Moridin

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1289642517' post='2511760'] You guys do know that he wasn't the only founder, right? One of the founders of Ragnarok would be more accurate. [/quote] You're right, I'm sure Ragnarok is entirely ignorant of who started Ragnarok.

Good to see this.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289290116' post='2507733'] You're really terrible at this, please send another drone. [/quote] [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1289290712' post='2507747'] Takes one to know one. [/quote] This has to be the single worst combination of post and response ever. Please stop.

[quote name='delendum' timestamp='1289286838' post='2507605'] You know how it goes man, everyone wants to be "bad boy" it's like !@#$, I walked down to the kingdom this mornin' and all I could hear was "be gangsta' y'all" so now we have like 200 !@#$@#$ puff daddy's and !@#$, what's a homie gonno do then, he then posts this here thread. On a more serious note, if I spill my drink on you and you straight off punch me back, I won't do the "right thing" and say I'm sorry, I'll punch you back harder and throws a kick in your ass. [/quote] If we're actually going to employ such a miserable analogy, NSO's response is not a "punch in the face" so much as saying "what the hell don't spill your drink on me". To which an apology might be a reasonable response.

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1289286619' post='2507591'] Respond accordingly means what then? [/quote] Maybe they had planned a big aid package to NSO and would then decide not to send it!

[quote name='delendum' timestamp='1289286271' post='2507572'] It always amuses me how the likes of you think you can somehow play "big momma" with regards to other people's actions. Sorry to disappoint you there darling, but momma OWF scolding us will not have us bow our heads in shame and give you your toy back, it will make us want to throw your toy in the river.[/quote] Archon openly admits that the reps requested were unfair, and employing an amazing level of doublethink, turns around and states MK should still receive them. It's not even that the OWF "scolding" would have gotten NSO a better deal, it's that you received a "scolding" and apparently took it so seriously that you're willing to maintain a demand which MK admits is excessive just to prove you're not vulnerable to OWF criticism. One way or the other, you're letting what was posted on the OWF determine your decision, whether it's by making a decision because the OWF wants you to, or making a decision because the OWF doesn't want you to. Given that, why not simply do the right thing?

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1289285782' post='2507552'] Careful, you're breathing our air there. [/quote] I would prefer to phrase it as "liberating the oxygen from MK tyranny".

Well, at least it's honest now! Threatening war because of opposition on the OWF. Why, it feels just like 2007

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1289257742' post='2506675']Come come, it's rude to not answer an Emperor's questions, especially when he's assuming the kindest of you:[/quote] I highly doubt anyone in MK would have thought they had actually paid a full 15m/250 tech for a trade. I'm pretty sure they're smarter than that.

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1289257291' post='2506653'] You do understand that his is a trade circle cancelation over $3mil right. Moridin, I expect more from you than this. [/quote] I am well aware of that. If you would have read my [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94443&view=findpost&p=2506620"]previous post[/url] you might have found that I believe MK was inflating the importance of the issue beyond what is reasonable.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289256667' post='2506628'] [color="#0000ff"]When MK got in touch with current NSO government members we informed them that Lord Revan was not a member. However, when they refused to accept that statement, then the problems began. Had they just been able to accept it there would have been no problems, but then they'd have gotten no tech either, so they couldn't have done that.[/color] [/quote] [quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289256844' post='2506634'] We told them as much but they didn't like that answer and wanted some sort of payment from us. [/quote] They were initially told by a former leader of yours that the person was a member. The person was masked as an Acolyte. Given the circumstances, it was reasonable for MK to suspicious that NSO had changed its story to get out of paying, even if it did end up being a misunderstanding.

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1289251884' post='2506525'] Yet, through all of this, none of them took the time to [i]negotiate[/i]. We demanded 15m-250t because, get this, we know how negotiations usually work. Yet, the Siths did not. They spent all of the evening trying to lie through their teeth to avoid having to pay a single cent, contradicting each other many times in the process, and then just accepted our demands without even blinking (kinda showing that, for them too, it was a minimal ammount to pay). Here's a lesson: next time, learn to negotiate. Of course, we'll ask for an higher figure. That's just how things work. As a sidenote, to all those who scream that they won't trade with us, I'm quite confident that you're already not trading with us. Moreover, we don't pursue punitive damages from people who cancel on us after trading with us for some time. We'll seek retribution if you take up aid-for-trade and cancel [i]two days later[/i], scamming us like thieves. That's about it.[/quote] I still don't see how the initial demand of 15m/250 tech is reasonable. Taking any more than 3m is unnecessary and I would have thought MK would be better than that. There is no conceivable way that you demanded 15m/250 tech with the expectation that negotiations would eventually bring it to a simple 3m, because we are all aware that MK is not that awful at negotiations. Meeting halfway would have produced a sum of 15m or 250 tech or some combination thereof, which is still more than you deserve for a simple aid thief. I can't imagine why after so many years in the Cyberverse someone would not realize aid thieves and canceled trades are more or less a constant, and why someone would not have learned to, as MK members like to repeat ad nauseum, "deal with it". NSO's inability to figure out the membership status of the person is also ridiculous. Either they are a member or they are not; it seems like a pretty clear dichotomy. Maybe you guys should keep an official list of members and update it religiously, or at least find some way to determine in a minute or two whether or not someone is an actual member. If I were MK I would have been incredibly frustrated with trying to deal with this situation, and probably would have opted to simply attack the aid thief.

Good luck guys.

Your illuminating comments continue to set new standards for thoughtfulness and maturity. At any rate, I wasn't aware that it had sudden become unacceptable for an ally to help another ally. I seem to remember GOONS' allies invoking this very sentiment no more than a few weeks ago.

The same goes for destroy money spy ops if they have less than $200 mil.

One bomber is all you need to deal maximum damage. As near as I can figure it out, when your (escorted) bombing runs succeed, the one bomber will always be enough, and when your bombing runs fail, no amount of bombers is going to help you. Therefore, all that adding extra bombers does is decrease your chances of a successful bombing run. I should add a disclaimer though - while this is the strategy I use and as far as I can tell this is how the mechanics operate, air battles are such a crap shoot that there's a fair possibility I've drawn the wrong conclusions.

While you might think IRC requiring something more than a pulse to access would set it above the forums, it often does not. The ease of access for the forums is outweighed by the more formal atmosphere, as opposed to IRC which in almost every instance is highly informal without much care or thought put into messages. IRC can vary heavily depending on the channel and people therein. Some channels are so saturated with immaturity and spam that they'd rank well below anything else you listed; others might remain comparable to, say, Alliance Announcements.

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1287721016' post='2490409']Iknorite? What an exciting surprise that some of the higher level members would decide to create their own alliance. Im still laughing at how utterly ironic it is.[/quote] I don't follow. What's ironic about it?

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1287704911' post='2490185'] There was something that was lost in translation between what I mean and the meaning I have communicated. I do not mean to say that, Polar is a pure Oligarchy, but rather that the structure at the very top functions more or less like one. The prospect of becomming a "Minister" within Polaris is out of reach of most members, simply because they lack, and will always lack that component of allianceseniority that a few others possess regardless of the quality of work they produce. The component of seniority is also not neccesarily tied to being in Polaris for a set period of time either. Before either of us left Polaris, the Ministry of Science was formulated to reward others who had held senior positions in other allliances. Coursca would not have advanced within Polaris at nearly the pace he did, and be trusted with as much responsibilities as he was, if it was not for the simple fact that he was a former IRON Council member. It would be misleading to simplfy my argument to the point of Alliance Seniority = High Govt. Position, because that is not exactly the case. The reality though is, that when it comes to the selection of government officials, seniority does play a large part these days, and is the determining factor of who gets the job, and who doesn't get the job. [/quote] It's not out of reach unless something has drastically changed since I was last there. It's difficult, certainly, and that's to be expected given the scarcity of government positions relative to the number of members in the alliance. When there are 30 or 40 people who are all active, holding multiple middle management jobs in the alliance, and performing them relatively well, the simple fact is that a lot of people are not going to end up getting promoted. It becomes a competition for who can demonstrate their talent and loyalty to the greatest extent (and indeed popularity, in the case of Deputy Minister elections), and a lot of talented people are going to miss out. Length of time in the alliance is certainly a factor, as it should be, though it's far from the only factor; the trouble comes when you have two equally qualified candidates for an appointment, but one has greater seniority - there's not really any reason to pick the newer one. So, in the constant competition for higher positions, the people with higher seniority do tend to win out. This doesn't mean an exceptionally talented person is not going to be able to make it if they're relatively new, and I can certainly remember a few people standing out and being promoted accordingly.

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1287702469' post='2490147'] [color="#ff0000"]Have you looked at your alliance lately? Do you have any clue what the average alliance seniority for the Minister in all 4 ministries is? 1155.25 days OR 3.165 years And you still beleive Polaris is purely a meritocracy? You have got to be kidding me.[/color] [/quote] Off the top of my head, I can think of at least three past Ministers who reached the position with somewhat less than a year of seniority - not counting, of course, all the Ministers from the early months of the four-Ministry system where nobody had a year of seniority. I don't doubt there are more that do not immediately come to mind. The reason the Ministers often tend to be older members is because talented and active members tend to stick around the alliance a long time, and these are the same qualities that are valuable in government positions. What some people seem to perceive as an oligarchical system is simply a system that vets members aspiring to government positions. There have been an enormous number of talented folks that have been in Polar that never made it to government positions, simply because it's reasonable to want them to prove themselves as an asset before moving up the ranks. "Merit" is not only ability or talent; there is also a component of being someone who [i]deserves[/i] the position, and the more an individual does for the alliance, the more they merit a government appointment. Polaris of course is not purely a meritocracy, most Ministers only reach the position after being a Deputy Minister, which carries all the populism of a democracy with it. Still, declaring it an oligarchy simply because the people who merit a position are the people who have given the most for the alliance is disingenuous at best.

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1287692293' post='2489980'] Who is protecting them? [/quote] UINE.

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1287646947' post='2489578'] Ah, that makes more sense, but even so... I mean, if they were mass-messaging Polar members to join their alliance, then that would be bad, and they should be ZIed. But if it's just a couple of friends who they think might be interested in forming an alliance, then even though it's recruiting, it's not that bad in my eyes. I suppose it is a violation of CN etiquette though. [/quote] I don't know enough of the details to be able to say one way or the other what exactly happened, so you're best off trying to get an explanation from Polar gov, at least if they're inclined to say any more than Dajobo already did in the OP. I expect the involved parties would differ in their portrayal of events, though.

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1287646191' post='2489568']So government members cannot resign from their posts and leave the alliance? It's a case of "stay in the alliance or else"? Besides which not everyone in CF was a government member.[/quote] The taboo is against beginning to form the alliance and recruiting people for it while still being a member; people - non-government members - have been expelled from Polar and ZIed in the past for doing so. To what extent the people involved were doing it covertly and how much organizing they had done depends on who you talk to.

[quote name='Lennox' timestamp='1287642826' post='2489548'] Didn't you get caught spying on polar a while back? Or do I have the names wrong? [/quote] Are you thinking of Ursarkar? If memory serves, Askani left Polar for NPO around the time of the Sponge coup.

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1287635560' post='2489368'] In my heart, I do not believe RandomInterrupt's rule will prove beneficial to NpO. I can only say good luck to them. [/quote] Do not be too eager to deal out judgment! Even the very wise can not see all ends. My heart tells me that Random has some part to play yet, for good or evil. [img]http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7756/gandalfbv.jpg[/img]