Starcraftmazter

That is an absurd notion. Furthermore, I implore you to try and prove your claim. My main discontent with NSO is it's behaviour. Furthermore, stating that you are the reason for why so many Hegemony alliances got white peace is beyond disgusting, disgraceful and decadent.

That is arbitrarily dependent on someone's opinion and is quite subjective. If you don't take my arguments seriously, then perhaps you could forgo the trouble of responding to them, and hence save me similar troubles.

I dodge nothing, I have already outlined it here, so maybe if more people familiarised themselves with the conversation before creating comments, it would be nice.

If you don't want people's opinions, then don't create announcements which encourage people to give opinions on the content of said announcements

That fails to explain the deception created by your alliance at trying to look goodie-goodie, when you are not.

I find that highly interesting. A couple of quotes taken from the OP; These would paint an image of NSO to be an alliance of high and good morals - intentionally or not (although I don't believe at all that this was done unintentionally), and thus one would think that you would care about something your alliance cares about so much that they would dedicate an entire thread towards trying to convince the CN community that they are not so immortal after your recruiting from other alliances business. Now if you truly don't, feel free to run along - but regardless of whether you do or not, I feel the necessity to take apart what Ivan says and point out that you lot are full of it.

I like to hit where it hurts. I derive enjoyment by cracking down on insolence best I can.

Just the ones which stand to benefit your alliance, regardless of how unethical or immoral they are?

Sounds good - means I can derive some entertainment from being here for a long time. You are now missing the key part of what you previously said, which was you saying that spying has always been a valid reason for war. As you are content with continuing this most illogical tradition, labelling you an upholder of the status quo seemed like a perfectly appropriate thing to do.

The existence of your alliance insults me. Believe me - I did not. As for your reference to "has always been", well it's nice to know that you are not at all interested in changing anything in CN - despite your claims of the opposite.

You're more than welcome to come to Dark Fist. Of course I'm 10 times more abusive than Tulak, and Daikos is never sober - but hey

I'm not bitter, that is quite seriously and literally the impression I get. I am one of countless leader-types that elected to give white peace in the Karma war, and you had nothing to do with it. Other leader-types I know and talk to who did the same did so equally because many many many people have believed for a very long time that this is the appropriate way to do things, and none of this has anything to do with you or your war. The fact that you would believe yourselves to be some sort of an oracle for the rest of us is nothing short of insulting. As for the reasons for your war, I'm not going to get into that, but spying is the most flawed and invalid CB ever. You are no better than NPO to use it.

I believe this thread is very unnecessary, and thus I would like to state said belief. Now I fully acknowledge that my statement may too be claimed to be unnecessary, however I find myself holding strong views over the necessity of this thread, and thus I thought it was necessary for me to express those views about the necessity of this unnecessary thread. Furthermore, I genuinely believe that those views are in fact more necessary than this unnecessary thread. I would also like to pledge support to MFO, and say that if it were my alliance, then we'd refuse to pay the reps in order to teach the Cult of Justitia a lesson about how to properly conduct their Foreign Affairs. Schattenmann, I find this highly disappointing )):

Oh yeh? Well screw you too. This move seems to me like an opportunist grab at NPO and TPF nations still at war. On an OOC note, you really really remind me of Tom Zarek from BSG. PS. If you actually use your immoral and unjust war as a means to claim that you had anything to do with the white peace surrenders that were offered to the large majority of Hegemony alliances in the recent war and/or you are trying to paint yourself as some kind of a pioneer in regards to white peace, then I must say - you are even more smug and delusional that I give you credit for.

Starcraftmazter approves highly of this treaty.

After so many hardships, it's wonderful to see MK come out on top. Many great things will surely come in the future. Congratulations

The problem there is that you have no right to say that

In my opinion, nobody significant or important will side with TDO on such issues as nuclear proliferation. The only possible exception are alliances whom this would benefit. But given it would only benefit them if everyone did it, it is a lost cause.

At first I thought, "who would post something as ridiculous as this". Then I saw OP's name.

And what, me not having anything to do with Echelon means I can't criticise it? Supporting your allies by bullying others...yeh. I don't think I really need to say that's bad.

Looking good AirMe, the best of luck to you and Ronin

Like what - did he nuke rogue Echelon? Did he plant a nation in your alliance for spying purposes? Did he scam your alliance for millions of dollars? I don't understand. It's not always about "what is there to gain", it should also be about "what is the right thing to do". Unfortunately for Echelon that one time was not that long ago, and hence is the best reflection of Echelon's reparation policies.

You're making excuses for forcing an alliance to expel a member for OOC reasons? Really? Well it's nice to know that you were mindless puppets without the ability to think for yourself and make your own decisions. So because you didn't impose high reps every time, that cancels out the fact that you did so at other times? I am inclined to disagree.

Way Hey, I wish the best of luck to this particular new alliance

The problem with your argument, is that you assume there is a "one size fits all" solution, which isn't really true. We didn't get it right most of the time - we got it right all of the time, and different terms apply to different alliances, based on many different things. To me the hypocrisy stems from having one set of ideas and allying with people who have a contrasting set of ideals. If you really don't like those contrasting ideals - why ally with such people yet rant about other people with similar ideals over here? This may sound a bit too abstract, but it is my impression. The other thing I'd like to make clear, is that the ideals are a perception of the OP, and I do not necessarily agree with Grub's image of those in Karma against whom he is speaking out.