Bordiga

Thank you for posting those logs once again Solaris, it is good to be reminded of Impero's haughty, officious and rude manner. Oh VE, what champions of justice to bravely seek the decimation of your rivals based on any possible CB you could find. I remember how a certain alliance did just that with GATO and Chris Kaos, GPA with Lord Swampy and FAN with small infractions in observing terms. How times have changed. Good to see the return of comrade Doitzel into the diplomatic arena once again. Political bankrupts like Bob Janova should be shamed. I do wish for his recovery from the pernicious Vladimir's Disease, but I do not hold out much hope.

This topic makes me feel embarassed for CSN. Talk about a reasonable reaction.

[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1297889622' post='2635892'] Actually it's pretty common later in wars when there are 3 nations nuking a nation once a day while he can nuke all three of them each day. [/quote] Thank you. I certainly have not observed this as "common" in any of the global wars I have watched over the years in the Sanction Race, but if you say so. It is at any rate a moot point. [quote] I thought this wasn't allowed to get sanction. Quite sad.[/quote] Vox Populi did it to TOP in order to drive GGA off the last sanctioned spot- except in TOP's case Vox did not add any score really, it was just to get TOP's mebership over 200.

[quote name='Rocky Horror' timestamp='1297871945' post='2635684'] The MK nations ghosting SNAFU are worth about 1.78 score, if I read the formula correctly. [/quote] Well apparently CCC isn't involved anymore anyway, so that would mean that the NPpO side lost more anyway.

My alliance attacked the United Blue Directorate in defense of our allies, NEAT, on an Optional Defense Clause. We left the conflict about 2 days later with white peace. The Sandwich Confederation are clearly monsters who need to be put down for this injustice.

[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1297845798' post='2635499'] I'll go ahead and beat the people from VE's side as saying that's a stupid thing to say because 3 points matters more to a coalition of 270 points than a coalition of 420 points. [/quote] Um thanks for pointing out the obvious Shodemofi, I love being condescended to by people. I'd say it's pretty rare when the smaller side inflicts more damage than the larger, which is clearly why it's not "stupid" to point it out. Unless you want to give other examples to the contrary.

Good to see that the Viridians and co. actually lost more score yesterday than the Orders' side.

Congratulations comrades of the LSF.

I'm pleased to see that RIA will stand by the SOS Brigade. It would be a great shame if you abandoned them simply because of the biting rhetoric of the Penkalas and Herenos of the world. Well done RIA.

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1297651906' post='2632019'] Somebody's mad? CSN had to pay stupid reps to the Hegemony(because all reps are stupid) in the GATO-1v War. They fought in Karma against the unjustices the Hegemony did from post-UJW-Karma War. Now they are asking for ridiculous reps too. [/quote] I don't think you understand Ryan, Blueski subscribes to the Xiphosis school of foreign affairs where blatant hypocrisy is perfectly fine because "we can get away with it." After all, being internationally discredited as a two-faced bully never came back to bite anyone.

[quote name='blueski' timestamp='1297651592' post='2632009'] And why shouldn't they? Try arguing that without spinning it into an eternal struggle between justice and depravity. CSN can do whatever the hell they want, if you don't like it you should do something besides run your mouth. [/quote] There are plenty of perfectly mundane, actual reasons for them not to, which involve recognising that actions have consequences in a social environment whether you want them to or not. I wouldn't expect the sociopath brigade in GOONS to be able to understand basic social skills or diplomacy though, that wouldn't fit in with your whole image would it.

[quote name='Fronz' timestamp='1297650908' post='2631974'] That's ok, I'm sure your warchest will not survive a prolonged war against...THE SUPERFRIENDS! [/quote] Utterly pathetic.

While I'm not surprised by "hurr durr optional treaties aren't real" Xiphosis, who no doubt can't lie straight in bed, I am surprised to see CSN sink so low. DT clearly got involved in defense of an ally just as CSN did in defending Legacy. It's clear there should be white peace. The argument that DT deserves to be crippled for attacking "during peace talks" as is claimed is farcical, what, were your feelings hurt? As far as I am aware war does not end when peace talks begin. If that whinging big nose Xiphosis and his cronies in CSN didn't want to deal with such a "slight" then they should never have gotten involved against DT's allies. Simple. Blow them to hell DT.

[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1297619092' post='2631247'] I get a kick out of how we're always painted as the bad guys when in reality we are usually just supporting a friend who asked us, much like the TPF war, where we only went in because other's couldn't pull their act together and get folks online. Xiph may wind up being drafted into being the frontman/talker in a lot of our coalition wars, but that doesn't mean we're always the folks who decided to take it to war in the first place. Calling us guardians of virtue is a joke, and there's only a few times we've ever acted like we were, both in regards to the Orders. We wanted NPO and their peace nations forced to take a round or two of wars, specifically so this exact war wouldn't take place again. And recently when we were trying to white knight for Polar to give them a fair chance when we felt they were being persecuted unfairly. Other then those two, we're pretty much down for whatever's needed, morality be screwed.[/quote] This thread is about Kalasin complaining about the history of the Orders. I'm simply pointing out that the other side, despite its claims, has done exactly the same thing as NPO. If GOD doesn't want to deny that then great, that means you have integrity in being scum. [quote]Telling the none groups to scatter isn't the same as forcing them from the game. Several of the leaders in fact joined Andromeda, but don't let that spoil your version of events. Again, not our call, the war wasn't ours, you'd want to talk to to the dude mentioned below about that[/quote] They were given individual terms and attacked for existing when most of them were in small communities that they had never not been a part of. My correct version of events recalls perfectly the treachery of three nations, of which only one could have been described a leader in LoFN, who joined Andromeda. Two hundred minus three equals? [quote]You need to learn like we did after the war was over, not to trust anything told to you from him. I remember Pacifica not being happen to have none cells hiding partially on red abusing their protection, but not really caring enough to do something about it either. The only time I know of that NPO greenlighted an attack of ours, was when they coordinated with dropping Illuminati for their betrayal seconds before we hit them. [/quote] Fine. [quote name='Mixoux' timestamp='1297626128' post='2631331'] Just a fun fact: Peggy Sue was one of the members we supposedly 'forced from the game'. [/quote] Peggy_Sue was a member of TPF government at the time. Might want to make a better effort.

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1297582011' post='2631031'] Uh, no NPO would not have assisted GOD directly in that war; they had no interest in it. The only way in which they supported the war was that they gave permission to GOD's coalition to attack The Red Rose, which I still feel to have been the first mistake that led to the eventual destruction of Revenge. If you think the GATO war occupied their armed forces, then you weren't paying attention to what was going on at the time. And yes, Z'ha'dum (may he rest in pieces) vocally supported the war. However, people really do tend to give his statements too much weight; it was a long time ago that he was even vaguely high up on the totem pole. Probably his greatest achievement was being Legion viceroy, which is something of a strange legacy to say the least. [/quote] Ok. It's irrelevant if they did in that case work together or not. The point is that both coalitions are filled with scum. I was under the impression that NPO would have gotten involved due to a conversation I had with Ephriam Grey at the time when he said just that. It did strike me as strange that they would feel that they were overcommitted, but they certainly did display enough glee at the event as to dispel those doubts. It was not just Zha'dum but also Bakunin's Dream.

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1297554932' post='2630686'] You're grasping at straws here. Wouldn't it be a bit more logical to place the blame for that directly on GOD and Xiphosis, rather than qualifying the remark with "NPO supported". [/quote] I'm not grasping at straws, the primary point of that post is to lambast those responsible- which is GOD, VE's pet Ephriam and Andromeda and Argo, which merged into VE. I'm just pointing out that in this case those supposed guardians of virtue were happy to work hand in hand with NPO. I didn't really think I actually had to make the case for NPO being an alliance which has imposed viceroys, kept alliances in eternal war, driven people from the game and disbanded alliances.

All I can remember about the crimes of SOS Brigade is that they resisted being provoked into war by some reprehensible alliance which couldn't string two sentences together. And all I know about Invicta is that Learz is a cool cat and that a lot of big mouthes give them a hard time for apparently nothing. So congrats to both of you, I don't know what all the fuss is about, but the people looking bad out of this aren't Invicta and SOS, that's for sure.

The Global Order of Darkness forced 200 nations from the game during the LoFN conflict in a war supported by the NPO, who would have also assisted except they were busy installing a viceroy over GATO. So yeah I'm not seeing how either side is any better.

If you think that there is no difference between religious movements against oppression and religious justification for oppression, guess I am "no better than the people I claim to hate." That post you wrapped in quotation marks but obviously didn't read actually argues that communists need to convince people of a material analysis of society and its problems, but that we are not "against religion" as an all defining rule. That is hardly suggesting that communists should use religion to "manipulate" people. I think most people can see how ridiculous your post is though.

Pala, as with every political issue, the stance of leftists to religion cannot be the same in every single case without understanding other factors. So while I would agree with you that religion is "a potential useful tool of coercion for illegitimate authority" and that religion plays a mystifying and obscuratory role to the understanding of society, that is only potentially. There have existed religious movements which have united the oppressed against their oppressors, even inspiring revolts against class society in its totality way back in the medieval age. And obviously today to line up with the so-called secularists who want to persecute women who wear the Hijab or burqa is to support reactionary Islamophobia. So while I obviously agree that communists should be clear about analysing society in a materialist way that rejects obscurantism, I think it's pretty incorrect to say that we should "hate" religion in all circumstances.

Communists are secularists. Only stalinist regimes that seek to smash opposition to their monolithic rule make a cult out of atheism. I love the title of this treaty. Congrats to both alliances.

I happen to be quite sure both of what is on the Sandwich Confederation's wiki as well as what is actually the opinion of our membership. We have treaties with NEAT, BN and NAC. Who among those alliances is actually at war and which side are they on? Once you figure out that answer and add in the fact we have already defended NEAT, surely you can come to the conclusion that SC, as befits our own statements, is not aligned to any side in the conflict.

Surely they are servants of the workers and not the people. This isn't the International Brotherhood of Liberals is it. FC back in his predestined position I see.

One of the five? What absurdity. Guess that proves... nothing. Given you are a confirmed liar, and that we covered every nation in UBD that was in war mode above 20,000 NS, I find it very unlikely that there were all these wonderful warchests out there just waiting to be discovered. You would have led your alliance that you are now ditching so blithely into a destructive and pointless continuation of war, and no doubt refused responsibility as well.

Congratulations on the white peace UBD. You entered a war to defend your ally as did we, I'm glad we could part ways once MCXA surrendered. Mdnss69, I suggest you actually stop whinging and instead of joining an alliance that actually admitted to surrendering, do something to back up your words. Hell, if it wasn't for me arguing continually with BN, NEAT and SC members that your idiocy should be disregarded UBD would still be at war. [quote= Madness]We spent a fraction of our warchests in our wars against BN, SC and NEAT. Several of the members still have well over a billion left in savings. [/quote] Another tall tale. The largest warchest in the alliance was just over 1 billion, belonging to a nation in peace mode with 60,000 NS. Your largest nation (no longer) had a war chest less than half that. The overall picture of UBD was far worse with most warchests inadequate. The nation I was fighting, with 25,000 NS only had 51 million and now has only 30 million. If the war had last even one week it would have devastated UBD. At least UBD will emerge from this conflict with one less useless embarrassment of a leader.