Fernando12

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1293504026' post='2555756'] The whole point is CB can't even protect itself, he's throwing around VE's power. [/quote] So, why don't you throw around MK's power and quit crying about it.

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1293495336' post='2555635'] That nation will be protected by Celestial Being for 7 days starting today. [/quote] Your alliance itself is protected by VE? This protection you keep handing out to everyone is beginning to smell like VE wants you to do it, get called on it, and then they can step in with PB with a "CB". VE/PB needs it to be nice and simple so treaties don't conflict.

An academy is by far the most fair way to approach this. Open voting by everyone would yield stupid results like the fake ceremony of last year. I'm sure Sir Paul can once again do a good job in how he organizes the CN Academy Awards. The peoples choice version will quite honestly be a waste of time and space and just end up being spammed by the usual suspects.

[quote name='Steinfeld' timestamp='1293492657' post='2555597'] Congrats, i just think the OdoAP is funny... might as well call it an "if i feel like it" clause best of luck [/quote] Didn't your alliance have an "if i feel like it" treaty with AcTi? I'm not a fan of of ODoAP treaties either. In effect every nation or alliance has one with every nation or alliance on planet bob. ODoAPs is publicly showing your hand as to where you may join a war. MDP+ is showing your hand as to where you will (most cases) join a war. No treaties and just intervening for a cause or friendship is where the real intrigue is imo. Nobody knows when or what would cause an alliance to go to war. No treaties or very few treaties is where the men are separated from the boys. Anyways, congrats to Weveria and Pesarus on this new treaty. I'm assuming the oAP part will not be used in this case and that the [url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?search=435515&Extended=1"]Pesarus Nation Is A Rogue[/url] correct?

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1293417714' post='2554904'] The awards mean nothing, so the manner in which winners are decided matters little in my opinion. Whether through public polls or a select academy people will be biased or otherwise make uneducated/ridiculous votes. [/quote] You mean just like the real Oscars, so then I say why not.

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1293410890' post='2554770'] Not true. Alliances are "teams". Teams are composed of members that [i]rely[/i] on one another. There's no point in joining a team if you can't be counted on. Likewise, there's no point in keeping those that you can't count on. I mean, this is something that human civilization has figured out thousands of years ago - there's no point in struggling with the idea... [/quote] I agree. So did you expel or ask anyone to leave the AA? I wonder what you think of large "teams" like MHA.

[quote name='PotFace' timestamp='1293410226' post='2554763'] You know what we all ought to do? Have alliances offer up their stagnant players as "poker chips" in a poker tournament, to do with as they see fit. Sure, everyone has the [i]right[/i] to be stagnant, but when it's at others' expenses, well, that's a different story. If you want to be stagnant, then go rogue. If you want to mooch without paying your dues, then your dues should be forcefully taken from you. [/quote] How is it "at others' expenses"? There is really no way that inactive members cost anyone anything.

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1293392898' post='2554519'] Ah the irony. Don't you still believe in the VEto? [/quote] Never did, that was Methrage. Read the damn topic again and you will see that I was asking VE members questions based on some of them understanding that the VEto was actually real. You do know how to read right?

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1293392773' post='2554516'] That's kind of a dick move, he wants to punish his former lazy members, why not let him? [/quote] If any alliance can circumvent WC's proclamation it's GOONS You all should test the protection.

Good luck finding new homes. I hope you gave the 32 members enough time to find new alliances and that this announcement is not as sudden as it appears. Anyways, good luck.

[quote name='Scorbolt' timestamp='1293386590' post='2554444'] Yes, any alliance with a former member from GPA, WTF, TDO, GoP etc. etc. that goes to war should result in rolling neutrals. Makes perfect sense. [/quote] You take everything so seriously or you are a bit dumb.

[quote name='mrcalkin' timestamp='1293386445' post='2554440'] Nice evade with that insult, but you still miss the point. When you sign treaties, at least in my alliance, we expect there to be some influence back and forth, but never dictation of what must be done going either way. If it got to that point, the relationship would be over. The United States must be a pretty sad little alliance if you allow other alliances to command your FA as you seem to believe is normal. That or you need to read that dictionary you were referring Trouble Terrible to. [/quote] As a 3 month old protectorate, yes our FA is dictated and limited. Umbrella has had 3 years to build and forge its way here. Or were we supposed to form and immediately have a bloc, 8k+ average tech/infra, full WRCs, nukes, war chests, etc.???? If that's how Umbrella did it then please give everyone the easy button you guys used to magically be what you are today. Oh, right it took you guys 3 years it will most likely take us just as long. Alliances will not command our FA. Our eventual treaty path will be clear. We will not whore ourselves out to every corner of the web to pick and choose the winning side. We won't abandon allies. Put it this way, if a NEW type situation developed down the road we would fight for our allies and not approve of them being rolled by 3 alliances. We would go to war and sort out the actions that led to war after peace has been secured.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1293386041' post='2554434'] Nice skirmish. What about NEW? [/quote] They say NEW would need to apologize or suffer enough NS loss to where this coalition thinks NEW would have learned their lesson.

[quote name='raasaa' timestamp='1293381190' post='2554406'] This has to be weirdest war with all alliances getting reinforcements from their buddies. NEW is getting reinforcements from all over planet bob, INT is getting reinforcements from LSF, SOS, NEAT etc, Fark is getting reinforcements from Guru Order, Creole, TENE, WTF etc....so far i think only The Profilic Empire is playing fair and sticking to the agreement that was made o/ TPE [/quote] WTF is fighting So much for neutrality, they should be rolled

[quote name='Dogs of War' timestamp='1293380169' post='2554399'] Yes, but that goes both ways. Those nations that we are fighting are also in nuke anarchy , so those lower tier nations [i]have to[/i] engages us, or we will slip into peace mode and re-arm. [/quote] True it does go both ways and it's possible that you could slip into peace mode, change your government, re-arm, and re-engage where ever you please. Don't count on it though. There are plenty of nuke/SDI capable nations that will be ready to stagger you guys as wars expire. You should expect to be staggered and fighting 3 nations once you reach the lower tiers and that those nations that do engage you will be the most ready nations with nukes and SDI. You should expect that and hope a few are lucky enough to slip into peace mode to regroup.

[quote name='Dogs of War' timestamp='1293378628' post='2554385'] I think you are missing my point. Fark and International have about 1/2 of their nations at 30k or less. The majority of them do not have nukes and I assume they wont have SDI's. Once we reach their level and start engaging them with nukes. How long will they have the will to fight once they( the 30K and lower nations) realize that they dont have anything to counter us? That is when the lower tier starts to crumble. You will see nations that refuse to engage, complaining on their alliance forums that they need help or money, and start surrendering individually. Once the moral starts to fade, and alliances start having to put out the fires internally. That is when the peace talks really start. [/quote] You're assuming you will be out of anarchy and not staggered and into peace mode to change your government to be able to engage these low tier nations? These lower tier nations don't have to engage you. As you drop in NS so will those that you are fighting. We'll just have to wait and see how these engagements go.

[quote name='Dogs of War' timestamp='1293346531' post='2554221'] Actually, my ability to cause as much damage as possible increases. The smaller my NS goes, the odds are better that I will battle an opponent with less wonders, ie MP,SDI,WRC,CIA. They are probably less experienced also, so they might not have learned all the tricks along way. Now that might not be as glamorous as a nation with 20k infra and 20k tech, but lets get real here. The majority of fighting goes on in the mid and lower tiers. [/quote] Wars are never won because the low tiers 40k NS and below took a beating. When the 80k+ NS nations with billions for warchest begin to run low on cash, that is when the war is over and where the war is won. The low tiers are easily rebuilt from the nothing they have, your high wonder nation is not.

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1293371244' post='2554336'] What? I didn't see the coalition "word it favorably" at all, would you like to provide evidence? "simple minds are amused by simple things" You would be amazed that simple minded people are usually the most happy out of all people. So me seeing you say this as some kind of despising manner actually gave me a good chuckle. FEAR, Europa and Paragon did fight for their allies, they even posted a DoW , NEW approved of them leaving the field so you have no ground to try and defile their name. WFF did not want to be part of the talks which is their choice. In the end does not really matter much. [/quote] I'm not defiling them, PC nations are on the NEW AA fighting. It is my hope that this gets the AAs ITT peace but that nations from these "surrendered" AAs move to the NEW AA to fight. Your first line..."word it favorably", well FARK, TPE, and INT are still fighting NEW so no I cannot provide evidence of a peace announcement for a war that has not ended. You and Ernesto Che need to "read more good". Maybe then we will be able to have an actual discussion, he quoted part of what I said and got out of it that I wanted money/tech reparations when I was simply pointing out the stupidity of reviews or haikus or limericks as peace terms. Simply said, I hope the surrendered alliances ITT if they actually want to fight jump on the NEW AA and make things harder on the coalition than it already is. Odds of 4:1 are so far at this early stage showing to be not enough for this coalition.

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1293354708' post='2554274'] Do you honestly believe this to be the case? An alliance does not surrender because the top demands it. When an alliance surrenders, you can be assured that it is a movement from the bottom up. I love your self-serving logic. When we declare victory, it won't be a real victory -- because you said so! Ironically, it's the alliances like your own that will benefit most from our actions. Do you not even recognize that this war is being fought in some degree to protect legitimacy of protection? You yourself are shielded by the protection of FEAR. If we were to roll over and allow this incursion, it would weaken the entire notion of the protectorate agreement. It's sad that you can't see past your narrow-minded partisanship. -Craig [/quote] The shortness of this war and PC's tactics, I hope these "surrendered" alliances are about to employ the same tactics. Self-serving logic? We'll see how beat up NEW is compared to its opposition. FEAR does not protect my alliance, The United States is protected by The Federation of Allied Republics (FAR). The notion of a protectorate agreement is only valid or strong if an alliance is able to back it up. You guys are backing it up but overall, if you guys don't get NEW to pay reps or apologize and you all end up giving white peace then your coalition will have failed. It's only my opinion. I'm sure you and your allies and friends on the sidelines will make it seem like you guys actually did something.

[quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1293336798' post='2553995'] We have agreed to the below terms: 1) The forces of FEAR, Europa, and Paragon do hereby surrender to The Orange Defense Network, Sparta, The Prolific Empire, and the International. 2) FEAR, Europa, and Paragon agree to remain neutral for the remainder of the ongoing conflict. This includes refraining from combat and aiding any combatants in the current conflict. 3) FEAR, Europa, and Paragon shall each write either a review of OJ or a Haiku on Oranges or a Limerick on Oranges. [/quote] 1) FEAR, Europa, and Paragon shall now proceed to fight like Poison Clan, something they should have done in the first place. Guerrilla warfare is the best warfare. 2) Only something you can really require of the government of those AAs, general membership can continue the fight simply by switching AAs. 3) As usual the "winners" are requiring stupid and idiotic terms because simple minds are amused by simple things. Peace in our time? Not really as these are not individual nation surrender terms, FEAR, Europa, and Paragon go fight for your allies if you are truly allies. Also why is WFF not in this? They must be causing so much damage that this coalition will require actual reps. [quote name='sir pwnage' timestamp='1293348515' post='2554243'] Probably not. We realize that they have no intention of apologizing, so we'll probably just beat them until we think they've learned their lesson, then offer white peace without any terms. Of course, they could apologize and end it early, but that won't happen, because they're such kind people [/quote] Your coalition will cry uncle first, make the announcement to end the war, and hope it gets lost in translation. I hope NEW fights and they make the peace announcement so your coalition does not try to word it favorably. You guys will quit first and make it sound like you won.

[quote name='mrcalkin' timestamp='1293343683' post='2554161'] Influencing and dictating are two different things but I don't assume you will be able to understand that. [/quote] You're right, I am not able to understand that as well as Umbrella. You guys fully understand the difference. You are dictated to and you influence nothing.

[quote name='Trouble Terrible' timestamp='1293333408' post='2553942'] Perhaps this is the reality that "The United States" of CN is faced with; here in our own corner we view our allies not as superiors but as brothers, and those relationships are marked by a mutual respect and understanding whereby we work with one another and not to the exclusion of one another. The very idea of somehow "dictating" someone's foreign affairs is repugnant to us - as repulsive as the idea of an ally directing our own direction. I now understand your bitterness towards GOONS, PB, MK et al.. What a miserable existence you must have. [/quote] My existence is great, loving every minute of it and it will only get better. You can't read, sad really. In effect by signing treaties, events that occur with allies and allies of allies dictate what an alliance's foreign policy will be. The simple solution to not having any outside events influencing an alliance is by being completely neutral. Do you understand that concept? Maybe grab a dictionary if you don't understand simple words.

[quote name='Stefano Palmieri' timestamp='1293327377' post='2553879'] Yup you heard it here first, =LOST= is bailing on C&G so ODN is treatying us so that they can get closer to MK despite having a MDoAP with them. Anyway o/ODN o/Us [/quote] Wow, I missed MK re-acquiring the meatshield back in October Where the hell was I? Meh.

probably because LOST is going to be bailing out on C&G so ODN wants to keep that MK connection.

[quote name='Franz Joseph I' timestamp='1293297827' post='2553634'] That wasn't the point of it you peasant. The idea was simply trying to increase the interest and numbers of nations of that era since he studies it and finds it interesting. However, the members of the nobility understand that simple peasants can not understand much and always resort to silly stories. [/quote] Whatever. I recall an announcement with a bunch of flags for some sort of bloc. It looked awesome, then most of the "alliances" in it were less than a handful of nations. The Great Britain alliance, the guy that was supposed to be the puppet seemed to not even know he was supposed to be on the AA. The entire thing was a complete farce and failure you arrogant, pompous, self proclaimed noble.