Gamemaster1

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='09 May 2010 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1273462893' post='2293160'] Irrelevant. Would you release the murderer just because the aggrieved party was dead and didn't care anymore? [/quote] They aren't dead. They don't care. And you don't have a right if they don't care. This isn't your battle, it was CnG's battle. Who are you, the Polar police force?

[quote name='Shodemofi' date='09 May 2010 - 11:39 PM' timestamp='1273462745' post='2293154'] But they aren't being permitted to walk away. The Easter Sunday Accords happened about a month ago in which they were punished as was seen fit by those they had wronged. [/quote] But an unconnected third party has an inalienable right to interfere in the affairs of another alliance! Especially when it is only a front for one massively bloated ego. The Easter Sunday accords ended it. There was no reason for Grems to keep fighting. No moral crusade, no 'paperless is the new black', nothing at all. Only an ego.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='09 May 2010 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1273462461' post='2293148'] I contend that we defended against their clearly unwarranted aggressive attack. If they are permitted to walk away without an allocution then the entire cyberverse is aggrieved. [/quote] The cyberverse [i]doesn't care[/i]. It hasn't cared for weeks.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='31 March 2010 - 08:58 PM' timestamp='1270083515' post='2242706'][quote name='Lord Brendan' date='31 March 2010 - 08:57 PM' timestamp='1270083445' post='2242703'] What is your justification for demanding unconditional surrender? [/quote] Discussions should proceed between a victor and a defeated party. [/quote] To [quote name='Matthew PK' date='09 May 2010 - 09:21 PM' timestamp='1273454462' post='2292998'] Their offer of white peace is unacceptable. They are culpable; and I will stand up as long as neccesary. It's not an issue of pride, it's an issue of doing the right thing without compromise. Gremlins war is based solely on IRON's wrongdoing; and tolerating their action without allocution would be an injustice against the entire cyberverse. This is non-negotiatble. [/quote] Interesting how your opinions have slowly changed over the course of this thread. Along with your definitions. Just admit it. This is Ram's fault. You can change your opinions and definitions because they aren't important. Admit it. Admit it. It's not that hard, really. We can see it.

Oh give it a rest, PK. That's never been the point of this unconditional surrender.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='09 May 2010 - 01:02 PM' timestamp='1273424546' post='2292550'] i have to agree with this statement. i have heard several people state they would do something about this but yada yada yada, excuse after excuse and so on and so forth. most want to run their mouth but not actually step up to do something other than continue to run their mouth. [/quote] For your actions, we commend you. The strength of character by which you act. [i]Acta non verba.[/i]

[quote name='scytale' date='07 May 2010 - 05:27 PM' timestamp='1273267647' post='2290629'] [center][color=#4080FF] [b][size="7"] Around the CN World[/size][/b] [/color][/center] [color=#8000FF] [size="5"][b][center]The Grämlins Restaurant at The end of Cyberverse[/center][/b][/size][/color] [i]By: Cor Malek[/i] We realize that while many of you would like to get some insight in recent Grämlins v Rest of CN debate, [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showforum=71]it is a bit lenghty[/url] - 118 pages (and counting). Thankfully, there's a relevant metaphor for everything. And while this example is yet to happen - no sooner than at [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_in_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Milliways]The End of Cyberverse[/url], it captures the clu of this discussion. In a crowded restaurant, we see a man with kippah, arguing about something with waiter. The man is clearly frustrated, while maître d' is puffing a pipe, and seems quite undisturbed. "Our customers paid up-front" was the restaurant's motto. - Dude, I can't eat pork. - No, it's OK - it's vegetarian. - Vegetarian Pork Chops? - No, no. That would be absurd! We call it Metabolized Pasture Chops. It's 100% vegetarian. - But it's part of a swine. It's flesh of a hog. It is [b]pork[/b]. - But it started out as a Pasture, you see. It's not our fault that a swine got in the way. It is still in all respects a pasture, just a bit... reconfigured, that's all. - Just drop it, will you? Look, I'm hungry, and I'm not searching for another restaurant. Do you have anything kosher or not? - Well of course we do! Would you like our Special Surprise Dish of the day? Our chef really outdid himself this time. - Hm, OK what's in'nit? - Well I can't tell you, can I? Wouldn't be much of a surprise. - But what if it's not kosher? Or if I'm allergic? - Oh I'd never give you something that's not kosher or all... - But you just DID! You tried to feed me pork! - Sir I'd appreciate if you didn't shout? And no, I didn't - I served you our Afterpork Special. - Dude, I can't eat pork. - No, it's OK - it's vegetarian. - Vegetarian Pork Cho... (...) [/quote] Oh, I see what you did thar....

[quote name='Nizzle' date='08 May 2010 - 01:12 PM' timestamp='1273338726' post='2291462'] Yeah, maybe instead of assuming people are idiots you should consider that it wasn't directed at you but instead the individuals you were helping defend here. EDIT: Actually, reading the entire sentence should have made it clear I wasn't talking to you, as well. [/quote] Then you shouldn't have quoted and responded to me? I'm tired of this attitude that everyone has. Someone else is expected to do something about it first. No one wants to take the first step. You are guilty of that as much as anyone else. Don't try and posture it any other way.

[quote name='Nizzle' date='08 May 2010 - 12:59 PM' timestamp='1273337922' post='2291447'] Helping before I am prepared, and at the low range of available gRAMlins targets, is no help at all. Using my lack of preparedness to assert other alliances, with nations far outnumbering gRAMlins, are not prepared is absurd and another rather poor attempt to avoid responsibility. It's ok though. [/quote] Poor attempt to avoid responsibility? Dude, lol. Check my nation and warscreen. I'm in IRON right now. Nice try though.

[quote name='Nizzle' date='08 May 2010 - 12:40 PM' timestamp='1273336803' post='2291415'] And a completely valid attack from Delta1212. You've always been known as level headed. I haven't attacked any gRAMlins because I am not prepared for war, similar to IRON/DAWN's allies. But, yeah, you definitely got me. Damn. [/quote] It is a valid attack on you. If you want people to help, the first thing to do is help yourself. Everyone here is rebuilding from a war, not just you. To take a page from Athens' book... Do something about it. I already did.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='08 May 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1273336363' post='2291400'] You haven't really made any claims about Gremlins being incorrect. You've primarily made claims about how we're losing members, losing the war, and should take white peace. Those two concepts: winning and being right, are not married. If you want to say that we are morally wrong then you've got a lot of discussion to get out here. [/quote] Have you read this thread [b]at all?[/b] [quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='31 March 2010 - 03:50 PM' timestamp='1270064997' post='2242286'] [color="#0000FF"]I'm pretty sure Gre declared war on IRON to defend CnG, whom they have no treaties to. So let me get this straight, Gre is upset that IRON is always lining up against them even though it is Gre that is always declaring war? I just want to get my facts straight.[/color] [/quote] [quote name='Bob Janova' date='31 March 2010 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1270065417' post='2242299'] This doesn't get any classier. Unless people's terms have 'no re-entry' in them (which, let's be honest, all of them do, so the rest of this is moot), Grämlins have no treaties, so hitting them for global justice would be a pretty fair response. Certainly, I think that C&G and everyone else should be thinking about signing a separate peace and letting Grämlins stay out alone until they come to their senses. It is a good thing not to leave a friend and ally on the field to die, but on the other hand, if they're abusing your power to be unreasonable, it's the right thing to do. I think people on that side are going to have a lot more understanding for TOP's decisions on the Echelon front in Karma after this, but [b]in this case there should be no doubt that the Grämlins terms are unreasonable[/b] and should not be supported by holding peace with the rest of the coalition for them. You bring shame on the Grämlins name. [/quote] [quote name='AirMe' date='31 March 2010 - 04:02 PM' timestamp='1270065743' post='2242307'] What right does Ramirus and the Gremlins have to keep everyone in war when the main party involved on their side has already secured terms to end the war? Honestly, I will publicly say, to hell with Ram and the Gremlins, lets leave them on the field of battle. This was C&G's fight and we were here to support them, not Ram's ego. In this situation, Ram and Gremlins should defer to C&G's wishes instead of gumming the whole process up. [/quote] [quote name='AirMe' date='31 March 2010 - 04:08 PM' timestamp='1270066074' post='2242312'] I fought the Karma war to prevent crap like this, not condone it. [/quote] There's some on every page. Breaking codex, trying to make us unconditionally surrender...people here agree you are wrong. Reading comprehension.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='08 May 2010 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1273335901' post='2291385'] And for those of you saying that Gremlins is in no position to demand anything; are you suggesting might makes right? [/quote] No, we are saying you aren't right. It's an added bonus that you aren't in any position to try and enforce your position.

[quote name='Alekhine' date='08 May 2010 - 12:18 AM' timestamp='1273292271' post='2291048'] Bobdole, Tobbogon, MaDSpartus, and I all legitimately resigned and left today. [/quote] I know from experience that is a hard thing to do. Good luck wherever you go. You tried.

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' date='07 May 2010 - 12:03 PM' timestamp='1273248174' post='2290305'] I'm sure that boosted vote totals for the incumbents considerably. It's also remarkably poor form to attempt to interfere with a sovereign alliances government selection. Very poor show. [/quote] Likely. How exactly did the vote come out? I hear Archons get enough votes to swing the election whichever way they want regardless of how the members vote. Since the Archons are Pro-Ram, the election went....nowhere. 15 votes goes a long way to keeping someone in power.

Can other alliances join this little game of yours?

Penkala.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='06 May 2010 - 12:24 AM' timestamp='1273119832' post='2288672'] No, I don't have / can't give facts about what the terms will be after IRON surrenders. I do have facts about the accusation that we offered then went back on any terms. [/quote] I bet you can't even see if they did vote on it and are going completely by what your gov is feeding you.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='05 May 2010 - 11:20 PM' timestamp='1273116015' post='2288608'] No, I mean the facts. [/quote] What facts? You keep trying to talk about all this facts you know, then you get called on it and claim it as only personal opinion. Then 2 posts later you attempt to use what you say as facts again.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='05 May 2010 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1273116073' post='2288610'] Oh, I see. So in IRON the post of one person constitutes an official stance? And that stance is still valid if I want to abide by it a month later? Sorry for being unfamiliar with your governmental structure. GRE's doesn't work that way. [/quote] More then one person has said it. Peron said it too. DVD did as well. Every IRON offical that has posted on here has said the same thing: White peace. They've also said that the term very well might not last. I'm sure our gov will tell you exactly at what point white peace will no longer be an option. MCRABT clearly said it could change. Did your gov keep any constant communication up to let IRON know that the terms had changed? Nope. Pull up a time where he said it was liable for change if you feel like proving me wrong. Oh right, your government can't make up it's mind and whatever it says should only be taken as personal opinion. If you missed his full remark, you might want to read it again. [quote name='MCRABT' date='05 May 2010 - 09:36 PM' timestamp='1273109750' post='2288445'] You are correct, white peace is still on the table however, how long it will stay there for is another matter. [/quote] I'm sure you can check with him if you want an updated position of our gov on those terms. We actually stated it's liable for change, and we've done it here since Ram isn't one to talk. Did you guys?

You have my vast quantities of negative improvement slots!

Sounds like a fair enough way to go. You both actually start out exactly the same. Though I don't know how far into the round it is, that might give someone an advantage. (Different from SE? No...) Fact is, loser is just going to say "well, it was only TE", no matter who loses.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='05 May 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1273110528' post='2288471'] I'm sorry that your information isn't correct. We can discuss the facts if you're interested. [/quote] You mean your [i]personal opinion[/i] on the facts.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='05 May 2010 - 09:41 PM' timestamp='1273110053' post='2288453'] Are you implying that I can't take the unofficial remarks of IRON and DAWN members in this thread as official terms and then try to accept them a month later as if they were valid? [/quote] That's MCRABT, IRON's Minister of Defense. Wait, wait, wait, hold on. [quote]IRON Councilor, Minister of Defense[/quote] (From MCRABT's sig) Reading comprehension?

You're getting mad because Penkala called you out about not 'walking the walk'? He couldn't walk it when theAUT hit him. Not exactly in a position to criticize others.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='05 May 2010 - 08:59 PM' timestamp='1273107557' post='2288347'] Except for there is no logical progression one could propose which would end with IRON/DAWN complying with any harsh terms; even if GRE demanded them. Give it a try. [/quote] You say that like it's just some easy and alright thing to do. If we surrender, we surrender. You don't go back on your word. Maybe some alliances don't have that kind of honor. Fine. But we do. And we will not surrender if we do not believe we will comply. You even think that we won't comply, and try time and time again to give us an "excuse" to break our surrender. It isn't going to happen. I won't surrender if I won't honor the terms. IRON will not surrender if we will not honor the terms. I guess you won't understand that. Unconditional surrender. Will. Not. Happen.