies they will stab in the back. A treaty is not needed to go to the aid of an alliance in need of help. A treaty is not needed to defend friends. If an alliance signs a treaty it should be with those it will fight for no matter what and those they believe will fight for them no matter what. Instead, this world is paralyzed by Survivalist Alliances. PC and iFOK should be ashamed of the fact that they in effect in the OP approved of NEW being attacked by 3 alliances. Defend your friends, if they are indeed your friends, or cancel the treaty.

Congratulations to SCY. Good luck buddy, I'm glad you've taken your talents to the Chancellor position of MCXA. Congratulations to Krunk. Use that energy you have to do well for MCXA.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1292826891' post='2546045'] I'm not surprised Pandora's Box was unwilling to go to war here and that PC/iFOK went with the PB decision. Although being a member doesn't seem to mean much when all it does for you is prevent you from going to war as your other allies burn, NEW is allied to 2 members and PB was still unable to show that they have any real power here. [/quote] Exactly. Someone should make some sigs to illustrate PB's utter failure in their first showing on the world stage.

[quote name='joracy' timestamp='1292826106' post='2546017'] Thats exactly what he said! Wait, no, it's not. NEW committed an aggressive act that caused other alliances, alliances that PC and iFOK were tied to, to defend their friends. iFOK and PC worked hard for a diplomatic settlement to this, but NEW was simply unwilling to compromise on anything. Apparently NEW even realizes what they have done, and have consented to dealing with their own issue alone, without the assistance of their allies. This is a perfectly logical stance by iFOK and PC, regardless of your attempts to spin it. [/quote] So what would you guys have done if Athens a year ago requested allies to stay out while they got rolled for their raids KoN? You would have stepped in militarily if diplomacy failed and not let Athens get rolled. You would all be spewing that you don't let allies get rolled no matter what. You guys are not only hypocrites but you all are also cowards.

[quote name='Smooth' timestamp='1292825795' post='2546004'] Hey genius, go look at the table of "conflicting treaties" involved with this and then come back and tell me how you'd handle it. Until then, stop spewing retard all over my halls. I just had them cleaned. [/quote] So honor treaties only when it suits you and allies be damned if they are not on the winning side of the web. Got it. Go away you coward this is a man's world.

[quote name='joracy' timestamp='1292825250' post='2545983'] Clearly, you have intimate knowledge on these peace talks. They were going so productively, I'm sure if PC and iFOK held off TPE INT and FARK for just one more day(Of course, you and the rest of the peanut gallery would be !@#$%*ing at them for not going in in a timely manner) NEW would have relented and we could have peace in our time! [/quote] My point stands. PC and iFOK and PB approved 3 alliances going to war against NEW. PB is a miserable failure in not having the muscle to stop this war or joining it and win it. Ally with friends that you will fight for no matter what or don't ally at all. Simple points that you did not refute.