Joe Izuzu

I have already stated my position as regards DH's claims of insufficient toadyism on the part of NPO. You got from us exactly what you put forward. End of story. If you don't like it, then look in the mirror and change your own behavior. As far as us dropping those allies that have shed blood with us - not a fricking chance in hell. Friends > Infra. Friends > Political Expediency. And sure as hell Friends > Worthless Butthurt Megalomaniacs with Inferiority Complexes.

You won't get any argument from me. As far as I am concerned, and as I have stated already, FAN is justified. Teaming up with DH was a logical move. The issues that I have sit squarely in DH's lap, in that they were not justified. The fact that they have backpedaled, changed their rationale for why their attack on an uninvolved party was necessary, and generally thrown out any unfounded charge they can get their hands on simply demonstrates that they don't even believe they were justified. If you are going to try to sway public opinion, it is generally better to maintain a decent level of consistency in your logic, rather than let your arguments change direction like a weather vane in a swirling wind.

[quote name='Itsuki Koizumi' timestamp='1296288314' post='2609225'] Don't you have better things to do rather than write a doc no one will actually read? Do something that helps Pacifica, say... I dunno, come out of PM and help out? [/quote] Oh noes! Yet another peace-mode dig. I am sure that he is pierced to the quick.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1296280088' post='2608909'] I'm not reading all that, but welcome to the war anyway, you just made my night. I can't wait to figure out what [I]your[/I] terms are going to be. [/quote] [quote name='Itsuki Koizumi' timestamp='1296283286' post='2609057'] Another alliance we shall disband in the CN holocaust. [/quote] [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1296284002' post='2609094'] [i]Great read as always, Shattenman![/i] Yea man, you pretty much hit the Bye Polar lottery with this one. [/quote] And there you find the validation of his announcement. Keep digging guys; your graves aren't deep enough yet. o/ CoJ

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296276632' post='2608637'] Quite a few alliances still want little to do with you that aren't tied to us; quite telling. We weren't terribly wounded, but it certainly gave us a reminder as to why we disliked you in the first place. For lack of a better term, it put you back on our radar instead of being an afterthought in our minds. Further, that pride you speak of was an immense roadblock in mending our relations towards any sense of amicable status. Those passive aggressive pot shots, and outright slaps in the faces of our members did wonders at burning the already charred ashes of things. Truly, if you were willing to move forward you'd have atleast tried to mend things between us. But you didn't. MK can be quite forgiving, as our relations with TOP show today. [/quote] Of course there are alliances that have no desire to get closer to us, just as there are those that we wish to keep at arm's reach. As for the pride, I would think that should be easy enough to understand. We held together through an ordeal that was just about as demanding as any ever endured by an alliance on Bob. We got stomped in a massive beat down, were incarcerated for a year, paid the largest reps in history, but we emerged unbroken and whole. You wouldn't be proud? And if you are constantly heckled, harassed and baited, you wouldn't respond in kind? As I mentioned in the FAN thread, diplomacy is a bidirectional process. Unless there is reciprocity, no progress can be made. I do not believe that you can look me in the virtual eye and honestly claim that MK ever made any legitimate effort to mend fences with us. Frankly, I don't think you can even claim to have been neutral in your dealings with us. I can say that for me, personally, MK was not at the height of my hate list coming out of Karma, or even coming out of reps. That is not to say that I ever liked you guys, but there was a time that I respected you for your dedication to your allies and for your overall competencies. Even now there are a couple of you that I respect. That being said, I don't think that anyone ever had any expectation that MK and NPO would become buddies. I do not believe that getting closer to you was ever perceived as being a viable option and I do not believe that you ever did a single thing to encourage us to modify that belief. [quote]Theoretically speaking, if we were to end this war tomorrow and we offered you an genuine olive branch and second chance. Would you be willing to move towards better relations between our parties? Or would you repeat your past course which drove you into the current predicament. Personally, speaking I don't have much of a grudge against your alliance; rather your just the present enemy to debate with these days. So I'm curious of your response, because the last instance this happened it would seem to prove the latter course. [/quote] Well, at this point the hate runs strong and deep. People don't respond well to being ganged up on by a block that has absolutely no concrete justification for the attack. This is especially true for members like myself that have only been in the Order for a couple of years, which is roughly 50% of the membership. The ostensible reasons for the attacks in Karma and now are punishment for transgressions that occurred before we ever joined. I do not argue that Karma was undeserved, since I was not here to observe the causes of the grievances that led to Karma. However, you can only be tried and sentenced once for a crime. That criminal proceeding has already taken place and we served our sentence. So what you are doing is vigilantism. And that justifiably angers us. That being said, I do not believe in holding grudges or seeking vengeance just for the sake of vengeance and, according to his statements, neither does Emperor Cortath. But even in the best case scenario, if we were to walk away from each other with a white peace, I think relations would max out at being neutral toward each other and it would be naive to expect any improvement on that for quite some time. However, if we could agree to maintain civil discourse both in our embassies and in the OWF, it would go a long way toward ameliorating hostilities. I truly do not believe that we have any intent to try to dominate the world and I don't believe that is a viable goal in any case. Do we want to regain the number 1 spot again? Sure. Do we want to have a secure sphere of influence? Certainly. But do we want to control every other alliance? I honestly do not believe that is the case.

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296274498' post='2608510'] [font="Tahoma"]Actually, history proves that when one is defeated they must wait in the wings to recover enough strength to reclaim what they've lost. We waited 4 years under your rule before we had enough guns to take you down the first time. It's simply strategic and tactically sound to adapt such a strategy. As I said earlier, if you would have had the power to retake your position you'd act on it. Just like I would if I were in your shoes, or anyone else who isn't neutral but in a position to claim the throne of the world.[/font] [font="Tahoma"] [/font] [font="Tahoma"]Don't take us for fools.[/font] [/quote] You project your own inadequacies and hostilities onto us, that much is clear. However, we are not you. We do not labor under your pathetic insecurities. So please do not make statements as to what we would do, since you have no foundation on which to make such a prediction.

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296274090' post='2608489'] [font="Tahoma"]For a moment, we were not calling for your heads. It was ever so brief, but only due to the fact that you all did not seek a restoration of relations between ourselves nor anyone else in Doom-House from what I gather. Instead you took pot-shots at us from your ant-hill resident Sir Paul, you kick-banned former Pacificans residing in MK from your channel, you closed our embassy after banning various envoys for simply showing themselves on your boards, if this is the Pacifican definition of "fairness and reason" then I suppose you still haven't changed for the better. The reason you were assaulted, is not because we were stuck in the past; rather because you continued to hemorrhage relations and we could not in good-faith let you slip back onto that ant-hill and poke at our feet without some retribution any longer; along with other reasons I've stated in various other threads debating the cause of this war. I trust that the world will soon see that we aren't as bad as you think we are and willing to move on beyond hinging on every action produced in our epoch and continuing rivalry.[/font] [/quote] Translation of the above: butt-hurt that we didn't kiss your collective asses and, like a mirror, reflected your own BS back at you. In point of fact, you are stuck in the past. It is the fact that we are not and are actively trying to move forward, that you feel threatened. If we were simply continuing in the mold of the past, nobody would want to have anything to do with us. I will grant you that we are not inclined to kowtow to all and sundry; we have our pride. That includes kick-banning punks who are abusive in our channel. It also includes abusive "diplomats" that create vile, insulting and derogatory threads in an embassy. But you cannot produce a single episode where we have taken malicious action against anyone. And I find it ironic that MK, of all alliances, could be so terribly wounded by OWF jabbing that you would feel that it justified war. When you claim that we "continued to hemorrhage relations" it is you that are being thoroughly disingenuous. As you well know.

Nice attempt at a shout down, OY, but you fail. The fact is that we have made many attempts to expand our circle of friendly associations. We have acted with fairness and reason with everyone that has been willing to extend the same courtesy to us. What we haven't done is cozy up to alliances that actively preach our destruction. Alliances that seek to keep us isolated. Alliances that have threatened, extorted, assaulted and abused those around them. In short, alliances like yours. Yes, we still labor under the stains of the past, despite the fact that we have paid more in restitution than any other alliance ever. We have acknowledged the transgressions of the past, despite your baseless claims to the contrary. The reason that you have assaulted us is not because we have sat on our hands, but because the circle of alliances that do not actively hate us and that are willing to consider moving forward in the future, albeit gradually, has been steadily growing. Despite what happens in this war, we will continue to move forward because we actually have learned from the past. You, on the other hand, have not. And you will eventually suffer a similar reckoning as the number of nations on Bob grow weary of your hypocrisy and hate mongering.

Well, at least KoH has the balls and the honor to stand by its agreements. Also, props to you for making a legitimate announcement on the OWF. Although some larger alliances find it funny to disrespect smaller alliances who are acting honorably, I do not subscribe to that philosophy. Props to you, KoH.

What will be, will be. I simply advise those that think that they can repeat the mistakes for which Pacifica was punished in Karma, that their own retribution will come. No dynasty lasts forever. In this war, you have an alliance which is being subjected to double jeopardy. While I admit that FAN has not been able to enjoy the sweet fruit of retribution, the others involved in this travesty have. FAN is entitled to its vengeance. The fungi, and the other alliances which they have infested, are not. You are justified in your attack, even if some may deride you for riding on the coattails of other alliances in order to achieve it. The others have no such justification. They claim that we should have coddled up to them. I do not subscribe to that notion. Diplomacy is a two way street. MK and company never did anything except abuse Pacifica, both in and out of terms. They whine about closing their embassy and expelling their diplomats? Perhaps their diplomats should not have been actively abusive, slinging insults and making pejorative posts purposely designed to inflame the indignation of those with whom they were supposedly engaging in diplomacy. Perhaps they should not have engaged in organized mass raids designed to damage our ability to peacefully conduct commerce in our sphere. Perhaps they should not have engaged in the same kind of derogatory posting for which they condemn us. As I said, diplomacy is a bidirectional process. There has not been any time since Karma in which MK and Co. have demonstrated anything other than hate, derision and ill intent toward us. For them to claim that we are to blame for our lack of civil relations, is at best, disingenuous. The world at large knows that what I have posted here is true. The allies of MK and Co. almost certainly do not care, which puts them in the same shoes as those worn by alliances which supported NPO during its time of power and abuse. They have found that it is easy to deny what is right when it is politically expedient to do so. The rest of the world that are not actively supporting MK and Co., may believe, with some justification, that they are not positioned at this time to do anything about the injustice. I cannot condemn them for that. I will simply say, that as Pacifica was humbled, so too will MK and Co. be humbled in their turn. In the meantime, Atrophis, I sincerely hope that you enjoy your moment in the sun. Just remember that the weather is a fickle mistress and that sunny days can sometimes turn stormy with but a moment's notice. (edited for minor typos)

[quote name='atrophis' timestamp='1296260916' post='2608182'] Quote this for future reference. By the end of this war, you will be doing at least 3 of those. You can pick which ones it will be. [/quote] I respect FAN. Although I joined NPO after Viet-FAN started and only shortly before it ended, my admiration for your fortitude is immense. However, if you believe that attribute is one that is only maintained by you and yours, you are sorely mistaken. We may, and probably will, suffer attrition. It happened in Karma and it may happen now, even though most of the fair weather members have already shown their colors and left. The vast majority of NPO members, like myself, are not concerned with the power of our individual nations, but rather with the bond we have forged among ourselves. You, as a member of FAN, should be able to understand that. I will not strike my colors, even if this unjust aggression continues for 1,2,3,4 or more years. And I am a relatively new member, with only 2 years under my belt. I was not deterred in Karma, which was certainly justified in many respects. I will not be deterred as a result of this completely unjustified pogrom. I believe, with a certainty that has been fortified by the trial of adversity, that my fellow members with far more time invested in their commitment to Pacifica than I will not abandon her simply because some slavering hyenas have decided to snip at her heals. Pacifica will endure. As my namesake in another universe once said, "You have my word on it."

Thoughtful and accurate.

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1296198706' post='2607101'] NPO will break long before NpO does. [/quote] Keep on thinking that, my pointy-headed little friend.

Hail Pacifica!

It appears that Tony has some rather deep seated issues....

Good show R&R.

It is a nice one. By the way, congratulations. You nefarious plot to ensnare unwary travelers by posting a link to a 2 year old thread nabbed a not so observant victim.

[quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1296108267' post='2604872'] I have been a member of FAN for over 4 years. The thread you are referencing was simply one of many FAN operations designed to discredit NPO in the eyes of the masses and I have to say that thread was awesome. Forcing IO's to come to the OWF to defend their actions during wartime has hilarious and we all had a roaring good laugh about it back in the FAN party bunker while it was going on. The fact that even now, even after I linked you to the post, you failed to see the obvious is just all the more more awesome. Regarding my current position. Yes I am in peace mode. It was tough to do but my entire group was ordered to do it so I did. Don't worry though, I can absolutely, 100% guarantee you that I will be out in a short while and will be declaring on NPO members. As to my nation size. I'm 4,400 NS and 750 days old. The reason I'm so small is because I am a "tail end charlie". My job is to watch the low end of our NS range and engage those in the lower ranges who wish to do us harm. That's why I am carrying a stockpile of nukes. You guiys called those types of nations Super Soldiers or OSS squads. Except ours have nukes. Nothing like nuking a 4K nation who just wont listen to reason. I am this small by choice and need to be to perform a very specific job. Your post has failed on every level. [/quote] Nah, as I confirmed to mpol, I was well aware of the probability that you were a spy. My rant was more directed at the real deserters every war; not just from NPO but from any alliance. I am glad to hear that you are strategically deployed. Perhaps when/if I get beaten down to your level, we can meet up and have some fun.

Have fun guys. o/ NAC

The.Best.Damn.Allies.Ever o/ TPF!

Welcome 64D. Have fun out there. o/ 64Digits

Thank you. o/ Regnum Invictorum

Thank you. o/ Legion

[quote name='mpol777' timestamp='1296105966' post='2604702'] Wow. Really? Wow. You really don't see it? [/quote] That he was a FAN spy? Sure, but since the possibility existed that he wasn't, it felt good to rant a bit. Anyway, mpol, you and FAN have fun. You, at least, are justified in your actions. The other pathetic fungi that have managed to ooze out from under their collective rocks - not so much.

[quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1296101133' post='2604153'] Probably all 3. ==> http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=55874&st=0 (ooc) I was referring to your nations age. (/ooc) [/quote] Thank you, Jocko. You just gave me the best laugh I have had in a long while. You talk a lot, but that is apparently all you do. You never were a part of Viet-FAN. You never endured what your current comrades did. Instead, you were a member of NPO. A bad member, but a member nonetheless. Until you got scared. Until, when faced with war in Karma, you surrendered because you didn't want to get rolled and then you justified it by claiming that your surrender was not motivated by fear, but because the "higher ups" were in peace mode. Of course, you didn't accept that banks are banks for a reason. You also didn't have either the intelligence to be able to recognize the necessity, or the motivation to look around and see that there were plenty of "higher ups" that weren't in hippy. Of course, your claimed reason for deserting was just a cover. The real reason was that you were sweating bullets. You were shivering so hard you couldn't hold a rifle. You were about to piss in your pants. So you ran. And now you are still so ashamed of your cowardice that you have to be the loudest voice in the mob. You have to prove to others that you are a big man, so that you can prove it to yourself. And yet, there you cower in FAN, sitting in hippy with all of your glorious 4400 NS. Is it because you are a vital part of your alliance's second wave? Or is it because, once again, you are too scared to do anything else? To the rest of FAN, I will say the same to you that I said to Jack Tarr in your embassy. I respect your thirst for revenge. I will not wish you luck, but I do wish you enjoyment. To the rest of the braying dogs of DoomHouse - spin and back pedal and threaten all you like. If you are so butthurt that we are won't kiss your posteriors, that is not our problem. You harassed us during terms. You harassed us after terms. You attacked our friends for no good reason just to lure us into an unwise fight. You failed to get us to jump to your tune, so you preempted and lost any credibility you might still have had. The mask is off and the rest of the world sees you for what you are. Whether or not that makes any difference in this war, you have already killed yourselves, though you are still walking. Quote this for future reference. NPO will not surrender. NPO will not pay any reps. NPO will not disband. And, finally, [size="7"]NPO will not kiss your ass[/size]