delendum

[quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289287156' post='2507623'] Oh... So Lebubu saying pay it in the other thread was not sufficient enough? Having to face the wrath of friends because of your mistakes here and your unwillingness to admit them requires the calling of a King who is on leave to handle a situation that you continue to say you had under control... [/quote] Oh boy, so now that we haven't bowed down as expected, you're hoping we'll at least pull a "WE'RE GOING IN ALONE" eh? You should learn already that your behavioral cliches do not interest us.

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1289286999' post='2507613'] This is correct to the best of my knowledge, though I don't think any gag orders were issued so much as Archon brand military support dissolving dust was sprinkled on a few particular folks. [/quote] You should see him employ pixie dust. It's 20 times more sparky. [quote name='heggo' timestamp='1289287073' post='2507617'] No. He's the panic button, and you know it. [/quote] I press him every time I go to the !@#$ter. [quote name='gonftw' timestamp='1289287104' post='2507621'] MK threatening war at the first sign of someone speaking out against them. Totalitarian much? Time to get out the Guy Fawkes mask, I guess. [/quote] Stop posting if you care for your alliance's life.

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1289286673' post='2507592'] If this is how the Lebubu administration behaves then I can safely say, from a purely zero-sum, adversarial perspective, that I much prefer the new regime. Though I will have you know that I have served Pacifica since the reign of Dilber, right through the Pax Pacifica, fighting in almost all the conflicts along the way. You will have to do pretty well in the tales of tyranny and horror stakes to impress me. [/quote] So you think we're unimpressive I take it [quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289286744' post='2507596'] I didn't mention the NPO in anyway. You made the same mistake delendum did by falling back on the standard kneejerk response MK and their allies have made when confronted with criticism. It has worked in the past because the less intelligent of the ex-hegemony crowd can only think of comparing MK (with unintentional irony) to the hegemony, but it won't work on me. I am not a hack like nearly everyone else around here. I don't defend one side right or wrong. I defend what is right, always. My criticism of Archon in this instance is not a comparison to Moo or anyone from the former Hegemony. It is a criticism of MK policies and MK leadership in their own right, which Archon has today proven lacks in integrity and is merely the typical way a thug reacts to criticism of his thuggery. There is no intellectual honesty or nuance to this position, despite Archon's attempts to affect otherwise. This announcement is little more than a cliche. [/quote] That's it guys, lets disband. I can't take being evil anymore.

[quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1289286540' post='2507587'] Archon openly admits that the reps requested were unfair, and employing an amazing level of doublethink, turns around and states MK should still receive them. It's not even that the OWF "scolding" would have gotten NSO a better deal, it's that you received a "scolding" and apparently took it so seriously that you're willing to maintain a demand which MK admits is excessive just to prove you're not vulnerable to OWF criticism. One way or the other, you're letting what was posted on the OWF determine your decision, whether it's by making a decision because the OWF wants you to, or making a decision because the OWF doesn't want you to. Given that, why not simply do the right thing? [/quote] You know how it goes man, everyone wants to be "bad boy" it's like !@#$, I walked down to the kingdom this mornin' and all I could hear was "be gangsta' y'all" so now we have like 200 !@#$@#$ puff daddy's and !@#$, what's a homie gonno do then, he then posts this here thread. On a more serious note, if I spill my drink on you and you straight off punch me back, I won't do the "right thing" and say I'm sorry, I'll punch you back harder and throws a kick in your ass.

[quote name='rabonnobar' timestamp='1289286484' post='2507584'] Probably. However, I'd like to point out that I am the strongest nation in NSO, and this is the first spy attack I've ever been subject to outside of formal war situations (meaning I don't really have personal enemies and am not a rogue target etc.). [/quote] [quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289286501' post='2507585'] Yup that is to be expected just thought maybe someone could esplain why it happened after threats against us were made but oh well. [/quote] I'm offended by you fine gentlemen ignoring my confession. I hereby take back everything I said.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289286362' post='2507577'] [color="#0000FF"]Don't count on MK talking responsibility for it. You might have a feeling, but if you can't prove anything it doesn't matter.[/color] [/quote] I confess, it was me.

[quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289286126' post='2507569'] Not confusing at all he is the person at fault not our alliance. It has been our continued stance. He is a non-member we disavowed him but y'all felt entitled to your "monies and tech" and feel that bullying out of us works best until we got the whole world in on it; then you pushed the "OH SHI-! Archon we need you to save us!" and now we are here. With Archon using his might powers to hold back the tide of opposition against you and force our hands to be tied yet again as they were in dealing with your representatives last night who not only were unaware of the amount paid but called the actual NSO gov't members (myself included) liars over it. Now tell me where in this its us being confusing? EDIT: May I ask what this is about? [img]http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/64/spyattempt.png[/img] [/quote] You sir should become a novelist. Also lol

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289285942' post='2507559'] No, I consider doing what is right handling it better. What Archon should have said right after he said that the reps were too harsh was "and so we rescind our demands and apologize. We're big boys and don't start crying and flailing our fists and beating on the weak like cowards and bullies over perceived insults." But he obviously didn't do that because he has no integrity. [/quote] It always amuses me how the likes of you think you can somehow play "big momma" with regards to other people's actions. Sorry to disappoint you there darling, but momma OWF scolding us will not have us bow our heads in shame and give you your toy back, it will make us want to throw your toy in the river. Point in case. Also, Archon never had integrity, he is a delinquent scum and should be punished (or so I hear lebubu saying from behind the door to the royal bedroom... there's also the sound of whips) [quote name='Heyman' timestamp='1289285981' post='2507561'] Judging from most of the responses, I'd say that Archon is effectively reflecting the will of Mushroom Kingdom's membership: [/quote] You got us there

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' timestamp='1289285750' post='2507550'] Not defending VE in this particular instance, but I think Archon's OP is a healthy distance from Moo posting a "You die now, admin have mercy on your soul " You can joke, but that's what this looks like. Your member claims that NSO violated the standards of diplomacy, but jumping right off the bat with unreasonable demands to another alliance is just as lacking in tact. [/quote] Well you know how it goes, two $%&@-ups make an even bigger one. Welcome to "right now".

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1289285603' post='2507545'] I'm really disappointed with you Archon, you used to be fair and reasonable. It's really a shame that you recognize that MK is in the wrong here but nonetheless will still punish NSO because they made the incident public. The only people to be blamed for the amount of bad PR that MK got from this fiasco is the MK members not NSO ones. Had not RV created a thread about this incident it would still unknown and without all the bad PR that MK got you probably would not be here to made this announcement. It's really sad to see my last piece of hope that MK could turn the same it used to be dies with this announcement. [/quote] Archon changed ever since he started hanging with lebubu. He's a vicious one, that romanian. And he used to be such an innocent lad... did so well in school... [quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1289285674' post='2507548'] Well, at least it's honest now! Threatening war because of opposition on the OWF. Why, it feels just like 2007 [/quote] What can I say, we were never good at bending over

[quote name='Farrin Xies' timestamp='1289285413' post='2507536'] Hopefully Archon can get a more efficient system for people to pay the tax on speaking. I mean, a series of (what will become) long discussions isn't very simple. If we're all required on today's Planet Bob, run by MK & Crew, to pay for the privilege of using these [ooc]forums[/ooc] then we all need an easy way to find out who to send our 3 million and 50 tech to. [/quote] I do hope we improve it a bit as well. I was just about to run some calculations on how much you guys owes us, but then I realized I'll be here all winter. [quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289285479' post='2507538'] Happy about getting to possibly beat down an alliance who was bullied into reps for a non-member. I do enjoy listening to that line of thought. If you had it under control why did you need Archon at all? [/quote] No, happy about not rising up to your mob-mind expectations. Also you people confuse me, one of you gents talks about that guy as a wronged martyr, "the highest price an alliance can pay", while another calls him as "non-member".

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289285222' post='2507528'] MK can't handle negative PR. I think we all owe MK reps for emotional distress, the poor things. I wish I could say that I thought Archon was better than his subordinates, but he's like VE. Somehow he's managed to build up this aura of being a principled and honourable ruler, when in fact he's as petty and dishonest and opportunistic as them all. [/quote] On the contrary, I think we're handling it quite well - unless you consider backing down and pleading mercy to the demands of the mob as handling it better. Also lol now it's not MK, but Archon himself that's just "as bad as them". Next you'll tell us our children will be born as bad as them by default. edit: I called Archolob an "it"

[quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289284822' post='2507513'] Me thinks you can't play the semantics card here when you push the "OH SHI-!" button.... Sadly Heggo is a banker and we were going to use his slots to sled one of our smaller nations to the higher ranges but this then occurred. [/quote] Sir, I may have huffed and puffed until now, but the tragedy of the little nation has brought me to tears [quote name='Lord GVChamp' timestamp='1289284894' post='2507515'] Meaning, they told the world about your ridiculous demands? I can't help it your negotiating team sucks, and I don't appreciate using military force to extract money you have absolutely no right to, and I don't appreciate threats against people who commit the horrible crime of talking. Transparency is the light that burns away this nonsense. Hold on, got something for you: [img]http://cdn.bikechatforums.com/files/worlds-smallest-violin_190.jpg[/img] [/quote] You better stop talking. Take this as you will. lol [quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1289284899' post='2507516'] You think extortion backed up by the threat of destruction id funny? If the shoe is on the other foot we shall see how funny you think it is ODN [/quote] No, I think you're funny. [quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289284899' post='2507517'] I mean look at the last thread how much support did you have? Beyond your own members spouting dribble that amounted to "Do something about it" and "Pay up or Blow up" quite the wordsmiths you have there MK. [/quote] What can I say, people become basic when they're happy. [quote name='Brenann' timestamp='1289284932' post='2507518'] Wow... so there was a mistake on the way this was handled and you admit it. Now someone called you on that and you say that because he spoke up, the price which you admit was wrong for the initial mess is now just right. MK is setting the price of speaking in public now. And everyone saying that NSO is running to pay now that MK is "serious" is ridiculous. NSO agreed to pay the amount even if that amount was stupid. They now receive a deadline from the KING of MK not just the pretty princess and you are all surprised they are paying up in the most expedient manner possible? Someone holds a gun to your temple you are going to empty your pockets but you will also remember the actions and file it for the future. Poor show MK. [/quote] MK - setting the price for speaking in public since 2010 - amirite? We'll send you the bill later.

[quote name='BlkAK47_002' timestamp='1289282844' post='2507398'] Don't get me wrong, I don't think this was premeditated at all. But the opportunity arose where you could either make NSO pay up, or roll them, and you took that opportunity. Your members expressed this clearly in the beginning of the thread. Now your tune has changed because you see public opinion turning against you. If Tamerlane and Bansky kept doing what they were doing roughly 20 pages back, then this situation would be salvageable. As I said before, by claiming that you weren't planning to attack them if they refused (and you quite obviously were)you just butchered any good defensive arguments you had going for you. [/quote] I think all of us would've preferred this "opportunity" never arising. Now, lets get some things straight: As far as I'm aware our tune hasn't changed. We are still expecting the same amount, which was agreed upon - the reason for this, even though it turned out to be a mistakingly huge sum - is because we refuse to bow down to smear campaigns. It's common logic that there is a reaction to any action, you're just conveniently choosing to evidence that possible reaction because it sounds like we went in hoping to get NSO killed. Also, I don't see anybody being overly defensive about this. We $%&@ed up with regards to the sum, NSO $%&@ed up with regards to the rest, and now we're both happily bathing together. Mind passing me the sponge?

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1289282671' post='2507392'] Apparently your idea of dialog is that we should have said "Hey, you don't actually mean X, what you really mean is Y." Which is kind of absurd. You came in with a hardline demand of 5X the actual amount. Now, we could either assume that you failed counting or that you're just being dicks. I guess be happy that we assumed a basic level of competence and that you actually knew what you were requesting. [/quote] Admittedly that was a pretty big fail on our part, however, you've spent an hour decrying the unfairness of the whole thing, while all of this could've been avoided by simply asking "why this much?"

[quote name='Wyrmon' timestamp='1289282434' post='2507388'] Actually, option B would be pretty hilarious. [/quote] This thread is pretty hilarious. [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1289282460' post='2507389'] Not me; I'm in a trade circle now but that's only since moving to Red. When I was Purple, I was always able to find temp trades. Guess trades must be hard to find on Aqua That's one of RV's better points. Are you serious? Remember that this plan would only succeed if the MK members couldn't find a temp trade. If you really believe this stuff, you need to lose the tinfoil. [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=37010"]You mean, just like the GGA then right?[/url] Sorry guys. You've left NPO's territory and are now heading for the GGA. RV's posts in that thread are hilariously prophetic. Have gorgeous aircraft and cruise missiles. Well, that's interesting. [img]http://web.me.com/danflemming/cn/hardin-mk.png[/img] They did peace him out though. He's in World Federation now. So ... no permazi. That's something I guess. He offered what most alliances would take as the highest possible price right off the bat: he gave up his member. He removed a nation from his alliance and OKed you guys to have at him. Now, you may not consider members to be valuable, but most of the rest of us do. Looking forward to it. [/quote] Reading your reply, good sir, I find it hard to believe that this valuable member you're talking about here is the same "masked ghost" of earlier portrayals.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289281977' post='2507376'] I don't have the time to see what exactly is going on at this point, but I will reiterate that 64Digits stands firmly with NSO. We will not stand idle as certain groups attempt to extort our Sith friends. I hope that MK reconsiders their position on this matter. [/quote] We most definitely would've if dialog would've been employed. We don't however back down to smear campaigns. [quote name='JD Storm' timestamp='1289282047' post='2507377'] 64Digits is a most honorable alliance, unlike certain others who i won't name. [/quote] You're about as subtle as a fainting goat.

[quote name='Avenger' timestamp='1289281850' post='2507372'] What about the numerous explicit threats being tossed around by MK members in this thread? Obviously the government can control everything their members do so their threats are government-sanctioned. [/quote] Going by your logic, every person bashing us in this thread is representing their alliances will to start a war with us. [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289281888' post='2507374'] [color="#0000FF"]Yes, I do, and if you were actually interested in talking with us and not just milking whatever cash and tech you could under threat of force you wouldn't have to be dealing with this mess right now. You can try to feign innocence all you want, but this is now out in the open for all to see. MK's heavy handed second face isn't hidden anymore.[/color] [/quote] Hey RV, lets say the gas-station clerk gives you less change than he should. Do you: A: Explain that his calculation is wrong and ask for the correct change. B: Gather a crowd of friends and start shouting "SATAN" at the gas station. Pick one.

[quote name='Earth Shaker' timestamp='1289279463' post='2507329'] I just wonder why would this thread go over 20 pages now. It was clearly an extortion and yet, no surprise, They're MK. I'm just waiting to see a member of MK go rogue or something and then see what happens. Poor show MK, as always. @NSO: Should the need for not paying the reps arise just count me in for the MK #@&% [/quote] I was expecting a fair amount of delusions when I opened this, but you my good sir are quite an unexpected gift. [quote name='BlkAK47_002' timestamp='1289280035' post='2507345'] I planned to sit this one out but I am sitting here having a brain hemorrhage watching you guys claim that you weren't planning to roll NSO if they didn't pay.Your members have made it quite clear from the beginning of this spectacle that it's exactly what you planned to do if NSO refused. Since some of you want to get technical I will join in on that, you were making demands, not requests but demands. When you make a demand that means you plan to enforce those demands if they aren't met. Bansky and Tamerlane were the only ones making decent arguments on MK's behalf but claiming that you weren't planning to attack them killed whatever chance you had of salvaging this political !@#$ storm. I think you need more than semi-witty insults, "do something about it" and Smug emotes to help your case now. [/quote] No, we weren't planning on attacking them, we were planning on getting compensation. The sum was a mistake which could've been corrected by dialog, but you're making it seem like this was some sort of pretext to get at NSO, and we really don't want that, if only because it would be a terrible waste of time and effort. [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1289280768' post='2507358'] Most MK members seem to be pretty candid about their ability to use "force" being a factor in the negotiations, so I doubt the fault lies with NSO. [/quote] Let me give you a theoretical example here: A: Hi, your member wronged us, please pay us reps for the loss. B: No. A: Ok, have a good day then. Would that make more sense than A deciding to attack B? In any event, the whole thing was meant to be a discussion based on which an agreement would've been made. NSO decided to turn it into an occasion to play victim.

[quote name='bigwoody' timestamp='1286419362' post='2477669'] Not to question your logic (because I really don't know one way or the other), but aren't you guys ALWAYS drunk or of an un-sober mind pretty much all the time? [/quote] Lies and slander, sir!

If history proved one thing, it's that we know what we're doing (unless we're drunk). We'll see you gentlemen on the other side, whatever that may be. (don't get excited, it's just an expression).

[quote name='The Corrupt Teacher' timestamp='1285741351' post='2467978'] So where do you draw the line? Thats what got Athens screwed and chewed out by the world when we raided Knights of Ni and they were an inactive and worthless alliance who's only "ally" was MASH another hulking heap of nations who did nothing in this game. The Ninjas have been far more significant than Knights of Ni with 1/4 of the members. If you want to carry on that line of argument you could honestly call all alliances that aren't sanctioned not real alliances and that all of their DoWs are really excuses to go rogue as they aren't recognized by the all holy Admin. Hell in that case you could argue that NPO put down MK in NoCB because they were a potential rogue threat. What they had 150 members? Psht Pacifica had 900+ nations so who cares? I mean that's the kind of logic that is dominating this thread. Lastly I hope GOONs is fine after crushing this ALLIANCE and I wish them best of luck in dealing with this war. I actually like GOONs I just think this calling whoever we want a rogue business is ridiculous. [/quote] It really doesn't phase me one way or the other, you can call them an ALLIANCE, but their action is that of going rogue. Your examples aren't really worth getting into, they're too stretched.

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1285740938' post='2467968'] Many many GOONS challenged them to a fight. I don't see that as going rogue. They gave GOONS what GOONS asked for. [/quote] Every single rogue ever felt like they were giving whomever they declared on "what they deserve", that's a really bad argument.

[quote name='Ejayrazz' timestamp='1285740860' post='2467966'] But, what if a poor old lady fell in said hole? Just do it. It wont hurt, I promise. Though, we'd like this to stay between us and The Goons..hopefully they'll grow a pair. We declared war. [/quote] That's not fair, you know I'm a sucker for a lady in distress If one was to describe the act of going rogue, he would state that it's suicidally declaring war on somebody because you don't like them. It could have been considered on the border to being an irrational offensive war had you any prospects of getting it to escalate, but really, the only thing that would count towards this being a war would be the fact that you have a few members, and that you've announced it here. Lets compromise and go with "a rogue-like war, sort of"

[quote name='The Corrupt Teacher' timestamp='1285740601' post='2467957'] I'd say the Ninja's hardly count as a group of rogues. Not like Methrage and his band of morons. They had a protectorate and have been a community member for a significant amount of time now and have a total NS of over 500k with 10+ members and most would recognize them as an alliance. And while there reasons for war might not be good they certainly aren't completely unjustified in choosing to attack. [/quote] They went rogue on GOONS - which, mind you, I'm not trying to decry - but really, the fact that they have more than 10 members doesn't change that.