Moridin

[quote name='Boomhower' timestamp='1282019490' post='2418772'] Yeah don't you wish you wouldn't have left us again... [/quote] Unfortunately, Siberia is completely lacking in rains to bless. I support you guys all the way in this though.

Awesome. This brings a smile to my face.

[quote name='Uralica' timestamp='1281992062' post='2418222'] I think you will actually get [i]two[/i]. Because I think the formula is X(hundred thousand NS) + 1. Bringer can correct me if he feels like doing so. [/quote] Oh, awesome. We're sure to have Kilimanjaro now.

Africa has 103,547 NS, qualifying us for [s]one[/s] two territories. As such, we shall claim this: [img]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/Numenorean5/africaclaim.png[/img] Color #00A2E8 Our cartographers tell us this is roughly the area upon which Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus, above the Serengeti. edit: Give us the one directly above that territory as well, if you would please.

I'd be interested to see what would happen if this sort of thing became more common. As someone who doesn't tech raid I don't really care one way or the other who is allowed to tech raid a certain AA, but judging by some of the posts here not all tech raiders seem to like this idea. [quote name='Schad' timestamp='1281986023' post='2418131'] Didn't the seniority get retroactively set to nation age at some point? And the poor guy...he was probably only a few more months from getting his MP. [/quote] OOC: Seniority was introduced in about mid-2007 if I remember right, so seniority was set to nation age then.

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1281941121' post='2417669']The fact is there was no premeditation within Polar during in the last war, only reaction laced with confusion and poor communication.[/quote] Depends which event you're looking at. Arguably true for the initial exit, but the declaration on TOP was certainly planned.

The OP lists all wars as if all wars were somehow equally interesting or equally game-changing; [i]global[/i] wars come at the rate of one or two a year, and over the course of the past three years, there's been consistently a eight to eleven month gap between 'real' wars. If we look at the the dates when global wars are started, we see there was: Great War I (July 2006) [i]Six months pass[/i] Great War II (January 2007) [i]Two months pass[/i] Great War III (March 2007) [i]Six months pass[/i] The Unjust War (September 2007) [i]Eleven months pass[/i] The War of the Coalition (August 2008) [i]Eight months pass[/i] Karma War (April 2009) [i]Nine months pass[/i] The Bipolar War (January 2010) The period between the Unjust War and the War of the Coalition is arguably the most stagnant period in CN history; the illusion of a dynamic world was created by the constant curbstomps that define the era. It has been nearly seven months since the started of the Bipolar War, and only four and a half since its end. The notion that we are somehow in a [i]more[/i] stagnant period of history than ever before is not true, at least yet; it is exactly the kind of stagnancy we all should have come to expect for an antebellum period, and until we approach a full year since the last major war then it's really nothing special about it.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281935863' post='2417563'] It's all about political people, and your position. Nearly every individual in Vox was extremely active in politics, insofar as making a scene on the forums goes. Most alliances are composed of 95% 'dead weight' in terms of politics, all the members who just sit there, collecting taxes and paying bills. Nearly every name in Vox was well known, and those who weren't were nonetheless highly active. NPO didn't control this game by being a fat alliance, they did by surrounding themselves with allies, something which Vox was more than capable of doing. It is to your credit that you did not.[/quote] Actual military strength plays a crucial role in establishing a hegemony. NPO could not have controlled the world if it were comprised merely of their core of Imperial Officers and other higher-ups that actually made all their decisions. In order to bind alliances to your will, you need to be able to guarantee them security in exchange - something the NPO was able to do through their enormous military might (or perceived military might, at least), and something Vox Populi would have been utterly unable to do with thirty-odd nations almost all below ten thousand strength.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281934286' post='2417515']Was I vocal against you? Certainly. Only hindsight could reveal that you weren't out to replace the NPO with yourselves[/quote] Are you kidding? Really? A few months along, we were down to maybe thirty or forty members, it would have been quite literally impossible to replace NPO. Even at the height of our membership count, we still didn't even come close to wielding the sort of power necessary to actually become a powerbroker in a post-NPO world. [quote]As for the other points, I mostly agree, but my point is that we are falling backwards. The standards are falling, they are not standing still and they are certainly not going up. They may be better [i]now[/i] than under Pacifica at it's height (I could never know for sure having never been subjected to anything negative from the NPO), but what about a year from now? Two years from now? Vox changed the world, but it is changing again, back to it's natural tendencies. [/quote] The standards haven't changed much since Karma. We're not on a slippery slope downward, we're in stasis and nothing much is going to change anytime soon unless someone in power decides that there's nothing enjoyable about being friends with everybody else in power.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281931159' post='2417465'] I don't know that it's quite the exaggeration. For a time, free speech largely was allowed, but there is strong evidence to suggest that this last pillar of light is vanishing; RoK withdrew a peace agreement largely because they didn't like what NSO was saying about them. The change Vox brought is rapidly evaporating. I personally have been threatened because of how vocal I am; Granted, I was threatened by officials from \m/, but if I did anything to stand against it, the whole of "Super Grievances" would be on me in no time at all. Those in power are only as good as the lowest and worst people they are willing to back up. The RoK/NSO scenario also smacks of ignoring diplomacy, such ignorance having been a rallying cry in Karma. That can hardly be classified as the world of "honest and frank" discussion Doitzel dreamed of.[/quote] First of all, I feel it is my duty to point out the incredible irony of you complaining about your perception that you are no longer able to reap the benefits of a change catalyzed by Vox Populi, an alliance you missed no opportunity to oppose, ridicule, and complain about. Second, while there are certainly some alliances in power and associated with those in power that I dislike intensely and would like nothing more than to see ground into dust, it's a measure of how far we've come that there actually was a peace offer on the table to begin with after such a short time. I could name a number of alliances that would have given quite a lot to have that opportunity. I haven't bothered keeping up with the RoK-NSO war so I am rather ignorant of the details and will have to take your word for it that it was withdrawn due to NSO's antics; such a move is certainly poor form, and it illustrates that we're by no means living in an ideal world. I suggest in the future you don't try to pretend you were ever sympathetic to our goals; hearing you lament that we aren't living in "the world of honest and frank discussion Doitzel dreamed of" is really quite amusing. [quote]And for weighing security over humanity, massive reparations have been taken from NPO and more recently TOP and IRON, with a stated intent to 'keep them down to protect our security.' TPF and now NSO have been rolled over next to nothing. [/quote] I've never disputed that many of those in power are far too paranoid about their own security; they are satisfied with the status quo and massive reparations are certainly designed to preserve that, ultimately stagnating the political dynamic. Inexplicably, many of the alliances responsible for these massive reparations, such as MK and other C&G alliances, are the ones most vocally complaining about the stagnation.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281925757' post='2417343']I don't think a single one of those statements can be applied to the current state of the world. I hope that those who participated in the Vox movement remember the principles they fought for more than the names of who they fought against.[/quote] Quite an exaggeration. Discussion today is far more open than it was then, and dissenting opinions are more often addressed and debated than shouted down and silenced. There is a lot of room for improvement; the alliances currently in power are just as paranoid about political opposition as the NPO was in 2008, though in fairness they are less likely to act on it without provocation. As for the second part of what you said, that should be self evident, at least in regards to some of us. If we were all still caught up in opposing the NPO, I imagine Schattenmann would not be in Red Dawn, as one example. Though, it should be noted, there are not a great number of us left anyway; out of the original eleven founders, four - Starfox, Doitzel, West of Eden, and King_Srqt - have departed this world entirely, and a few others that I recall from early on - Kassad and Sponge - have disappeared as well. Not all of the rest are terribly involved in world politics anymore either; I, for one, haven't been for half a year.

[quote name='Chickenzilla' timestamp='1281925511' post='2417334'] Even the #ODN logs? [/quote] Alas, 'twas the Great Hard Drive Wipe of 2009, in which all the most precious documents in Arafel were lost. Evidently it didn't occur to my government to back anything up first.

Always fun to take a walk down memory lane. That first week was the most fun I've ever had in CN. I've tragically lost all my IRC logs from that era, otherwise I'd be digging through them for some of the better parts.

[quote name='Cable77' timestamp='1281904981' post='2416940']This month we saw a our first ever confirmation vote for a triumvir! It all started when only two people nominated for triumvir, Dynasty and IYIyth. IYIyth, not meeting the charter requirements for the position, applied to the MHA court for an exemption to run against incumbent Dynasty. However, the court denied IYIyth's exemption request, citing that he didn't even meet the requirements to receive an exemption of the regular requirements for triumvir. Thus, Dynasty was left to face an alliance-wide confirmation vote, and with 91% of the people in favor of Dynasty's confirmation, he was elected for another three months as triumvir. Congrats to Dynasty on winning a second term! I'd like to wish him the best with continuing to lead our great alliance.[/quote] Is this for real? Couldn't he have applied for an exemption from the requirements for applying for an exemption from the requirements for running? Either way, I applaud you on your enormous bureaucracy.

The night of January 28/29 of this year is, by leaps and bounds, the memory I hate most from my four years in this game.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1281672393' post='2413863'] The first week of Vox Populi. 11 members to over 2 million NS in less than 2 days, plus a Red and Green senator and enough bully tears to sate anyone's thirst for a year. [/quote] This is easily my favorite as well. We may have accomplished almost nothing of any material value in that week but damn was it fun.

I hesitate to be an armchair critic because I have no talent for propaganda myself, but the standard seems pretty low this time around. To start, please, for the love of god don't put paragraphs of text in your propaganda. Propaganda should make a quick and obvious - though clever - point, not be a five hundred word argument about the CB complete with backing evidence, and simply laid down in .jpg format. [quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1281390846' post='2408420'] Thread starts with an excellent peace of work, GJ IC o\ Hope to see more [img]http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9100/gatowae.jpg[/img] More later. [/quote] This one doesn't even make sense. Why is there a "worst alliance ever" for a specific year?

[quote name='brentbee' timestamp='1281409412' post='2408941'] LOL, thanks for giving me my second best laugh of the day. I owe you for that one. By all means keep them coming!! [/quote] Bandwagoning is entering a war you have no business being involved in. I presume - someone from Ragnarok can correct me if I am wrong - that Ragnarok requested the help of GOD in attacking NSO. It's a lopsided war, certainly, but I don't understand where you get the idea that there is bandwagoning involved.

[quote name='brentbee' timestamp='1281408998' post='2408926'] Did not realize that RnR, RoK, GoD, and VE thought us to be that large of a threat. Golly, you all really know how to grow a guy's ego. Oh wait, did I miss anyone? [/quote] It's not that they view you as a threat, it's that they want to be sure to cover all the targets. That's a far cry from bandwagoning.

[quote name='brentbee' timestamp='1281407685' post='2408906'] Late to the party as always, but this thread really made me LOL!!! You guys should really think of changing your name to "Global Order of Bandwaggoning". It fits [/quote] You know, I'm really indifferent towards this whole war, but every post like this makes me move just a little closer towards RoK's side.

[quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1281372904' post='2407776'] Bearing in mind RoK has 190ish nations, it only makes sense for them to call an ally or three to cover their lite ranges. Why on earth would you waste an advantage such as that? Also, Valhalla have no room to speak. Example #1 [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Golden_Sabres_War"]http://cybernations....lden_Sabres_War[/url] Example #2 [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Continuum-NoV_War"]http://cybernations....ntinuum-NoV_War[/url] Example #3 [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/GATO-1V_War"]http://cybernations....iki/GATO-1V_War[/url] I can keep going, if you would like. [/quote] Let's not forget the second FAN war! I remember that one particularly well because of the enormous number of staggers Valhalla screwed up. Either way, the complaints about the amount of backup Ragnarok brought in are silly. I can't recall a single time an alliance with such a superior position decided just to have a 'gentleman's duel'. Especially given the unorthodox time for the initial declaration of war, it's unlikely Ragnarok had enough people ready to cover all the NSO targets before they could slip into peace mode.

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1281374246' post='2407807'] It's better than the Second Unjust War. That travesty of a name is why you don't follow the decisions of OWF polls for anything. [/quote] I still don't understand why the name 'The Bipolar War' was not immediately and universally adopted for the last one.

I almost just went ahead and declared on you there Tyga. [i]Almost[/i].

If an ally specifically requests that you not enter a war on their behalf, you shouldn't enter the war. Honoring what your ally wants at the present is far more important than what you wrote down weeks or months (or years) ago. So for the record, I voted Yes, No, No.

[quote name='bzelger' timestamp='1281150189' post='2403386'] Hey, that's a good idea. Stick Jyrinx in Africa and Moridin will come crawling back in no time. [/quote] It's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do.