delendum

[quote name='Ejayrazz' timestamp='1285740433' post='2467947'] Charter...Established..Been here for months...Keep E-lawyering. We're not going anywhere man, if you can't let Goons be big boys, at least have the courage to DoW. It's embarrassing right? Having 4 alliances declare on 11 nations? So, what you'll do is pretend we're not an alliance? Please. Going to declare war, do it rightfully. [/quote] How can this be about courage, it's not like we're denying we're countering on you. I really don't care one way or the other, if we don't DoW in the end, one can only be indifferent about it. It would be comparable to putting a paper sign next to a hole in the ground, saying that it is indeed a hole.

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1285740353' post='2467944'] Then maybe GOONS shouldn't run around asking for fights with 12 man AA's if they can't handle them. I mean sure the bulk of the Ninja's are in range of about 30 GOON nations and GOONS would outnumber them more than 3 to 1, but that's just not enough advantage it would seem. It would be differnt imo if GOONS hadn't specfically went out of their way to ask for this fight over several days. [/quote] GOONS doesn't really have a choice, the fine print in our treaty states that they are obligated to share any wars with us, else face the fury of SPH. Nobody wants that.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285740117' post='2467929'] I think people are saying you guys should post your own DoW if you're really a separate alliance from GOONS which people should recognize as such. If a war with one of you guys automatically puts someone in a state of war with all of you, then you might as well merge into the same alliance. [/quote] A DoW for what is in essence a grouping of rogues seems hardly necessary.

Gentlemen, hello. 1000 days have passed since I joined CN, and as fate would have it, MK. I'm not here to tell you all about how I've been playing for too long, make jokes about the game being crappy, or give shout outs to various people. I have never been powerful nor popular, and I'm certain most of you have never heard of me to begin with - all of which I am quite content with. From somewhere deep in the bunkers of MK, I have however played my own little role in shaping the face of our fair Bob - and that has predominantly been through the propaganda I have created. As time went by, these images have increasingly become snapshots of the past, reminding me of not only MK's history, but that of CN itself, and ultimately my own. I would like to share this story with you, however insignificant, even if just for the sake of remembrance. 12/3/2007 - delendum joined CN 12/5/2007 - delendum joined MK [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/sig.jpg[/IMG] *** The No CB war hits. [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/propsig.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/propsig2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/propsig3.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/propsig5.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/propsig6.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/propsig7.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/propsig8.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/propsig9.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/propsig10.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/propsig11.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/propsig12.jpg[/IMG] I had decided to change my sig for the occasion: [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/csig.jpg[/IMG] *** Don't ask me why we did this: [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/jb3.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/jb2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/jb1.jpg[/IMG] *** CnG needed some promoting: [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/cng4.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/cng3.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/cng2.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/cng1.jpg[/IMG] *** Hi Umbrella: [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/umbrella1.png[/IMG] *** hi Pacifica [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/radio.png[/IMG] *** Pre-Karma war: [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prop1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prop2.jpg[/IMG] *** Karma war: [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/shpr1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/shpr3.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/shpr4.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/shpr5.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/shpr6.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/shpr7.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/shpr8.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/shpr9.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/shpr10.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/shpr11.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/shpr12.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prtp3.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prtp2.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prtp1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prtp5.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prtp4.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prtp7.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prtp6.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prtp9.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prtp8.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/prtp10.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/aut-prop.jpg[/IMG] My sig during the war: [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/del-sig.jpg[/IMG] *** My current sig was born shortly afterwards: [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/dgsig.png[/IMG] *** Hi Polaris [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkpolar1.png[/IMG] *** TOP-CnG war (I don't even know what they call this one) [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkp3.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkp2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkp1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkpat1.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkpa3.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkpa1.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkpa4.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkpat2.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkpat3.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkpat4.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkpat5.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/mkpat6.png[/IMG] *** Present day (NSO and \m/ being silly): [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/justdow.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/rattling.png[/IMG] *** "delendum was here"

Wherever we may have been, we've been there together. =LOST=

[quote name='Swanfield' timestamp='1282083121' post='2420404'] I am thinking of going rogue on a couple STA nations, whether I decide to do so is up to me and I will decide at update whether I will do so. I still maintain sovereignty within \m/ until such the time that I decide to go rogue comes. Is that clear enough STA? So that you don't pre-emptively attack me! [/quote] 216 of us here at MK are thinking of going rogue on a couple of \m/ nations, whether we decide to do is up to us and we will decide at update if we will do so. We still maintain sovereignty until such a time that we decide to go rogue comes.

[quote name='Swanfield' timestamp='1282053414' post='2419555'] Well for a few minutes, Planet Bob was on the cusp of a global war. That's about it, I think? [/quote] Step aside son, I'll tell it as it really happened! There was this man with a rifle, see, and he was pretty pissed that them tigers rattled \m/'s cage. Then a lot of people came by and they all argued over what the rattling was suppose to mean. After a while, everyone went home.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1282052492' post='2419540'] While I appreciate the symbolism, I would recommend clearing your appointment book. For every one of these lulzy attacks that makes it to these forums, there's 100 others that do not and each time you threaten an alliance for bad behavior, there is always the threat of accidentally creating a much larger war--as almost happened last night. The job of crusader is a mostly thankless task. Think about the helm you seem to want to wear carefully. [/quote] Good sir, you seem a tad confused. STA is merely saving us fair raiding nations the embarrassment of having to ask \m/ for permission on... well, anything. They are enablers of evil! Facilitators of sin! Liberators of depravity! And as the Satan of Bob, we here at MK love them for it. What's that you say about crusader? You sir, are a heretic of heresy.

It had to be done. [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/rattling.png[/IMG]

[quote name='d3filed' timestamp='1282049520' post='2419504'] I'm interested in seeing what you loosely define as 'aggression'. [/quote] It's an attack. An attack, is an attack, is an attack. Here's what we want. And I feel this is beyond fair, because after what RoK did to NSO, I am being extremely "nice" considering the alternative: Reparations for your attacks on myself and at the end of the day \m/ has been the agressor in this. Whether or not you are ZI'd really depends on your attitude in here. Any further attacks from \m/ on my person will be considered an act of war.

[quote name='d3filed' timestamp='1282049070' post='2419495'] Watch yer mouth boi. [/quote] At the end of the day your aggression against me and separately STA has -not- gone unnoticed.

Bob, I'm gonna make this very clear. Rattling STA's cage will not get you anywhere. We defended STA against competent alliances, I'm perfectly happy to defend STA from idiots. I'll use my same rifle gun. You know who I am.

[quote name='LJ Scott' timestamp='1281690133' post='2414146'] Alliance-wise, potentially the noCB War. Declaring on Molon Labe and some other alliance (one of TORN's protectorates), knowing fully that NPO would be knocking at the door immediately. It was another eloquently written DoW by Archon, and the unity within MK at that point was immense. Just everyone going in presuming that we'd be run out the game, and just wanting to do as much damage as possible (I think we forced several large nations to delete, and wreaked havoc on NPO nations without SDI's). We were even deciding what to do post war with the forums since we were convinced that would be the end of us. [img]http://avatars.mk.googlepages.com/MK-Friensbeforeinfra.png[/img] Personally it's hard to choose. I have a lot of good and !@#$%* times within this game. My entire past with NPO has been pretty hilarious for the most part. [/quote] I agree with regards to the noCB war, the atmosphere in MK was simply amazing during those times, and our DoW was something to be truly proud of. This takes "favorite" for me.

I've fought one order, befriended the other, and ridiculed the third. Do I get anything?

[IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/delendumk/justdow.png[/IMG] You gents know what you have to do.

[quote name='TIEIXIAIS' timestamp='1281348666' post='2407262'] The escalation of it by RoK was highly unnecessary. Lets be 'frank' NSO and it's allies have absolutely no chance in defeating your 'karma' bloc. Why would they want a war with you? RoK could have very easily continued talks with NSO and had the issue resolved in a matter of days. It was a poor show and CB on RoK'S part. I understand your unwavering will to defend it though. Nothing wrong with being stubborn, tends to happen when your leaders make a Ad Hoc Decision. [/quote] Good sir, in order to agree with your post I'd have to believe that the NSO is some sort of Forest Gump of Bob, as only that would somewhat justify why they'd need a few days to find a solution to what could have been sorted out in a few minutes, on the spot. However, they have proven that they are indeed capable of deciding on the spot, even if you could call their chosen path as being "retarded". The fact that they also seem to lack any cool number counting abilities would lead me to believe that they aren't autistic at all, they simply $%&@ed up. I won't claim to understand how an alliance that doesn't want war does exactly what it knows will lead to war, but the choice was theirs. I really don't see what was suppose to go on during those few days you mention there, but if it makes you feel better, I'll say that I wished those days would've happened too! We were robbed!

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1281348818' post='2407264'] That would depend on your perspective. There are parties who view some actions taken over the past year - from the heavy reps in the last two global wars, to the curbstomps of TPF and NSO, to various "raids" - as unjust. Others view them as justified. From my experience, as people's interests change, so do the "justifications" they use to judge past events. "Gunning for someone" can be a bit of a complicated concept. It does not always correspond to the populist concept of an evil overlord hatching detailed and long-term plans to destroy an opponent - certainly, the current ruling powers are nowhere near unanimous enough to even hold the ability to do that, much less the will. However, it would be an illusion to claim that the NPO is not vehemently disliked by [i]some parties[/i]. Now, said parties might not have the influence to manufacture a conflict situation, they certainly have the motive and determination to pursue any minor "incident" (and incidents can be numerous in CN) that could lead to conflict - and their being tied into the greater web allows people to just "go along with it". Being more inclined to choose conflict over diplomacy might not fit the exact definition of "gunning", but it has much of the same implications. [/quote] Well if there's one thing we can be certain of, it's that politics inside our little world keep changing, even if they do so over long spans of time. I'm sure things won't remain the way they are forever, and to be fair there wouldn't be much point to that either. People's interests will change, and so will their interpretations of the past, I agree with that. At the end of the day though, what will make the difference between finding yourself completely in the gutter or not, will be how much concrete hatred you've amounted against you, and most importantly, who is willing to abandon you over it. To use a concrete example, the odds were against you during Karma, but it was only when even your close allies outright threw you under the bus that it became apparent you're going to burn as hard as you did. You got there by virtue of actions that were outright "as bad as they say". (I'm not trying to use this as an IN YOUR FACE kind of thing, really just using it for the sake of example). As for your second point, I completely agree with you there, but to be fair, that's how our world works, at any level, with regards to almost any alliance, on any side. There are people that would use any pretense to see MK burn, just as there are some that would if it meant seeing RoK burn, or anybody else. It's really more to do with boredom than anything though.

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1281346538' post='2407235'] You will find the detractors who do speak up tend to merely be the tip of an iceburg, and several people self-limit their dissenting views out of political convenience or self-rationalization. But as temporal interests fade away, so do those limits, causing notable long-term PR shifts. If I may offer a relevant example, see the Woodstock Massacre. One of the 9 parts of the CB for that war was aid being sent to an "enemy nation", and the person responsible for sending not being dealt with for 3 weeks. Now, that war enjoyed fairly broad "official" support at the time*, with the main detractors being those who were on the "outside" of the power-structure, much like the present scenario. However, in hindsight, the war is not very widely supported. So, I would advise you not to get overly comfortable in the belief that an action is "Solid". Solidity is a very relative and changeable concept in this realm. Of course, everyone should feel free to ignore the implications of such shifts - it makes it less likely that someone have the required capital to come after us or the rest of our allies next. [size="1"]*Ironically, part of that support included that of VE, whose announcement at the time was written by a person currently in NSO.[/size] [/quote] Again a valid point, but you are basing it on two assumptions, the first of which would be that there is widespread unspoken dissent amongst our ranks. I'm not going to go on a "there is no such thing lol" type argument here, but in your example, the dissent had its roots in a number of actions widely regarded as... hegemonic, lets call them. Generally you get that type of dissent when people end up strongly disagreeing with certain actions, as they consider them too unjust or morally wrong. For better or worse, this "side" has only really acted similarly in the deluded scenarios detractors like to spout whenever something happens. That is to say, if there is any dissent, it's based only on people believing the voices saying that the incredibly unjust actions CAN HAPPEN, and not on any actual actions. While I don't doubt some will fall for that, it will definitely not be comparable. Some fool screaming that RoK WANTS TO DISBAND THE NSO doesn't equal RoK actually wanting to disband the NSO, dissent wise. You're right that "public support" isn't to be taken at face value all the time, but I'm speaking as a member of the unofficial crowd here, and I'm just basing my stuff on the mood of my fellow nobodies. Granted, I'm not aware of how the mood is everywhere, but I'd imagine it's not much different. Feel free to call me wrong should RoK's allies mass cancel on them in the middle of the next big war. Your second assumption is that our evil little side here is trying to come after you, or anybody else for that matter. You're a smart individual, I'd hope you can see the NSO didn't end up where they are now because somebody was gunning for them. Unless you're fearing the NPO is capable of a similar $%&@-up, you realistically don't have anything to worry about. Unless you chose to believe the same voices that kept saying we'd FAN you during terms.

[quote name='shilo' timestamp='1281345763' post='2407224'] Lame move. First of all you weren't even asked to help, rather the opposite. And because NSO wasn't chatting to you guys parallel to being blackmailed by RoK, they violated the treaty? Well, it's a cowardly move, I guess GATO thought they would be involved in the curbstomp and looked for a way out until they realized it wasn't even necessary but then went ahead anyways. Obviously, the spirit of the treaty was gone before all of this happened - at least I hope so, so the current events only serve as a pretense to get rid of a in many ways inconvenient treaty. Still, I expected better from GATO here, and I have been disappointed... [/quote] You got a bit ahead of yourself there. Whatever the NSO was busy doing, it didn't involve being blackmailed by anybody. You could say the NSO was busy refusing to find a solution, but I wouldn't think that's entirely time consuming. To be fair, I'd call !@#$%^&* on any sort of WE WERE OH SO BUSY excuse they can come up with, lets be realistic here for a second, it takes all of 2 minutes to relay this kind of information. That said, I don't agree with the way GATO reacted here, but that's not really my business.

[quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1281344561' post='2407202'] Well I don't think it would be called 'an act of war'. It is not uncommon to see people doing tech deals with alliances who are at war, which would be a direct form of aid be it in the case of a larger nation receiving tech, or a smaller nation receiving aid. Beyond that it is even more common for someone share trades with an alliance at war, which could provide more aid and relief to an alliance than one slot of aid ever could (particularly at the higher levels). Which does raise the question, why is it okay to share a uranium trade with an alliance at war, something which enables the production and deployment of nuclear weapons, yet it is wrong to aid a nation 3m, or send them 5000 soldiers? Kind of a silly contradiction. This war was either a devious trap, or a reckless and altogether impractical move on the part of Rok. Even if they crush NSO they and their allies will suffer far more damage than they would have just continuing to deal with the rogue on an individual level. And while it might be somewhat humiliating and degrading for hoo to have heft thumb his nose at him, Rok will certainly suffer more negative PR from this very public action as opposed to a few private snickers in the back rooms of NSO. If I were a member of the SF/CnG leadership cadre I would be somewhat upset at Rok for frittering away the finite political capital they have and giving detractors yet another opportunity to sling mudd. [/quote] What you're saying would make sense if only most people (on our side of the fence at least) wouldn't see RoK as being entirely justified. Detractors will sling mud with any opportunity, that doesn't mean they necessarily do it with too much success or style - and that depends a lot on the pretext they're using. RoK's actions in this case are pretty solid, so most mud slinging disco lovers out there are a tad out of their league and only manage to make fools of themselves, as they lack the skill to tackle anything that isn't already clearly labeled as a $%&@-up. In the end, who are they losing PR towards? From my admittedly humble corner of the world, they're quite blingin'.

[quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1281343048' post='2407169'] NSO has always maintained a policy of allowing CN's "villains" to enter the alliance- just because someone doesn't like him from another alliance isn't enough to stop him from getting accepted into the Order. And how would letting one of their own nations get ZIed not be bending over to RoK? Any half assed decent alliance will protect its members and that's precisely what the NSO did here by ensuring its member could fight its wars and win. [/quote] The fact that NSO accepted that person into its ranks doesn't absolve said person of the consequences of his actions. The NSO isn't some miraculous get-out-of-jail free card for douche bags, it's an alliance. If they chose to readily accept rogues, they must be willing to deal with people that still want to collect. I don't see how anybody is required to play by the NSO's terms just because their recruitment process is... hasty. If nothing else, it's the NSO that should show some willingness to find a solution, other than saying "we don't care, he's our member now, we'll protect him". Which, mind you, they're entirely entitled to say. In which case you'll get alliances like RoK replying with "well we don't care either, we'll still attack him".

This is sort'a like when MK proposed the same thing to Vaxhulla, amirite?

*door slams open* woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooo! *delendum throws some booze on the table and grabs a party hat* ...am I late?

I'm still waiting for MK to die in a haze of nuclear fire so I can start trying out other alliances. Great plan that was... Figured it would only take a few months, ended up with 2 and a half years. I STILL FEEL NEW TO THE GAME.

All I want to know is which one of you gentlemen stole my horse.