Kalasin's Blog

By that "logic" was it just NpO being ODN when you guys decided not to proceed with the WCE's fool-hearty schemes?

NpO never was part of WCE thing(believe me or not it's up to you, for me will make no difference), what we said for UPN was that we would support them whatever decision they took period.

I don’t really understand what you mean- what was ODN considering? Cancelling the UPN treaty? I don't think there was ever any serious intention of dropping them, and certainly not before the entire thing blew over. Therefore, it doesn't reflect badly on ODN.

I think Xiph meant that it reflects incredibly poorly on UPN, not ODN.

And one more time you prove what I've been saying in the first line of your excuses, one of the ODN reasons to do not support UPN decision was because your alliance thought if would be a losing war...

ODN just being ODN.

I love the double standards, D34th. Immediately after NpO’s behaviour in BiPolar, you decide that you believe in second chances. But when it comes to others’ alliances, such as my own, you refuse to move on from an event that happened over two years ago, and have attempted to colour our actions in that light ever since (even in a situation where that’s simply not appropriate.) We have worked hard towards reform.

Personally, I like Polaris, but that’s because I really accept that alliances make mistakes and that we can learn from them, and furthermore, Grub isn’t Emperor anymore. Now, the people currently in power in ODN weren’t involved in the cancellation on Polar. OsRavan was a noob at the time. Arsenal was inactive. eZe, Max Cristof and Zsandmann (who are the Secretaries of Defence, Interior and Economics respectively) joined CN months afterwards. Joracy was around at the time but I don’t believe he voted on the Polar cancellation. As for the Senate, literally none of them were even around in 2008, to the best of my knowledge, and certainly none of them cancelled on Polar.

If you’re prepared to take my word for it (which you probably aren’t, but oh well) I know with certainty that ODN wouldn’t bail on an ally like we did in 2008. I talk to ODN leadership every day. People don’t care about their 1s and 0s. Actually, we jump at the chance for war. For example, SWATland hit UPN for fun and nuked several of their lower tier nations. I hit him as soon as I found out about the situation and took two nukes before I was even 8k NS.

Without ODN’s history, in my opinion, it’d be very difficult to cast ODN as optional in this situation.

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I’ve said that OsRavan’s methods were questionable, but I’ve also said that in this case, the ends justified the means.

I love the double standards, D34th. Immediately after NpO’s behaviour in BiPolar, you decide that you believe in second chances. But when it comes to others’ alliances, such as my own, you refuse to move on from an event that happened over two years ago, and have attempted to colour our actions in that light ever since (even in a situation where that’s simply not appropriate.) We have worked hard towards reform.

Personally, I like Polaris, but that’s because I really accept that alliances make mistakes and that we can learn from them, and furthermore, Grub isn’t Emperor anymore. Now, the people currently in power in ODN weren’t involved in the cancellation on Polar. OsRavan was a noob at the time. Arsenal was inactive. eZe, Max Cristof and Zsandmann (who are the Secretaries of Defence, Interior and Economics respectively) joined CN months afterwards. Joracy was around at the time but I don’t believe he voted on the Polar cancellation. As for the Senate, literally none of them were even around in 2008, to the best of my knowledge, and certainly none of them cancelled on Polar.

If you’re prepared to take my word for it (which you probably aren’t, but oh well) I know with certainty that ODN wouldn’t bail on an ally like we did in 2008. I talk to ODN leadership every day. People don’t care about their 1s and 0s. Actually, we jump at the chance for war. For example, SWATland hit UPN for fun and nuked several of their lower tier nations. I hit him as soon as I found out about the situation and took two nukes before I was even 8k NS.

Without ODN’s history, in my opinion, it’d be very difficult to cast ODN as optional in this situation.

I’ve said that OsRavan’s methods were questionable, but I’ve also said that in this case, the ends justified the means.

Do you want to compare Polaris behavior in BiPolar war when WE FOUGHT in both sides with ODN behavior? You must be joking. And also I do believe in second changes but what make you think that ODN wronged me just one time? Or that ODN don't honored it treaties just one time? Seconds chances are ok, third and fourth... chances are not.

Actually, we jump at the chance for war.

No, you don't, this blog entry is just a prove of how you don't.

Do you want to compare Polaris behavior in BiPolar war when WE FOUGHT in both sides with ODN behavior? You must be joking. And also I do believe in second changes but what make you think that ODN wronged me just one time? Or that ODN don't honored it treaties just one time? Seconds chances are ok, third and fourth... chances are not.

Actually, yes. One doesn't need to be a coward for their actions to reflect poorly on them. Grub's actions were abominable.

Nobody gave a !@#$ about ODN's actions pre-wotc. Then the Polar cancellation happened and everyone suddenly decided that every aspect of our history demonstrated what cowards we were. But regardless, it has been over two *years* since that screwup, during which time we've done everything to reform and prove ourselves different to before. We're more deserving of a second chance now than at any other period in our history. ODN is a different alliance to what it was in 2008.

Actually, yes. One doesn't need to be a coward for their actions to reflect poorly on them. Grub's actions were abominable.

Nobody gave a !@#$ about ODN's actions pre-wotc. Then the Polar cancellation happened and everyone suddenly decided that every aspect of our history demonstrated what cowards we were. But regardless, it has been over two *years* since that screwup, during which time we've done everything to reform and prove ourselves different to before. We're more deserving of a second chance now than at any other period in our history. ODN is a different alliance to what it was in 2008.

For you Grub actions were abominable mainly because your puppet master told you so and because his actions put your pixels and your bloc pixels in danger, however I see nothing abominable in Grub's actions, of course he committed mistakes but is better commit a mistake when you are acting than be ODN run away from the battle because that's the only act that your alliance can perform. I'm pretty sure that in any moment Grub decisions were guided thinking about save Polaris pixels, he did what he did thinking in defend our ideals and our principles but here I'm talking about ideals and principles with a ODN member, sometimes I forget that you can't understand that.

Nobody gave a !@#$ about ODN's actions pre-wotc? That's what you think, if you think that ODN was a honorable alliance before betray Polaris and run away you're just naive, but I'm not the person who will teach you about ODN's past.

For you Grub actions were abominable mainly because your puppet master told you so and because his actions put your pixels and your bloc pixels in danger, however I see nothing abominable in Grub's actions, of course he committed mistakes but is better commit a mistake when you are acting than be ODN run away from the battle because that's the only act that your alliance can perform. I'm pretty sure that in any moment Grub decisions were guided thinking about save Polaris pixels, he did what he did thinking in defend our ideals and our principles but here I'm talking about ideals and principles with a ODN member, sometimes I forget that you can't understand that.

Nobody gave a !@#$ about ODN's actions pre-wotc? That's what you think, if you think that ODN was a honorable alliance before betray Polaris and run away you're just naive, but I'm not the person who will teach you about ODN's past.

Nobody tells me what to think, and your defence of your position is borderline nonsensical.

So we are done, nice.

The funniest thing about this blog entry is the ODN-caring-for-Polar part of it.

Guess that part of the plan didn't quite work out.

I'm of the opinion that the alliances whose members got called into that channel would be best served by Dec'ing UPN in order to teach them not waste peoples time with such absurdity.

The best part of this comment thread is D34th thinking that using incredibly stupid arguments to the point where no one is willing to waste breath on him means he's succeeding, ironically or not.

If anyone wants to know what OsRavan was thinking all they have to do is read it themselves: http://!@#$%*.com/vgjKLfNX Dun, dun, dun! word filter strikes again--you're all smart kiddies I'm sure you'll figure it out.

What I learned from that log is that UPN is apparently unable to track Foreign Aid with out help

(Also that there are a bunch of Peggy_Sue logs posted there.)

The best part of this comment thread is D34th thinking that using incredibly stupid arguments to the point where no one is willing to waste breath on him means he's succeeding, ironically or not.

For you they are stupid arguments and no one is willing to waste breath on it.

For me my arguments are so good that people can't argue against it.

The funniest thing about this blog entry is the ODN-caring-for-Polar part of it.

Guess that part of the plan didn't quite work out.

I suppose it doesn't make much difference now Random's in charge. I mean, I like the guy a lot, but he doesn't like us much.

This doesn't really change the facts of the matter – that instead of convincing UPN that they were being idiots, ODN went behind their back to settle the issue with GOONS. That's the kind of thing that might be acceptable for a protectorate which doesn't have the political experience to manage its own decisions, but it's very rude to a supposedly equal treaty partner. Os acted rashly and made a poor decision while panicking that it might rush to war before anyone had had a chance to make a reasoned one.

I have no doubt that his motives were pure but it was, at the very least, a major diplomatic mistake.

And one more time you prove what I've been saying in the first line of your excuses, one of the ODN reasons to do not support UPN decision was because your alliance thought if would be a losing war...

ODN just being ODN.

Ah yes. Another variation on the good ol' Optional Defense joke. It never gets old.

I take it that Polar goes out of it's way to provoke unnecessary wars for spurious reasons, especially when they know they'll lose? And apparently you endorse this logic?

Forgive me if I don't immediately recognize your brilliance in matters of military or political strategy.

-Craig