Lizardo

American/British

Growth & Prosperity!

Even by CN standards a poorly conceived and implemented feature. Does each nation get its own moon/mars or are these territories shared? Will we get a war option moon our foes?

Goals? In the dark all multicolored cats look like hamsters. Drink hot chocolate. MCXA GATO Chythog

Left handed people push religion more than right handed people? Is there a study on that? I can only say lmcfalcon12 that we have the absolute best recruiter (a natural), but you're welcome to drop in and take up the challenge.

I think we need to be less offended by any and everything we could possibly be offended by. That said I'm offended by censorship and busybodies who want to strike every word or concept that they find violates their view of right. Oh, I'm sorry, did I offend lefties? If so, eat something fattening and die. Let me add that the main point of the topic is very good and amusing. Some of the attack posts were weird. Next we'll have a Phd (piled higher and deeper) trumping (pun intended) the MBA and telling him his attitude is irrationally exuberant.

Agreed. The space thing is very disappointing. Sodium and potassium as resources so scarce they need to be pulled out of a gravity well and transported home? Rocks? Wouldn't be easier to go down to the beach and scoop this stuff up? "Wonders" are proliferating like rabbits. Why not have a random 'Wonder' generator, it'd make as much sense as what's being approved. The problem lies at the heart of CN, it's poorly fashioned, arbitrary and lacking in any form of system. The life of the 'game' is in the forums but the increasing absurdity of the game mechanics makes the necessary suspension of disbelief fabulously more difficult. Because there is no rational system there is no rational relationship of game elements. There is little scarcity or exclusive choices, the few that exist are contrived. Most choices are meaningless. Those that do have an effect are rote, and have only a quantitative influence, not a qualitative one. Integration of alliances into the game is primitive in relation to comparable games. Maybe it's time to form a work group of players and admins to map out CN2? ----- A bond market would only make sense if money made sense.

Can't wait to see what we do next.

I created the initial opening for a Viceroy and helped push it through. This was a conscious choice to preserve the community from extinction. A little humility in exchange for survival isn't such a bad thing. We're still here. Initially we had assigned to us the socially maladroit Koona, but subsequent appointees adjusted to our community and I hope they were able to depart better people for the experience. A Viceroy, no matter the intent or practice, has by its nature a harmful impact. We can measure this by GATO recruitment in the aftermath of GWIII, during the Viceroy, and the post Viceroy period. In short the period of occupation was a period of stasis compared to our former and current growth. A long period of stasis. That said, a Viceroy is no more onerous or illegal than any other post ceasefire terms whether you call them reparations, extortion or justice. The admin has adjusted the TSO to curb expropriation of OOC property, that's all. Short of that we have no laws so I don't know how anything can be labeled a crime. To be direct, any peace terms are better than none at all. But the present war is simply not yet at a place where total defeat is at hand and inescapable so it is understandable that the NPO is reluctant to take up whatever is on the table. And I'm not aware that a Viceroy is being offered. To answer the OP question, the imposition of a Viceroy is no more immoral than any other condition, relative to the 'morality' of the conflict. If the war was unjust so are any and all imposed conditions. If the war is just, then the conditions imposed must correspond to the right to make the injured party whole and may include what is necessary, and proportional, to impose a disincentive to repeat the offending acts. If the imposition of a Viceroy furthers this then this tool is principled. A positive feature of a Viceroy is that it relieves the controlled alliance of any responsibility for compliance and is reasonably good assurance of not being warred against for that duration. In regards to the contradiction of imposing a 'condemned' tactic by those who condemn it one must point out that it is no more a contradiction than when those who oppose war must engage in it to defend themselves. The originators and practitioners of a practice open the door to its use upon themselves as they have made it plain by their own actions that it is an acceptable practice in their case. A principal of symmetry. Once the asymmetry is restored to balance (hostilities ended) and conditions are generally agreed upon as to what is unacceptable, we go from there.

My intent was plainly stated. It was too obvious to be believed thus it contained its own methodology. Quite efficient. I'm completely apathetic as to the life or death of this thread. So far, no one's caught the one actual joke. I wasn't aware that I did. Well, say an idle keyboard is the devil's hand job. It's been great fun filling out your little template and I look forward to the next installment. I just don't think it's useful in any meaningful way beyond simple masturbation.

I'm quite happy to build my nation and avoid war. The possibility of war is entertaining enough, and best avoided. But I'm used to a community that creates more internal drama in a week than happens OWF in a month. However many communities can't develop internal content and thus must use war to maintain member interest. If successful (as opposed to suicidal) a pathological pattern develops where the continuous creation of entertaining content (war) depletes the ready supply of raw material (consumable enemies) and it becomes necessary to cannibalize erstwhile 'friends' to feed the masses. This is the present entertainment cycle driving CN. I've seen that there is an alternative, but that alternative requires some creativity and political tolerance. Commodities in short supply.

You have to play with someone, besides yourself, who will write the words done on a piece of paper and give it to you after you've slayed the appropriate number of imaginary critters with your wD20. Not at all, you just expected a lot of 'feel good granola' uses. The dark side calls too strongly .... What sarcasm? They'd be better off investing in kiddie porn. At most it has limited value as a after the fact tool for putting an analysis in some readable order. Try getting material from junior year philosophy instead of freshman psychobabble.

You found 'The Template of Clear Intent' playing D&D, yes? You know, this thread was actually a good idea....shame no one is taking it seriously. Wrong on both counts. What is my intent? A: To deceive, inveigle and obfuscate. How do I plan to carry out my intent? A: By posting useless feel good templates. Why does my methodology fall in line with my intent? A: The questions I provided will force a person to break down their mental processes until they are completely unresponsive. Where [might] I have done something wrong along the way? A: followed too closely some moronic template. Who [might] have I wronged to carry out my intent? A: As many as possible consistent with my intent and keeping under the radar of the CN thought police. You should feel obliged to delve as deeply into the past as you like, just don't come back with anything useful. Please don't restrain yourself just for the sake of this thread; People are attempting to allow others to understand themselves, which is likely a bad idea considering what evil lurks in the hearts of men. Now do what you will. This thread's success depends entirely on the Cyberverse now, so pray for divine intervention. Are we there yet?

Karma has stated from the beginning that its purpose was to inflict upon the NPO and its allies a visitation of their past iniquities. They seem to have held to that. Nothing else has been offered. I appreciate Francesca's argument but I should point out that contained within it is its own refutation. The fear of a resurgent and vengeful NPO is a valid consideration in the calculations of Karma. For Francesca to succeed with her argument there needs be offered a solution. The solution I propose is change the beast. As an alternative to destruction or continued war through 'reparations' reformat the alliance to something more politically responsible to its members. Having this as a principled goal, rather than simple vengeance will portend a more positive future for the whole of CN. Francesca I fear is insightful that in the pursuit of harsh treatment it may be perpetuated. Instead, lets take a chance on perpetuating higher standards. In the corporate world once a company has a large number of shareholders it must meet standards of responsibility to those shareholders. Alliances in CN, once reaching a certain size, should no longer be a personal toy. Given sufficient protections and tools members will be able to form internal political movements that will both hold leaders accountable and enhance their experience. A solution equally applicable to the victors as well. As addendum, perpetual exile should be discouraged as well. While it may be desirable to remove certain leaders from positions of abuse once their political influence has dissipated they should be allowed freedom of movement. A year at maximum.

It's disingenuous to profess innocence or decouple the members from the whole. I kinda took personally being gleefully wronged based upon a flimsy whimsy. Though to be fair about it quite a good number who are now on the Karma group were participants, enablers, or simply silent, at the time.You do bring up a valid point that alliance structures that encourage leaders to think of an alliance as a personal toy or allow the leadership to wield the alliance like a reliable sword is dangerous and this is an issue that the leaders of Karma should address rather than demanding retribution or destruction. Or we'll just see this cycle repeated. The pain of war should be applied only until a proper consensus is agreed upon. 'Reparations' is a absurd euphemism for extortion or simply a continuation of war by forced cooperation. Granted the NPO is the leading pioneer of the concept but to pursue this course when there is a viable alternative does not bring us to a better place. Your opening argument is reasonable and I hope that is something taken to heart by those who are the subject of this present popular judgment. My statements, as always, reflect solely my own opinion.

Wow, I can't help but get the impression that the longer this war lasts the harsher the terms. Yikes.

In all honesty it is not the NPO that is to blame, rather it's leadership and a culture that allowed excess. That Moo felt it was perfectly reasonable to act aggressively and take the bait offered led directly to the present circumstances. That said, if the goal of Karma is simply to destroy or cripple the NPO community that is unacceptable. It is also unlikely, at least without an open ended commitment to maintain the war. The most likely outcome, if that is indeed the goal, is a vengeful community that will rise again, quickly I think, and be the source of more conflict. My feeling is that the war must be a means to an end and that the goal should be not to harm the NPO, but to change its culture such that it is more internally responsive to its members, protects and encourages and internal political process, and renders the community less capable of perpetrating the kind of elaborate machinations that only a reliably quiescent membership allows. Short of this, and irregardless of who is in charge, we'll be back in the pre Karma situation again. Or to put it more generally, once an alliance is big enough to be a problem, we need to see that its internal processes keep it 'domesticated'. For the safety of all. Tier One Alliances are too dangerous to be the tools and property of a small group or one person. So, let's set a standard to abide by and if met, end the war. And as far as 'reparations' go, with the end of the war end all the 'reparations', including those agreed to. Karma is Karma, but let's try to be better than mere fate.

The only rational courses of action are to either continue the war in perpetuity or find terms that permanently neuter NPO's ability to exact revenge. The two best suggestions I have seen for that are to 1) Limit NPO's freedom to sign treaties, or 2) Require NPO to remain below a certain total nation strength or score ranking. And no, extremely tough terms to end the war for NPO do not violate the spirit of Karma. Tough terms for one alliance is not the same as tough terms for everyone. The message would be that the punishment fits the crime. If a beat down is ineffectual in the long term, then it is really pointless. Unless there is an effort to look at the structure of the beast and change it so that it is less likely to be a future threat. As far as perma wars go I would venture to say that the NPO has been in permanent war mode for most of its existence and is quite adept at it.

Well, with an admittedly cursory look at the war lists it seems not a few NPO nations are fighting 1 on 1 wars. If that's a reflection of a general trend and Karma war coordination this could be lot longer war than anyone expects.

You're kidding. OV is to this (Karma)war as Cheeze wiz is to a mouse trap.

You'd be the first who could if you could. But, sensing an IC topic about to be derailed by an OOC analogy, let's not go there.

True, every case is different. I think Kev will agree with that. In fact if you remove 99% of his verbiage that's exactly what he said. I think. What business is it if of the state then if she consents?

Kev's fleas confuses me as always. I think he's just expressing a frustration that the NPO leadership wasn't reined in about a year ago and that quite a few in Karma were either silent about or joining in our little kurb stomp. It's not inappropriate to note the irony of that. Except for the grammar this seems reasonable. I hope that a real alternative to to Alliance ZI or disbandment is available to the NPO focused on leadership and culture change. It is otherwise understandable that, faced with the possibility of a resurgent and vengeful NPO, the Karma alliances feel forced to destroy it. No one in our community feels any need to defend the NPO, there is no 'Stockholm Syndrome' here, GATO has always advocated the least destructive path, for everyone. We do have a (pre Karma) treaty of mutual respect which I am sure we will honor.

Gives a whole new meaning to 'Cow Patty'. I wonder, since that game tracks casualties if it should also track received nukes? That seems a pretty significant event for players.

Weirdness. Prions?